Chicago Bears Offseason 2012

[WrigleyField 22]

Have you ever seen a WR line up in a track stance?

 

Jerry Rice ran a 4.71. Sure he also had decent size, but still, he didn't play like a guy who runs a 4.7 on the football field.

 

Besides even taking into account the 40, the other measurements/times are just as important if not more so.

 

Most reports i've read has Wright with among the best WR skills in the class. And he looked explosive on the field. I'd be willing to look past tge 40 time all other things being the same.

 

 

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[Magnetic Curses]

So he's Jerry Rice now

[Magnetic Curses]

Plus everyone was slower in Rice's day.

 

But the point is that it takes an amazing receiver like Rice to prove the rule.

 

Wright is short and slow. He's already at a great disadvantage.

[WrigleyField 22]

Except anyone who saw tape raved about his speed. Did every db just go 80% against him thus making him look fast? Did they accidentally watch it in fast forward?

 

The combine results are a good way to measure your scouting against. They can help confirm what your eyes see. But when the results are dramatically different than what you see (better or worse) you have to step back and remember they will never do anything at the combine on a football field. Ever.

 

Especially if you can pinpoint the reason for the difference. Like perhaps that WR really sucks getting burst out of a modified 3 pt stance. I can live with that.

 

Plus even looking at the measurements, I want to look at them as a full package. Stack it against the shuttles and cone drills gives a much better viewpoint from which you evaluate a player's speed.

 

 

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[davell]

There's plenty of guys that play faster or slower than their 40 times. I'm much more inclined to count on game film than a straight line run, when evaluating a WR, or any other football player, for that matter. There's plenty to like about Wright. He may not be the "big" guy we're supposedly after, but some team is going to wind up very happy with him.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I'd care more about his ability to create separation. A top 40 time can help you do that, but it's not the only thing a WR can do to create space

[Tyrant]

...you have to step back and remember they will never do anything at the combine on a football field. Ever.

 

They'll never have to run fast on a football field?

[Banedon]

...you have to step back and remember they will never do anything at the combine on a football field. Ever.

 

They'll never have to run fast on a football field?

 

Not from a track stance.

[Theo]

I'm going to flip out if I see that "Jerry Rice ran a slow 40" example one more time. Thousands of WR's have been drafted since then, and people still use one single example. The 40 time may not be the "be all to end alls" but it's a very important tool to evaulating WR's. What about the countless times it's accuratley revealed a red flag? Like Mike Williams, who was a sure fire top 5 pick, till the forty raised some eyebrows about his ability to seperate at the next level. There has been plenty of times were it has accurately dropped the value of a player and vice versa where a lesser known prospect defined himself with running a good time. Please, please, stop with the Jerry Rice cliches

[Magnetic Curses]

...you have to step back and remember they will never do anything at the combine on a football field. Ever.

 

They'll never have to run fast on a football field?

 

Not from a track stance.

 

they're in a track stance for a moment, and they ALL start from the same position. it would follow that the chances are pretty good that the people who run faster out of a track stance are also faster out of any position. just like the people who run faster in underwear also run faster in pads, pads don't make fast people slow and slow people fast, that's absurd.

 

again, a 5-10 receiver that can't run under 4.6 is going to have a tough time creating separation against pro dbs that can mirror fast guys.

[jersey cubs fan]

just like the people who run faster in underwear also run faster in pads, pads don't make fast people slow and slow people fast, that's absurd.

 

The phrase "running in pads" doesn't just mean the physical constraints of wearing the football uniform, it's about running down the field with a man in front of you trying to prevent that from happening. 40 times are somewhat informative, but you are really over emphasizing them here.

[Soul]

It's one data point. There are a bunch of them.

[Magnetic Curses]

just like the people who run faster in underwear also run faster in pads, pads don't make fast people slow and slow people fast, that's absurd.

 

The phrase "running in pads" doesn't just mean the physical constraints of wearing the football uniform, it's about running down the field with a man in front of you trying to prevent that from happening. 40 times are somewhat informative, but you are really over emphasizing them here.

 

it would also follow that people who are fast aren't automatically rendered slow by having a defender in front of them, and have a considerable advantage against slower players. there are other factors at work, but speed is important, as you have said.

 

this is why they are timed in the 40. although i wouldn't really call the 40 a great measure for inclusion, as primarily all good receivers can run fast--not all fast guys are good receivers. it's a better method for exclusion, or identifying major flaws.

[jersey cubs fan]

it would also follow that people who are fast aren't automatically rendered slow by having a defender in front of them, and have a considerable advantage against slower players.

 

That would not necessarily follow at all. That's the entire point. Fast runners can end up playing slow (on a relative basis) on the football field.

[rawaction]

Kendall Wright is not a 4.61 runner. His time unofficially was 4.45. In my opinion, there's no way 4.61 is more realistic. A lot of people put more stock into hand times than they do the official computer times anyway. He will run in the 4.4s at his pro day anyway and teams won't even worry about what happened at the combine. He's fast on tape. He was extremely quick in and out of his breaks on the drills.

[Magnetic Curses]

Kendall Wright is not a 4.61 runner. His time unofficially was 4.45. In my opinion, there's no way 4.61 is more realistic. A lot of people put more stock into hand times than they do the official computer times anyway. He will run in the 4.4s at his pro day anyway and teams won't even worry about what happened at the combine. He's fast on tape. He was extremely quick in and out of his breaks on the drills.

 

 

i watched him run live, the time that came back right away was 4.61. the 4.61 appears to have stood up against further review. it was his unofficial and official time.

[Magnetic Curses]

it would also follow that people who are fast aren't automatically rendered slow by having a defender in front of them, and have a considerable advantage against slower players.

 

That would not necessarily follow at all. That's the entire point. Fast runners can end up playing slow (on a relative basis) on the football field.

 

yes it would. fast people are more likely to be fast in any situation. just like good hitters are more likely to be good hitters in clutch situations.

[WrigleyField 22]

Regarding the track stance. Someone who is trying to up their 40 time for scouts can get a noticable improvement just by practicing out of that. Unfortunately all that practice does nothing on the football field. Its just a fact some guys won't see as much of a drop off once actually in action. I wish they'd actually test out of multiple stances so you could try and make those observations. Also any speed test over 10 yards is kinda useless if its just straight line, other than perhaps trying to see who will be a good gunner on special teams.

 

And the Jerry Rice example, while overdone, is a good example if the specific reason you are defending a player is his footwork, cuz thats hor Jerry Rice was able to play faster than his 40 indicated. If its pulled out just because a guy has a slow 40, its silly. I never recall someone like Mike Williams being applauded for his footwork, whereas Wright is. Sure it doesn't mean anytging regarding Wright's success, but its still an good example.

 

 

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[Magnetic Curses]

again, all good receivers are fast receivers, not all fast receivers are good receivers.

 

there are a few exceptions over the years.

 

the 40-yard dash separates the fast receivers from the slow receivers. someone will gamble on wright in the second round, and they will be sorry for it.

[WrigleyField 22]

it would also follow that people who are fast aren't automatically rendered slow by having a defender in front of them, and have a considerable advantage against slower players.

 

That would not necessarily follow at all. That's the entire point. Fast runners can end up playing slow (on a relative basis) on the football field.

 

yes it would. fast people are more likely to be fast in any situation. just like good hitters are more likely to be good hitters in clutch situations.

Not really a great example. Hitting in the clutch is 100% the same all else being equal. Running straight line and running as it relates to football activities are pretty different. More like if you change the pitcher on the mound as far as comparisons go.

 

 

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[Magnetic Curses]

all other things being equal, a good hitter is more likely to be good against any pitcher than an average to poor hitter.

 

just like a fast receiver is more likely to be fast in any situation, like i said.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Wtf are we talking about in here

[WrigleyField 22]

Kendall Wright is a fast receiver.

 

 

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[rawaction]

Kendall Wright is not a 4.61 runner. His time unofficially was 4.45. In my opinion, there's no way 4.61 is more realistic. A lot of people put more stock into hand times than they do the official computer times anyway. He will run in the 4.4s at his pro day anyway and teams won't even worry about what happened at the combine. He's fast on tape. He was extremely quick in and out of his breaks on the drills.

 

 

i watched him run live, the time that came back right away was 4.61. the 4.61 appears to have stood up against further review. it was his unofficial and official time.

 

The first time he ran 4.45. I watched it live also.

[WrigleyField 22]

Also, i think the last time we disagreed in a thread (i dont post much) you were supposed to change your name to raging anus or something. What gives?

 

 

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