Joe Paterno

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Just so we're clear, has the idea that the McQueary watered down his story to Paterno been reported as fact anywhere? Or is it just a construct created by people to defend Paterno?

[jersey cubs fan]

http://deadspin.com/5857440/alleged-victims-mother-jerry-sandusky-admitted-it-to-my-face-13-years-ago

 

deadspin has to have about a dozen or more entries on this issue.

 

The Patriot-News of Harrisburg (PennLive.com) has done yeoman's work covering the Penn State scandal. Sara Granim, a reporter for the paper, has been the most dogged in ferreting out details, and her story today managed to get comments from the mothers of two of Jerry Sandusky's alleged sexual assault victims. Both women are understandably outraged at Penn State officials.

 

A few weeks before her son broke down and confessed to a principal at Central Mountain High School in Clinton County that he was being molested by Jerry Sandusky—a volunteer football coach at his high school—his mother began to suspect something was wrong.

 

First, it was because her son was acting out. When she grounded him, she said Sandusky demanded he be able to "take care of it."

 

"I said, ‘No way, he's my kid,'" she said.

 

Then, her son began asking her about an online database for "sex weirdos."

 

"You don't want to just accuse people of that," the mother said. "I called the school principal and the guidance counselor and said, if nothing else, he's taking my son out of classes. He's leaving the school with him. ... So I asked them to call him into the office and ask [my son] how he felt.

 

"They did call him to the office that day and I remember [the principal] was in tears and she said, ‘You need to come here right away.'"

 

Her son, then 15, broke down and told them what happened.

[jersey cubs fan]

Another bizarre twist: Ray Gricar, the Centre County district attorney at the time of the 1998 investigation into Victim 6's allegations, has been missing since 2005 and was declared legally dead in July of this year. We may never know why Gricar did not press charges against Sandusky, despite Sandusky's admissions—per the grand jury report—that he had showered naked with the boy and hugged him. The hard drive from Gricar's computer turned up on the banks of the Susquehanna River six months after his disappearance, according to this story Granim wrote three years ago, when she was still at the State College, Pa.-based Centre County Daily Times. Whatever was on that hard drive will forever be the subject of speculation now.

[TruffleShuffle]

Somewhere along the line, it got changed from a graphic description of anal rape to "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature." There are two people who could have made that change. Paterno clearly had means and motive, so it's not reckless to speculate whether he was the one who made the change.

 

yes, the AD made that change. you seem to be ignoring the fact that the AD sat down and conducted an in depth interview with the grad assistant, which is the most important part of this. you're acting like they did pass-it-down-the-line and by the time it got to the president, sandusky was just horsing around in the shower with a kid. curley (the athletic director) directly interviewed mcqueary. the grand jury's account is based on what mcqueary told them and what mcqueary testified to telling curley. the reason they indicted curley for perjury is obviously that his testimony contradicted that of mcqueary, and they did not find curley's repeated claims credible (that mcqueary had just said they were horsing around in the shower).

[jersey cubs fan]

Just so we're clear, has the idea that the McQueary watered down his story to Paterno been reported as fact anywhere? Or is it just a construct created by people to defend Paterno?

 

The only place I've heard any indiation of that theory is from truffle.

[erik316wttn]

Another bizarre twist: Ray Gricar, the Centre County district attorney at the time of the 1998 investigation into Victim 6's allegations, has been missing since 2005 and was declared legally dead in July of this year. We may never know why Gricar did not press charges against Sandusky, despite Sandusky's admissions—per the grand jury report—that he had showered naked with the boy and hugged him. The hard drive from Gricar's computer turned up on the banks of the Susquehanna River six months after his disappearance, according to this story Granim wrote three years ago, when she was still at the State College, Pa.-based Centre County Daily Times. Whatever was on that hard drive will forever be the subject of speculation now.

 

And now it reaches into possible murder.

[jersey cubs fan]

Another bizarre twist: Ray Gricar, the Centre County district attorney at the time of the 1998 investigation into Victim 6's allegations, has been missing since 2005 and was declared legally dead in July of this year. We may never know why Gricar did not press charges against Sandusky, despite Sandusky's admissions—per the grand jury report—that he had showered naked with the boy and hugged him. The hard drive from Gricar's computer turned up on the banks of the Susquehanna River six months after his disappearance, according to this story Granim wrote three years ago, when she was still at the State College, Pa.-based Centre County Daily Times. Whatever was on that hard drive will forever be the subject of speculation now.

 

And now it reaches into possible murder.

 

I'd say probable

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Somewhere along the line, it got changed from a graphic description of anal rape to "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature." There are two people who could have made that change. Paterno clearly had means and motive, so it's not reckless to speculate whether he was the one who made the change.

 

yes, the AD made that change. you seem to be ignoring the fact that the AD sat down and conducted an in depth interview with the grad assistant, which is the most important part of this. you're acting like they did pass-it-down-the-line and by the time it got to the president, sandusky was just horsing around in the shower with a kid. curley (the athletic director) directly interviewed mcqueary. the grand jury's account is based on what mcqueary told them and what mcqueary testified to telling curley. the reason they indicted curley for perjury is obviously that his testimony contradicted that of mcqueary, and they did not find curley's repeated claims credible (that mcqueary had just said they were horsing around in the shower).

 

I'm beginning to wonder if you've actually read the grand jury report. It's a PDF, so I can't easily copy-and-paste from it, but in this case I'll take the time to re-type it word-for-word.

 

Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving[ the graduate assistant's report as his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate supervisor, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.

 

Bold added by me for emphasis.

 

Before the investigation you are talking about, Paterno had an opportunity to pass the information along to his immediate supervisor. What Paterno testified to describing was significantly euphamized from what McQueary testified to seeing.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Hairyducked Idiot

[erik316wttn]

How has that not been reported on ESPN or the national news yet? That's a HUGE aspect of this story.

[treebird]

Just so we're clear, has the idea that the McQueary watered down his story to Paterno been reported as fact anywhere? Or is it just a construct created by people to defend Paterno?

 

The only place I've heard any indiation of that theory is from truffle.

 

i've heard it from another penn state fan as well. maybe this is something some penn state blogger made up and is circulating or something.

 

my other penn state fan also went to some length explaining to me that old people don't understand what gay even means so paterno probably heard all of this and was just confused and didn't take it as seriously as he should.

[TruffleShuffle]

Just so we're clear, has the idea that the McQueary watered down his story to Paterno been reported as fact anywhere? Or is it just a construct created by people to defend Paterno?

 

paterno says he didn't know the exact nature of what happened, and nobody (mcqueary, mcqueary's dad, curley) has said otherwise. i'm choosing to believe him; you can choose to not believe him. i suppose if he's lying that it will all come out in the end.

[jersey cubs fan]

i suppose if he's lying that it will all come out in the end.

 

that's why we're in this mess

[erik316wttn]

Another bizarre twist: Ray Gricar, the Centre County district attorney at the time of the 1998 investigation into Victim 6's allegations, has been missing since 2005 and was declared legally dead in July of this year. We may never know why Gricar did not press charges against Sandusky, despite Sandusky's admissions—per the grand jury report—that he had showered naked with the boy and hugged him. The hard drive from Gricar's computer turned up on the banks of the Susquehanna River six months after his disappearance, according to this story Granim wrote three years ago, when she was still at the State College, Pa.-based Centre County Daily Times. Whatever was on that hard drive will forever be the subject of speculation now.

 

And now it reaches into possible murder.

 

I'd say probable

 

You are correct. How ESPN is not all over this detail boggles me.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Just so we're clear, has the idea that the McQueary watered down his story to Paterno been reported as fact anywhere? Or is it just a construct created by people to defend Paterno?

 

paterno says he didn't know the exact nature of what happened, and nobody (mcqueary, mcqueary's dad, curley) has said otherwise. i'm choosing to believe him; you can choose to not believe him. i suppose if he's lying that it will all come out in the end.

 

I've specifically acknowledged that both explanations are possible, I just find one more plausible.

[Sammy Sofa]

Another bizarre twist: Ray Gricar, the Centre County district attorney at the time of the 1998 investigation into Victim 6's allegations, has been missing since 2005 and was declared legally dead in July of this year. We may never know why Gricar did not press charges against Sandusky, despite Sandusky's admissions—per the grand jury report—that he had showered naked with the boy and hugged him. The hard drive from Gricar's computer turned up on the banks of the Susquehanna River six months after his disappearance, according to this story Granim wrote three years ago, when she was still at the State College, Pa.-based Centre County Daily Times. Whatever was on that hard drive will forever be the subject of speculation now.

 

What the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudge.

[erik316wttn]

Jersey can you post the link from the article snippet you just posted?

[Sammy Sofa]

Not the article, but here's the guy's Wiki bio:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gricar

[jersey cubs fan]

Jersey can you post the link from the article snippet you just posted?

 

i got it off the link i listed about the mom's. From a harrisburg newspaper, via deadspin.

[TruffleShuffle]

Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving[ the graduate assistant's report as his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate supervisor, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.

 

Bold added by me for emphasis.

 

Before the investigation you are talking about, Paterno had an opportunity to pass the information along to his immediate supervisor. What Paterno testified to describing was significantly euphamized from what McQueary testified to seeing.

 

"fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy" is, i suppose, less serious than "anal sex with a young boy" but it's still quite obviously a crime. why did curley fart around for a week and a half waiting to interview mcqueary? and curley was the one who claimed that mcqueary reported to him that they were "horsing around." from either paterno's account ("fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy") or mcqueary's account ("anal sex with a boy"), curley had the information that mandated he go to police.

 

even if paterno was embarrassed to say "anal sex with a boy" in front of curley or the jury, he still knew that what happened was bad and he did pass that along to curley.

[jersey cubs fan]

["fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy" is, i suppose, less serious than "anal sex with a young boy"

 

don't ever stop being you

[TruffleShuffle]

Another bizarre twist: Ray Gricar, the Centre County district attorney at the time of the 1998 investigation into Victim 6's allegations, has been missing since 2005 and was declared legally dead in July of this year. We may never know why Gricar did not press charges against Sandusky, despite Sandusky's admissions—per the grand jury report—that he had showered naked with the boy and hugged him. The hard drive from Gricar's computer turned up on the banks of the Susquehanna River six months after his disappearance, according to this story Granim wrote three years ago, when she was still at the State College, Pa.-based Centre County Daily Times. Whatever was on that hard drive will forever be the subject of speculation now.

 

What the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudge.

 

that could be any number of things. there was plenty of speculation (before this story came out) about various people that gricar had prosecuted and had motive for revenge. there was also speculation about ongoing investigations and why the hard drive was possibly destroyed. then gricar seemed to have some slightly weird things going on in his personal life, and some people think he faked his own death and left the country. seems we'll never know.

[Sammy Sofa]

Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving[ the graduate assistant's report as his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate supervisor, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy.

 

Bold added by me for emphasis.

 

Before the investigation you are talking about, Paterno had an opportunity to pass the information along to his immediate supervisor. What Paterno testified to describing was significantly euphamized from what McQueary testified to seeing.

 

"fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy" is, i suppose, less serious than "anal sex with a young boy" but it's still quite obviously a crime. why did curley fart around for a week and a half waiting to interview mcqueary? and curley was the one who claimed that mcqueary reported to him that they were "horsing around." from either paterno's account ("fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy") or mcqueary's account ("anal sex with a boy"), curley had the information that mandated he go to police.

 

even if paterno was embarrassed to say "anal sex with a boy" in front of curley or the jury, he still knew that what happened was bad and he did pass that along to curley.

 

Who cares? The creep was still allowed on campus and nothing was done. I don't care if Paterno notified anyone using elaborately made charts and computer simulations; nothing happened afterwards and he went along with it. He should be fired today.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

"fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy" is, i suppose, less serious than "anal sex with a young boy" but it's still quite obviously a crime. why did curley fart around for a week and a half waiting to interview mcqueary? and curley was the one who claimed that mcqueary reported to him that they were "horsing around." from either paterno's account ("fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy") or mcqueary's account ("anal sex with a boy"), curley had the information that mandated he go to police.

 

even if paterno was embarrassed to say "anal sex with a boy" in front of curley or the jury, he still knew that what happened was bad and he did pass that along to curley.

 

Why did Curley fart around? My guess is because the coach and the administrators wanted to sweep this under the rug and needed time to get their stories straight.

 

Why might Paterno euphamize what he saw? Because when your friends are involved, it's human nature to try to downplay things. That's why you are taking a stance that virtually no one agrees with, because PSU football is your friend. That's why small-town newspaper comment sections are filled with people defending their relatives who get caught committing crimes. And it's why Paterno and the PSU football program allowed their friend, a child rapist, to continue his predation for many years with nothing more than a cursory investigation.

[erik316wttn]

Jersey can you post the link from the article snippet you just posted?

 

i got it off the link i listed about the mom's. From a harrisburg newspaper, via deadspin.

 

Got it, thanks.

[UMFan83]

["fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy" is, i suppose, less serious than "anal sex with a young boy"

 

don't ever stop being you

 

replace the phrase "young boy" with "another woman" and take out the word anal, and that's an argument that many men have used and failed with in the past.