CONFIRMED: CUBS GET SOLER!!! 9yrs/30 mill

[El Duderino]

Kevin Goldstein ‏@Kevin_Goldstein Source indicates that Jorge Soler's agent, Barry Praver, has requested that offers for his client be submitted by Thursday, June 7.

[Backtobanks]

If things work out right, Baez or Soler could either one, or both, be a top 25 type guy next year. Szczur wasn't mentioned, but is fairly likely to be a top 100 guy. Vitters and Lake are wild cards obviously, that could potentially work themselves into the top 100ish area . I'm not mentioning Brett, because in the end, I expect him to lose his rookie status before the end of the season.

 

However, along with Baez and Szczur(hopefully Soler), you've got the 6th pick moving into the top 100, probably 50, possibly even higher. You also have the 43, 56, 67, and 101 picks out there, that I'll be shocked if we don't get at least one more 1st round talent that fell for whatever reasons.

 

Plus, as we're going over in a different thread, you have Dempster and Garza returns to possibly factor in. Not to mention, we're absolutely stacked in Boise this year and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to get someone from there put onto the national scene either.

 

If we sign Soler and trade Demp and Garza, there's no doubt in my mind that we're a top 7-10 system heading into next season.

 

You're not mentioning the reason Theo has been given the right to start over is he probably sat down with Tom and calmly explained that if you looked at every single bit of talent within the organization and compared it to other teams, it'd fall in the bottom 5 of baseball. This being the case and having more resources than probably about all of baseball, other than 5 teams or so, is why Jim Hendry was not a good GM. In fact, he's probably worse than I had even thought.

 

The part in blue is a post from you in another topic. Everybody you mentioned in the first part was drafted by Hendry except Soler. I'm not saying our system is great, but looking at your post, it certainly doesn't sound like "it'd fall in the bottom 5 of baseball".

[Guest]

With all those other additions, if the return on trading Garza doesn't put us in the top 2 or 3, we shouldn't be trading him.

 

Not sure about that... Where are the Cubs at right now? mid-teens? That's a HUGE jump to get to top 3. It's possible, but it means everything gotta go Cubs way really (Baez/Szczur/Lake/etc... all hit for the rest of the season/signing Soler/Dempster traded for a legit top 10 guy (after everything is done)/Garza traded to Blue Jays/Diamondbacks for pitching prospects/a couple pitchers stepped up/having a great draft/etc).

 

If that happens, then I can see Cubs having top 3 system...

 

What I said assumes Soler is signed and Dempster is traded for a top 10 (organizational of course) guy...plus this year's draft going well. I was responding to davell's post before mine. If Garza doesn't net a return that puts us at least top 5 after all of that, I just don't think it's worth trading him.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Kevin Goldstein ‏@Kevin_Goldstein Source indicates that Jorge Soler's agent, Barry Praver, has requested that offers for his client be submitted by Thursday, June 7.

 

Looks like it's going to be a week full of frantically F5ing MLBTR and checking for Twitter updates every few minutes. Remember the days before smart phones when you had to actually make it to the computer for such updates? It worse yet, before that when we had to keep a close watch on the ticker on Sports Center.

[Guest]

If things work out right, Baez or Soler could either one, or both, be a top 25 type guy next year. Szczur wasn't mentioned, but is fairly likely to be a top 100 guy. Vitters and Lake are wild cards obviously, that could potentially work themselves into the top 100ish area . I'm not mentioning Brett, because in the end, I expect him to lose his rookie status before the end of the season.

 

However, along with Baez and Szczur(hopefully Soler), you've got the 6th pick moving into the top 100, probably 50, possibly even higher. You also have the 43, 56, 67, and 101 picks out there, that I'll be shocked if we don't get at least one more 1st round talent that fell for whatever reasons.

 

Plus, as we're going over in a different thread, you have Dempster and Garza returns to possibly factor in. Not to mention, we're absolutely stacked in Boise this year and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to get someone from there put onto the national scene either.

 

If we sign Soler and trade Demp and Garza, there's no doubt in my mind that we're a top 7-10 system heading into next season.

 

You're right, of course. I'm being super nit-picky, especially when I'm complaining about the lack of top-25 prospects in an organization that would (in this discussion) have a pair of 22-year-olds in the majors who would be no-doubt top-25 if they were still in the minors.

 

The only place I'd quibble is that I think that's a bit too optimistic on Baez and Soler. Both have quite a bit to prove before they become top-25 guys.

 

Soler was viewed as a top 40 prospect by both Callis and Goldstein before this season. With recent promotions, it's not a stretch to think he's already a borderline top 25 prospect.

[Little Slide Rooter]

So with the bulk of Kerry Wood's 3 mil 2012 salary off the books, I hope that goes toward a Soler bid. Also anything we saved on Marlon Byrd. This is where over bidding is OK by me. I believe the earlier reported offer we may or may not have made was 22-27 mil over 5 years?? Well I'm all for 30+ onsidering our current payroll. If it means we don't drop a million each on more Reed Johnsons, Rodrigo Lopezes, and Manny Corpases next winter, then so be it. Like 'Ole Gil, we need this.

[davell]

If things work out right, Baez or Soler could either one, or both, be a top 25 type guy next year. Szczur wasn't mentioned, but is fairly likely to be a top 100 guy. Vitters and Lake are wild cards obviously, that could potentially work themselves into the top 100ish area . I'm not mentioning Brett, because in the end, I expect him to lose his rookie status before the end of the season.

 

However, along with Baez and Szczur(hopefully Soler), you've got the 6th pick moving into the top 100, probably 50, possibly even higher. You also have the 43, 56, 67, and 101 picks out there, that I'll be shocked if we don't get at least one more 1st round talent that fell for whatever reasons.

 

Plus, as we're going over in a different thread, you have Dempster and Garza returns to possibly factor in. Not to mention, we're absolutely stacked in Boise this year and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to get someone from there put onto the national scene either.

 

If we sign Soler and trade Demp and Garza, there's no doubt in my mind that we're a top 7-10 system heading into next season.

 

You're not mentioning the reason Theo has been given the right to start over is he probably sat down with Tom and calmly explained that if you looked at every single bit of talent within the organization and compared it to other teams, it'd fall in the bottom 5 of baseball. This being the case and having more resources than probably about all of baseball, other than 5 teams or so, is why Jim Hendry was not a good GM. In fact, he's probably worse than I had even thought.

 

The part in blue is a post from you in another topic. Everybody you mentioned in the first part was drafted by Hendry except Soler. I'm not saying our system is great, but looking at your post, it certainly doesn't sound like "it'd fall in the bottom 5 of baseball".

 

 

Good lord, not even sure where to begin. It's the ENTIRETY of the organization. Not JUST the system. And yes, I think totally we are in the bottom 5 altogether, before Theo got here. Jim provided Brett, Baez, and Szczur, with Lake and Vitters. He did NOT give us the supplemental round picks(because it's not known whether Pena or Aramis would still be here or not). Yes, you could say he "gave" us the 6th pick this season, because of how shitty a major league team he threw out there last year with a gigantic payroll attached. Yes, he gave us Dempster and Garza, 2 of the very best pieces we have, that "help" us get to where we are, which has literally been NO WHERE. Yes, I do think we'll have a top 10 minor league system at the end of this season. But when I say that, we're also going to have one of the 2-3 worst major league teams in the game. And I totally see the reasoning of Theo to do it this way, whether you can or not. If we have enough major pieces in place to warrant spending bigtime money, we'll do so. If not, we'll grow the system more and re-evaluate again. Hendry never re-evaluated ANYTHING. He threw money at problems, changed the team 'theme" every year and literally hoped for the best, while running us as an equivalent of a mom and pop shop. Theo looks at a bigger picture, period. The advances the Cubs have made statistically, growing their scouting department, building up the front office.....These things take time and they didn't have to undo a Hendry mess here, they just had to start from scratch basically.

 

I know you have no idea how to look at an organization from top to bottom, much less put weight on it, but Theo took over a team with a very average minor league system and a very below average major league team, with one of the smallest scouting bases and front offices around. You put those things together, it doesn't equal the UTOPIA of what you think Hendry left the Cubs with. And whether you agree with Theo's way of doing things or not, if you can't look at his track record versus Hendry's and see which one you should be happy with as far as running our team goes, then I have no clue what to even bother saying.

[Vanilla Ice]

If we sell off almost all of our major league talent, sign a top 25-50 prospect, and have a good draft, then hey we could be in the top third of baseball in one part of our organization!

[Bryants Disco Ball]

If things work out right, Baez or Soler could either one, or both, be a top 25 type guy next year. Szczur wasn't mentioned, but is fairly likely to be a top 100 guy. Vitters and Lake are wild cards obviously, that could potentially work themselves into the top 100ish area . I'm not mentioning Brett, because in the end, I expect him to lose his rookie status before the end of the season.

 

However, along with Baez and Szczur(hopefully Soler), you've got the 6th pick moving into the top 100, probably 50, possibly even higher. You also have the 43, 56, 67, and 101 picks out there, that I'll be shocked if we don't get at least one more 1st round talent that fell for whatever reasons.

 

Plus, as we're going over in a different thread, you have Dempster and Garza returns to possibly factor in. Not to mention, we're absolutely stacked in Boise this year and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to get someone from there put onto the national scene either.

 

If we sign Soler and trade Demp and Garza, there's no doubt in my mind that we're a top 7-10 system heading into next season.

 

You're not mentioning the reason Theo has been given the right to start over is he probably sat down with Tom and calmly explained that if you looked at every single bit of talent within the organization and compared it to other teams, it'd fall in the bottom 5 of baseball. This being the case and having more resources than probably about all of baseball, other than 5 teams or so, is why Jim Hendry was not a good GM. In fact, he's probably worse than I had even thought.

 

The part in blue is a post from you in another topic. Everybody you mentioned in the first part was drafted by Hendry except Soler. I'm not saying our system is great, but looking at your post, it certainly doesn't sound like "it'd fall in the bottom 5 of baseball".

 

 

Good lord, not even sure where to begin. It's the ENTIRETY of the organization. Not JUST the system. And yes, I think totally we are in the bottom 5 altogether, before Theo got here. Jim provided Brett, Baez, and Szczur, with Lake and Vitters. He did NOT give us the supplemental round picks(because it's not known whether Pena or Aramis would still be here or not). Yes, you could say he "gave" us the 6th pick this season, because of how [expletive] a major league team he threw out there last year with a gigantic payroll attached. Yes, he gave us Dempster and Garza, 2 of the very best pieces we have, that "help" us get to where we are, which has literally been NO WHERE. Yes, I do think we'll have a top 10 minor league system at the end of this season. But when I say that, we're also going to have one of the 2-3 worst major league teams in the game. And I totally see the reasoning of Theo to do it this way, whether you can or not. If we have enough major pieces in place to warrant spending bigtime money, we'll do so. If not, we'll grow the system more and re-evaluate again. Hendry never re-evaluated ANYTHING. He threw money at problems, changed the team 'theme" every year and literally hoped for the best, while running us as an equivalent of a mom and pop shop. Theo looks at a bigger picture, period. The advances the Cubs have made statistically, growing their scouting department, building up the front office.....These things take time and they didn't have to undo a Hendry mess here, they just had to start from scratch basically.

 

I know you have no idea how to look at an organization from top to bottom, much less put weight on it, but Theo took over a team with a very average minor league system and a very below average major league team, with one of the smallest scouting bases and front offices around. You put those things together, it doesn't equal the UTOPIA of what you think Hendry left the Cubs with. And whether you agree with Theo's way of doing things or not, if you can't look at his track record versus Hendry's and see which one you should be happy with as far as running our team goes, then I have no clue what to even bother saying.

 

 

I enjoyed this response. Totally, 100 percent agree with it, and I didn't have to spend the time writing it or trying to convey it as well as you did.

[davell]

Actually 2 of the 3 parts would be covered, with the FO adding tons of things to the mix. You just let the system dictate at that point when it's time to spend big. Could be next year, if things fall right, for all we know, depending on who's left standing after the deadline.

[Vanilla Ice]

Actually 2 of the 3 parts would be covered, with the FO adding tons of things to the mix. You just let the system dictate at that point when it's time to spend big. Could be next year, if things fall right, for all we know, depending on who's left standing after the deadline.

If this was directed at me, I might not have made my point clear. I was trying to show backtobanks that just because we could have a top 10 minor league system by the end of this year doesn't mean we didn't have a bottom 5 organizational talent at the end of last year. I actually agree with pretty much everything you said.

[davell]

Actually 2 of the 3 parts would be covered, with the FO adding tons of things to the mix. You just let the system dictate at that point when it's time to spend big. Could be next year, if things fall right, for all we know, depending on who's left standing after the deadline.

If this was directed at me, I might not have made my point clear. I was trying to show backtobanks that just because we could have a top 10 minor league system by the end of this year doesn't mean we didn't have a bottom 5 organizational talent at the end of last year. I actually agree with pretty much everything you said.

 

Oh, I took it you agreed actually. Juast wanted to state it for B2B, to try and keep from the expected response of sell off now and go for it again!!!!!!

[Backtobanks]

If things work out right, Baez or Soler could either one, or both, be a top 25 type guy next year. Szczur wasn't mentioned, but is fairly likely to be a top 100 guy. Vitters and Lake are wild cards obviously, that could potentially work themselves into the top 100ish area . I'm not mentioning Brett, because in the end, I expect him to lose his rookie status before the end of the season.

 

However, along with Baez and Szczur(hopefully Soler), you've got the 6th pick moving into the top 100, probably 50, possibly even higher. You also have the 43, 56, 67, and 101 picks out there, that I'll be shocked if we don't get at least one more 1st round talent that fell for whatever reasons.

 

Plus, as we're going over in a different thread, you have Dempster and Garza returns to possibly factor in. Not to mention, we're absolutely stacked in Boise this year and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to get someone from there put onto the national scene either.

 

If we sign Soler and trade Demp and Garza, there's no doubt in my mind that we're a top 7-10 system heading into next season.

 

You're not mentioning the reason Theo has been given the right to start over is he probably sat down with Tom and calmly explained that if you looked at every single bit of talent within the organization and compared it to other teams, it'd fall in the bottom 5 of baseball. This being the case and having more resources than probably about all of baseball, other than 5 teams or so, is why Jim Hendry was not a good GM. In fact, he's probably worse than I had even thought.

 

The part in blue is a post from you in another topic. Everybody you mentioned in the first part was drafted by Hendry except Soler. I'm not saying our system is great, but looking at your post, it certainly doesn't sound like "it'd fall in the bottom 5 of baseball".

 

 

Good lord, not even sure where to begin. It's the ENTIRETY of the organization. Not JUST the system. And yes, I think totally we are in the bottom 5 altogether, before Theo got here. Jim provided Brett, Baez, and Szczur, with Lake and Vitters. He did NOT give us the supplemental round picks(because it's not known whether Pena or Aramis would still be here or not). Yes, you could say he "gave" us the 6th pick this season, because of how [expletive] a major league team he threw out there last year with a gigantic payroll attached. Yes, he gave us Dempster and Garza, 2 of the very best pieces we have, that "help" us get to where we are, which has literally been NO WHERE. Yes, I do think we'll have a top 10 minor league system at the end of this season. But when I say that, we're also going to have one of the 2-3 worst major league teams in the game. And I totally see the reasoning of Theo to do it this way, whether you can or not. If we have enough major pieces in place to warrant spending bigtime money, we'll do so. If not, we'll grow the system more and re-evaluate again. Hendry never re-evaluated ANYTHING. He threw money at problems, changed the team 'theme" every year and literally hoped for the best, while running us as an equivalent of a mom and pop shop. Theo looks at a bigger picture, period. The advances the Cubs have made statistically, growing their scouting department, building up the front office.....These things take time and they didn't have to undo a Hendry mess here, they just had to start from scratch basically.

 

I know you have no idea how to look at an organization from top to bottom, much less put weight on it, but Theo took over a team with a very average minor league system and a very below average major league team, with one of the smallest scouting bases and front offices around. You put those things together, it doesn't equal the UTOPIA of what you think Hendry left the Cubs with. And whether you agree with Theo's way of doing things or not, if you can't look at his track record versus Hendry's and see which one you should be happy with as far as running our team goes, then I have no clue what to even bother saying.

 

My point all along has been that Hendry had strengths and weaknesses that I acknowledged, but many posters refuse to acknowledge his strengths. NEVER did I post or infer that the organization that Hendry left was a "UTOPIA". I do have confidence that Theo will improve the organization, but I do have problems with the timeline for putting a contending team on the field. Taking a crappy 2011 team and making them crappier for 2012 and 2013 so that we can draft or trade for prospects that might make it to the ML level in 2014 or 2015 is the desired method for a small market team, not a large market team. As for the track record, Theo took a very good big-market team (89 win avg for previous 5 seasons) to an excellent team (93 win avg over 9 seasons). He has no experience taking a bad, "bottom 5" organization and rebuilding them into a World Series Champion.

[Guest]

 

My point all along has been that Hendry had strengths and weaknesses that I acknowledged, but many posters refuse to acknowledge his strengths. NEVER did I post or infer that the organization that Hendry left was a "UTOPIA". I do have confidence that Theo will improve the organization, but I do have problems with the timeline for putting a contending team on the field. Taking a crappy 2011 team and making them crappier for 2012 and 2013 so that we can draft or trade for prospects that might make it to the ML level in 2014 or 2015 is the desired method for a small market team, not a large market team. As for the track record, Theo took a very good big-market team (89 win avg for previous 5 seasons) to an excellent team (93 win avg over 9 seasons). He has no experience taking a bad, "bottom 5" organization and rebuilding them into a World Series Champion.

 

What does "acknowledging his strengths" accomplish if the fact is that he was a bad GM despite those strengths?

[Guest]

My point all along has been that Hendry had strengths and weaknesses that I acknowledged, but many posters refuse to acknowledge his strengths. NEVER did I post or infer that the organization that Hendry left was a "UTOPIA". I do have confidence that Theo will improve the organization, but I do have problems with the timeline for putting a contending team on the field. Taking a crappy 2011 team and making them crappier for 2012 and 2013 so that we can draft or trade for prospects that might make it to the ML level in 2014 or 2015 is the desired method for a small market team, not a large market team. As for the track record, Theo took a very good big-market team (89 win avg for previous 5 seasons) to an excellent team (93 win avg over 9 seasons). He has no experience taking a bad, "bottom 5" organization and rebuilding them into a World Series Champion.

Hendry had definite strengths. The net of it was that he was a below average GM, though.

 

You have an interesting way of minimizing Theo, though. I could also say that he worked with resources similar to what he has with the Cubs and fielded a team that was one of the two best teams in baseball during his nine year tenure.

[Sammy Sofa]

My point all along has been that Hendry had strengths and weaknesses that I acknowledged, but many posters refuse to acknowledge his strengths.

 

Why is this even something you care about?

[Backtobanks]

My point all along has been that Hendry had strengths and weaknesses that I acknowledged, but many posters refuse to acknowledge his strengths. NEVER did I post or infer that the organization that Hendry left was a "UTOPIA". I do have confidence that Theo will improve the organization, but I do have problems with the timeline for putting a contending team on the field. Taking a crappy 2011 team and making them crappier for 2012 and 2013 so that we can draft or trade for prospects that might make it to the ML level in 2014 or 2015 is the desired method for a small market team, not a large market team. As for the track record, Theo took a very good big-market team (89 win avg for previous 5 seasons) to an excellent team (93 win avg over 9 seasons). He has no experience taking a bad, "bottom 5" organization and rebuilding them into a World Series Champion.

Hendry had definite strengths. The net of it was that he was a below average GM, though.

 

You have an interesting way of minimizing Theo, though. I could also say that he worked with resources similar to what he has with the Cubs and fielded a team that was one of the two best teams in baseball during his nine year tenure.

 

I'm not minimizing Theo and I will admit that what he did during his 9 year tenure with the RS was impressive. My point is that he started with a very good team and made them better. Davell posted that Hendry left the Cubs with a "bottom 5" organization and very little talent at the major league or minor league level. If that is true, Theo has no experience in rebuilding this kind of team. As I posted before, I think Theo will improve the organization from the top to the bottom. I do think times have changed with the new CBA and I'm not sure that Theo will be able to turn the Cubs into a perennial 95-win juggernaut like many posters do.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Who gives a [expletive] about jim Henry in the Jorge soler thread

[davell]

With the financial resources available to us, it's nothing less than a failure not to be considered the best, year in and year out, in this division, after starting with a clean slate. Not a 2 year back to back postseason appearance, constantly getting there year after year. This group wanted to survey the landscape before jumping in headfirst and they're identifying even now who's going to be here longterm. yeah, I'd rather be on the total polar opposite end right now, but I'd much rather be where we are right now, than looking like a .500ish type team with an aging roster and little flexibility, which in my mind is where we'd be if Hendry was still here.

[javy knows my name]

Who gives a [expletive] about jim Henry in the Jorge soler thread

 

I'm profoundly sad that this garbage is happening here.

 

Now that we've FREED JORGE SOLER, let's keep his thread from LOOKING LIKE A TOILET

[SouthSideRyan]

Who gives a [expletive] about jim Henry in the Jorge soler thread

 

BacktoHendry gives a [expletive] about Jim Hendry in EVERY thread

Edited June 2, 2012 by SouthSideRyan

[minnesotacubsfan]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-cubs-pursuit-of-soler-official-20120602,0,1642929.story

 

didnt see this posted yet

 

"Pretty strong," Sveum said. "He's pretty impressive on video. I don't know if he was as impressive as that kid the other day."

 

Sveum was referring to Carlos Correa, the Puerto Rican shortstop the Cubs who may be available with their No. 6 pick in Monday's draft.

[javy knows my name]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-cubs-pursuit-of-soler-official-20120602,0,1642929.story

 

didnt see this posted yet

 

"Pretty strong," Sveum said. "He's pretty impressive on video. I don't know if he was as impressive as that kid the other day."

 

Sveum was referring to Carlos Correa, the Puerto Rican shortstop the Cubs who may be available with their No. 6 pick in Monday's draft.

 

That article was not written or edited good.

[SouthSideRyan]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-cubs-pursuit-of-soler-official-20120602,0,1642929.story

 

didnt see this posted yet

 

"Pretty strong," Sveum said. "He's pretty impressive on video. I don't know if he was as impressive as that kid the other day."

 

Sveum was referring to Carlos Correa, the Puerto Rican shortstop the Cubs who may be available with their No. 6 pick in Monday's draft.

 

That article was not written or edited good.

 

Well.

[Guest]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-cubs-pursuit-of-soler-official-20120602,0,1642929.story

 

didnt see this posted yet

 

"Pretty strong," Sveum said. "He's pretty impressive on video. I don't know if he was as impressive as that kid the other day."

 

Sveum was referring to Carlos Correa, the Puerto Rican shortstop the Cubs who may be available with their No. 6 pick in Monday's draft.

 

Yeah, Sveum is in love with Correa.