Tigers sign Prince - 9/214 - Heyman

[Pushfrog98]

uh he's black and has a tattoo, CASE CLOSED

Well, his tattoo IS on his neck...

[javy knows my name]

uh he's black and has a tattoo, CASE CLOSED

 

UNTUCK EM

[Pushfrog98]

I was told by a Cardinals fan today that they hope Stl doesn't go after Prince because "The Cardinals don't have room on their team for a thug. That's all Prince is. The Cardinals don't sign/trade for thugs. Period."

 

I laughed.

 

If you didn't call that person on his racism and tell him to go [expletive] himself, you have chosen poorly.

No, but I did say, "So, what about Felipe Lopez, Ronnie Belliard and Sidney Ponson?" I should have gone with your plan.

[CincyCubsFan]

I was told by a Cardinals fan today that they hope Stl doesn't go after Prince because "The Cardinals don't have room on their team for a thug. That's all Prince is. The Cardinals don't sign/trade for thugs. Period."

 

I laughed.

 

If you didn't call that person on his racism and tell him to go [expletive] himself, you have chosen poorly.

No, but I did say, "So, what about Felipe Lopez, Ronnie Belliard and Sidney Ponson?" I should have gone with your plan.

 

Molina???

[shnsajax]

What about angry drunks?

[UMFan83]

What about angry drunks?

 

I was gonna say. No thugs but a bunch of careless drunken idiots driving around town in a stupor.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Do non-black players ever get labeled as a thug?

 

A lot of hispanic players do.

[dew1679666265]

I think a lot of people are forgetting the Reds were also quite a bit better than the Cubs last season. I think all this regression by the Cubs competition is good, but I think the Reds are much closer right now than the Cubs are to taking advantage.

 

The Reds were 79-83, the Cubs were 71-91 last season. And the Reds didn't have the injury problems the Cubs did. The Reds can certainly be contenders in the division next year, but I wouldn't say they're "much closer" to contention than the Cubs, nor were they quite a bit better than the Cubs last season.

[NewUserName]

I think a lot of people are forgetting the Reds were also quite a bit better than the Cubs last season. I think all this regression by the Cubs competition is good, but I think the Reds are much closer right now than the Cubs are to taking advantage.

 

The Reds were 79-83, the Cubs were 71-91 last season. And the Reds didn't have the injury problems the Cubs did. The Reds can certainly be contenders in the division next year, but I wouldn't say they're "much closer" to contention than the Cubs, nor were they quite a bit better than the Cubs last season.

 

Cubs are also currently without two of their best offensive players from last year.

[Old Style]

I think a lot of people are forgetting the Reds were also quite a bit better than the Cubs last season. I think all this regression by the Cubs competition is good, but I think the Reds are much closer right now than the Cubs are to taking advantage.

 

The Reds were 79-83, the Cubs were 71-91 last season. And the Reds didn't have the injury problems the Cubs did. The Reds can certainly be contenders in the division next year, but I wouldn't say they're "much closer" to contention than the Cubs, nor were they quite a bit better than the Cubs last season.

 

Cubs are also currently without two of their best offensive players from last year.

What happened to Castro?

[Guest]

I think a lot of people are forgetting the Reds were also quite a bit better than the Cubs last season. I think all this regression by the Cubs competition is good, but I think the Reds are much closer right now than the Cubs are to taking advantage.

 

The Reds were 79-83, the Cubs were 71-91 last season. And the Reds didn't have the injury problems the Cubs did. The Reds can certainly be contenders in the division next year, but I wouldn't say they're "much closer" to contention than the Cubs, nor were they quite a bit better than the Cubs last season.

 

Cubs are also currently without two of their best offensive players from last year.

What happened to Castro?

 

"two of their"

 

 

not "their two"

[dew1679666265]

Cubs are also currently without two of their best offensive players from last year.

 

Well yeah, we've gotten much worse so far this offseason, but I thought your comment about the Reds being "quite a bit better" than the Cubs last season was pertaining to last season only.

 

Going into next season, the Cubs have much more upside to get better. We have the payroll to really improve ourselves with signings such as Prince, Darvish, etc. The Reds don't. As long as management doesn't buy into the idea that we need a 3-5 year rebuilding process, there's no reason the Reds should be much, if any, better than us next year.

[Magnetic Curses]

I think a lot of people are forgetting the Reds were also quite a bit better than the Cubs last season. I think all this regression by the Cubs competition is good, but I think the Reds are much closer right now than the Cubs are to taking advantage.

 

The Reds were 79-83, the Cubs were 71-91 last season. And the Reds didn't have the injury problems the Cubs did. The Reds can certainly be contenders in the division next year, but I wouldn't say they're "much closer" to contention than the Cubs, nor were they quite a bit better than the Cubs last season.

 

Cubs are also currently without two of their best offensive players from last year.

What happened to Castro?

 

"two of their"

 

 

not "their two"

 

in your defense both pena and ramirez were more productive at the plate than castro.

[NewUserName]

Cubs are also currently without two of their best offensive players from last year.

 

Well yeah, we've gotten much worse so far this offseason, but I thought your comment about the Reds being "quite a bit better" than the Cubs last season was pertaining to last season only.

 

Going into next season, the Cubs have much more upside to get better. We have the payroll to really improve ourselves with signings such as Prince, Darvish, etc. The Reds don't. As long as management doesn't buy into the idea that we need a 3-5 year rebuilding process, there's no reason the Reds should be much, if any, better than us next year.

 

I think the Reds will be better this year because younger players may improve and they will probably pick up some games from the Cards, Brewers, Astros and Pirates. Back to my original point, I would not do anything just because the division is perceived to be bad this year. I guess the bottom line is I wouldn't overpay for Fielder, Darvish or anyone just because the division is bad. If the Cubs can get a deal on these players that they are comfortable with long term, then yes make the deal.

[Little Slide Rooter]

To anyone who lives and dies by WAR, which I do not, over the past 4 years Prince Fielder has been on average 2 wins/season more than Carlos Pena. If Epstein and Hoyer view WAR that highly, it is conceivable that they may simply not view that as enough value to justify the contract difference between the 2 players. Obviously, Fielders much older, but if Epstein/Hoyer buy the arguement that Fielder will fall off a cliff in the next 2-5 years do to his physique they might prefer to give Pena, who will be 34 in May a 2-3 year contract. Definitely not what I want, but it's still possible. If nothing else, it would flush out the meatball population who will call for Hoyersteins heads before the season even starts.

[Magnetic Curses]

To anyone who lives and dies by WAR, which I do not, over the past 4 years Prince Fielder has been on average 2 wins/season more than Carlos Pena. If Epstein and Hoyer view WAR that highly, it is conceivable that they may simply not view that as enough value to justify the contract difference between the 2 players. Obviously, Fielders much older, but if Epstein/Hoyer buy the arguement that Fielder will fall off a cliff in the next 2-5 years do to his physique they might prefer to give Pena, who will be 34 in May a 2-3 year contract. Definitely not what I want, but it's still possible. If nothing else, it would flush out the meatball population who will call for Hoyersteins heads before the season even starts.

 

according to fangraps, fielder has been worth 3.5 more total war in 4 less seasons. he's far younger and he's far better, your logic is fucked

[Guest]

They may be scared away from paying Fielder huge money to be a ~4 win player, but they aren't going to sign a declining 2 win 1B to a multi-year deal instead.

[Guest]

 

The Reds were 79-83, the Cubs were 71-91 last season. And the Reds didn't have the injury problems the Cubs did. The Reds can certainly be contenders in the division next year, but I wouldn't say they're "much closer" to contention than the Cubs, nor were they quite a bit better than the Cubs last season.

 

Cubs are also currently without two of their best offensive players from last year.

What happened to Castro?

 

"two of their"

 

 

not "their two"

 

in your defense both pena and ramirez were more productive at the plate than castro.

 

NewUserName's defense, that is.

[dew1679666265]

I think the Reds will be better this year because younger players may improve and they will probably pick up some games from the Cards, Brewers, Astros and Pirates. Back to my original point, I would not do anything just because the division is perceived to be bad this year. I guess the bottom line is I wouldn't overpay for Fielder, Darvish or anyone just because the division is bad. If the Cubs can get a deal on these players that they are comfortable with long term, then yes make the deal.

 

Are there really that many young players on the Reds that can get significantly better? There could be a few marginal improvements (which would still make them a better team), but Votto, Cueto, Leake, Bruce have all been about as good as they're going to get at this point - with maybe Cueto getting a little better. Alonso is stuck on the bench until Votto is traded, Dusty probably broke Volquez, Bailey's an enigma (hard to tell what he'll do going forward), and I'm not much of a Drew Stubbs fan.

 

They could get a big boost from moving Chapman to the rotation, but I'm not sure Dusty's open to doing that and even if he does, there's the concern over how big a jump he can make in innings. Travis Wood could also help them out if he gets better. We keep hearing about how the Reds are going to be really good when all these great young players develop, but that's been the refrain for about 5 years now. This could be the year they do it, but I still don't see them being a good bet to be better than mid-80s in wins and I think that's the area the Cubs can reach if they don't go with the 3-5 year rebuilding plan.

 

As for the pursuit of Prince/Darvish, I think the weak division should make the Cubs a bit more aggressive in pursuing both. They shouldn't dole out silly contracts, but I think they should be a bit more open to overpaying a little than they may have been before. For instance, if Theo/Hoyer feel comfortable going 5 years with Prince, but it'll take 6 to get him to sign, I think the weak division and the very real shot to win now should get them to do that. But if Theo/Hoyer feel comfortable going 5 years and Prince is looking for 8, I don't think you do that. Same with Darvish. I would go a little past my comfort level because of the weak division, but I wouldn't give out silly contracts.

[dew1679666265]

according to fangraps, fielder has been worth 3.5 more total war in 4 less seasons. he's far younger and he's far better, your logic is [expletive]

 

I do agree with WSR that in signing Prince you're not signing the complete elite player you'd like to be. That's why I wanted Pujols more - he's a much more complete player (offense, defense, baserunning all included) than Prince. However, this team has its infield defense pretty well settled at its currently filled positions (Stewart is above average, Starlin will get better, and Barney is really good), but it needs elite offense. Prince will provide elite offense unlike any other free agent currently out there and that's why the Cubs should pursue him.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Obviously, Fielder is most peoples top choice. However, buyond that people seem to be lined up to shoot down every other option. It's not like there's a ton of good, realsitic options.

 

FA:

Carlos Pena

Casey Kotchman

Derrek Lee

Luke Scott (if non tendered)

 

Trade(somewhat realistic)

James Loney

Mike Trumbo

Kendry Morales

Adam Dunn (very risky but could be had)

 

Trade (less realistic)

Yonder Alonso

Billy Butler (very expensive, not necessarily on the block)

Justin Smoak (only if the Mariners sign Fielder)

Gaby Sanchez (only if the Marlins sign Fielder)

Mitch Moreland (only if Rangers sign Fielder)

 

What we have:

Brian LaHair

Jeff Baker

[Cubs Fan Dan]

Obviously, Fielder is most peoples top choice. However, buyond that people seem to be lined up to shoot down every other option. It's not like there's a ton of good, realsitic options.

 

FA:

Carlos Pena

Casey Kotchman

Derrek Lee

Luke Scott (if non tendered)

 

Trade(somewhat realistic)

James Loney

Mike Trumbo

Kendry Morales

Adam Dunn (very risky but could be had)

 

Trade (less realistic)

Yonder Alonso

Billy Butler (very expensive, not necessarily on the block)

Justin Smoak (only if the Mariners sign Fielder)

Gaby Sanchez (only if the Marlins sign Fielder)

Mitch Moreland (only if Rangers sign Fielder)

 

What we have:

Brian LaHair

Jeff Baker

 

I would have interest in the bold ones, otherwise let LaHair and Ridling battle it out (yikes).

[Butterscup1679666578]

nothing all that new

 

JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman

cubs definitely in mix for prince, who at 27 makes more sense than pujols for them. needs: 1B, LH power, cleanup hitter.

 

JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman

#mariners are trying for #prince, as well. blue jays and rangers among teams showing interest and thinking hard about it.

[Backtobanks]

I think the Reds will be better this year because younger players may improve and they will probably pick up some games from the Cards, Brewers, Astros and Pirates. Back to my original point, I would not do anything just because the division is perceived to be bad this year. I guess the bottom line is I wouldn't overpay for Fielder, Darvish or anyone just because the division is bad. If the Cubs can get a deal on these players that they are comfortable with long term, then yes make the deal.

 

Are there really that many young players on the Reds that can get significantly better? There could be a few marginal improvements (which would still make them a better team), but Votto, Cueto, Leake, Bruce have all been about as good as they're going to get at this point - with maybe Cueto getting a little better. Alonso is stuck on the bench until Votto is traded, Dusty probably broke Volquez, Bailey's an enigma (hard to tell what he'll do going forward), and I'm not much of a Drew Stubbs fan.

 

They could get a big boost from moving Chapman to the rotation, but I'm not sure Dusty's open to doing that and even if he does, there's the concern over how big a jump he can make in innings. Travis Wood could also help them out if he gets better. We keep hearing about how the Reds are going to be really good when all these great young players develop, but that's been the refrain for about 5 years now. This could be the year they do it, but I still don't see them being a good bet to be better than mid-80s in wins and I think that's the area the Cubs can reach if they don't go with the 3-5 year rebuilding plan.

 

As for the pursuit of Prince/Darvish, I think the weak division should make the Cubs a bit more aggressive in pursuing both. They shouldn't dole out silly contracts, but I think they should be a bit more open to overpaying a little than they may have been before. For instance, if Theo/Hoyer feel comfortable going 5 years with Prince, but it'll take 6 to get him to sign, I think the weak division and the very real shot to win now should get them to do that. But if Theo/Hoyer feel comfortable going 5 years and Prince is looking for 8, I don't think you do that. Same with Darvish. I would go a little past my comfort level because of the weak division, but I wouldn't give out silly contracts.

 

Let's be honest, any "name" FA for the next 5 years is going to be overpaid. Theo/Hoyer need to decide who their priorities are in this year's crop of FAs and pay what they have to pay (without going into Soriano country) to begin the process. Finding value in a player is only going to build a winner if all of our prospects develop into stars (not likely).

[Little Slide Rooter]

nothing all that new

 

JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman

cubs definitely in mix for prince, who at 27 makes more sense than pujols for them. needs: 1B, LH power, cleanup hitter.

 

JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman

#mariners are trying for #prince, as well. blue jays and rangers among teams showing interest and thinking hard about it.

 

The corresponding Cubs have no money/interest in Fielder post should be materializing within the hour.