Hoyer, McLeod officially join Cubs

[dew1679666265]

Sounds like a Padres team to me.

 

It kinda does. From my perspective it's worst case scenario, though. With the money we have freed up, we have a very high likelihood of landing one of Pujols/Prince. There's the real chance we miss, though, and rather than make a rash, short term only move (Aramis), I think we should pursue guys who can perform at a high level for multiple seasons going forward.

 

Then in the 2012 offseason we make a hard push for Matt Kemp or someone similar with the money freed up from Z and Dempster.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

No one's saying it's ideal to miss out on Fieldjols. But if you think they can compete in 2012 with Pujielder, then it's a bit absurd to think that losing 3-5 wins at 1b by having to settle for Carlos Pena, and using the difference in money to improve elsewhere, will mean the team is dooooooooooomed. Edited November 2, 2011 by Hairyducked Idiot

[USSoccer]

Sounds like a Padres team to me.

 

It kinda does. From my perspective it's worst case scenario, though. With the money we have freed up, we have a very high likelihood of landing one of Pujols/Prince. There's the real chance we miss, though, and rather than make a rash, short term only move (Aramis), I think we should pursue guys who can perform at a high level for multiple seasons going forward.

 

Then in the 2012 offseason we make a hard push for Matt Kemp or someone similar with the money freed up from Z and Dempster.

 

I've seen this one before. We ended up with Jeromy Burnitz. And then had to overpay for Soriano to make up for it.

[dew1679666265]

Is that offense that much worse than this one?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SFG/2010.shtml

 

Right. It's clearly not ideal, but having a fantastic pitching staff and a really good defense can work if you get some breaks.

[USSoccer]

Is that offense that much worse than this one?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SFG/2010.shtml

 

Right. It's clearly not ideal, but having a fantastic pitching staff and a really good defense can work if you get some breaks.

 

A team with a $130m payroll in the NL Central shouldn't have to rely on pitching health and "breaks"

[davell]

Totally off topic, but reading the tweet from Olney about the Yankees willing to talk pitching makes me wonder what they might give up to get Matt Garza? Garza's number 2 on my list in terms of guys that I don't think should be dealt ... but if they offer a boatload, it would be ... interesting as they have the chips to offer.

If they offered Montero and one of Betances or Banuelos, I'd go into rebuild mode for a year. It'd leave us way too shorthanded to try and compete immediately, but it'd give us a hell of a start for 2013.

[dew1679666265]

I've seen this one before. We ended up with Jeromy Burnitz. And then had to overpay for Soriano to make up for it.

 

I'm not following you. How does Jeromy Burnitz compare to Headley or Sizemore and how does Soriano compare to Matt Kemp?

[treebird]

Is that offense that much worse than this one?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SFG/2010.shtml

 

Right. It's clearly not ideal, but having a fantastic pitching staff and a really good defense can work if you get some breaks.

 

very true. unfortunately, that team has three starters better than any of ours and three relievers better than any of ours

[Clem Fandango]

Totally off topic, but reading the tweet from Olney about the Yankees willing to talk pitching makes me wonder what they might give up to get Matt Garza? Garza's number 2 on my list in terms of guys that I don't think should be dealt ... but if they offer a boatload, it would be ... interesting as they have the chips to offer.

 

Montero, Sanchez, Banuelos, Betances... no reason to target anyone else if that situation ever came up (don't want it to).

 

Oh, and Mark Prior.

[treebird]

Is that offense that much worse than this one?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SFG/2010.shtml

 

Right. It's clearly not ideal, but having a fantastic pitching staff and a really good defense can work if you get some breaks.

 

A team with a $130m payroll in the NL Central shouldn't have to rely on pitching health and "breaks"

 

or hoping to wait a year and outbid every other team in baseball for the best free agent on the market that everyone will want so we can put him on the field next to our one other good position player.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

or hoping to wait a year and outbid every other team in baseball for the best free agent on the market that everyone will want so we can put him on the field next to our one other good position player.

 

Brett Jackson and Geovany Soto would like a word with you, and in all likelihood they'll be bringing a friend or three.

[dew1679666265]

A team with a $130m payroll in the NL Central shouldn't have to rely on pitching health and "breaks"

 

And what are we relying on if we give Aramis a 3/45 deal at minimum? Health. We're overpaying a 34 year old, oft-injured third baseman in the hopes that he will stay healthy.

 

I've said multiple times this isn't an ideal scenario and my first option this offseason is to pay very large amounts of money to one of Prince/Pujols. But if that doesn't work out, bringing in two stud pitchers is better than one stud pitcher and overpaying for an old, oft-injured Aramis.

[USSoccer]

I've seen this one before. We ended up with Jeromy Burnitz. And then had to overpay for Soriano to make up for it.

 

I'm not following you. How does Jeromy Burnitz compare to Headley or Sizemore and how does Soriano compare to Matt Kemp?

 

Sizemore has been broken for like 2 years now and just got non-tendered by Cleveland. You're hoping you catch lightning in a bottle with him. I have no idea what a Headley is, but it sounds like a league average player. Its settling for like the 5th best options out there.

 

And you're on drugs if you're going to put all your eggs in the "Matt Kemp will definitely hit the market, and when he does we'll sign him so it's ok to pass/miss out on every good offensive player going into 2012 because we'll get Matt Kemp" basket. That's not exactly the kind of sound planning that wins championships.

 

If we sign Pujols or Fielder, fine. Whatever. If we don't, no amount of mental gymnastics and projecting 2013 signings or whatever will make us not suck on offense. There's no really likely scenario where we aren't really below average in 2012 offensively.

[treebird]

or hoping to wait a year and outbid every other team in baseball for the best free agent on the market that everyone will want so we can put him on the field next to our one other good position player.

 

Brett Jackson and Geovany Soto would like a word with you, and in all likelihood they'll be bringing a friend or three.

 

brett jackson should be working on figuring on how to not strike out in a third of his at bats instead of talking to dorks on the internet

[USSoccer]

A team with a $130m payroll in the NL Central shouldn't have to rely on pitching health and "breaks"

 

And what are we relying on if we give Aramis a 3/45 deal at minimum? Health. We're overpaying a 34 year old, oft-injured third baseman in the hopes that he will stay healthy.

 

I've said multiple times this isn't an ideal scenario and my first option this offseason is to pay very large amounts of money to one of Prince/Pujols. But if that doesn't work out, bringing in two stud pitchers is better than one stud pitcher and overpaying for an old, oft-injured Aramis.

 

Retaining Aramis and signing Pujols or Fielder is far, far, far more likely to be helpful next year and beyond than hoping one of those two decides to sign here to play with Castro and a collection of crap.

 

And again, who's the other stud FA pitcher?

[treebird]

A team with a $130m payroll in the NL Central shouldn't have to rely on pitching health and "breaks"

 

And what are we relying on if we give Aramis a 3/45 deal at minimum? Health. We're overpaying a 34 year old, oft-injured third baseman in the hopes that he will stay healthy.

 

I've said multiple times this isn't an ideal scenario and my first option this offseason is to pay very large amounts of money to one of Prince/Pujols. But if that doesn't work out, bringing in two stud pitchers is better than one stud pitcher and overpaying for an old, oft-injured Aramis.

 

Retaining Aramis and signing Pujols or Fielder is far, far, far more likely to be helpful next year and beyond than hoping one of those two decides to sign here to play with Castro and a collection of crap.

 

And again, who's the other stud FA pitcher?

 

i guess people are talking about darvish.

[USSoccer]

 

And again, who's the other stud FA pitcher?

 

i guess people are talking about darvish.

 

Oh yeah. Pissing away eleventy billion dollars on a posting fee + contract for a Japanese pitcher is totally the way to go. I mean, those guys have a proven track record of stardom in MLB. Way better than a shorter term, lower dollar commitment to a guy who's been the best 3B in Chicago for like 30 years.

 

BRB, checking on how Daisuke/Irabu/Iwamura are doing.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Retaining Aramis and signing Pujols or Fielder is far, far, far more likely to be helpful next year and beyond than hoping one of those two decides to sign here to play with Castro and a collection of crap.

 

Soriano/Jackson/Byrd

Random Crap/Castro/Barney/Pena

Soto

 

That offense is above-average at C and SS, average at LF, CF, and RF, and below-average at 2b and 3b.

 

I'm not seeing how that's a terrible offense. It's not a great offense, but it's an okay one, and this is in some sort of nightmare scenario where they fail to upgrade a single position.

[USSoccer]

Retaining Aramis and signing Pujols or Fielder is far, far, far more likely to be helpful next year and beyond than hoping one of those two decides to sign here to play with Castro and a collection of crap.

 

Soriano/Jackson/Byrd

Random Crap/Castro/Barney/Pena

Soto

 

That offense is above-average at C and SS, average at LF, CF, and RF, and below-average at 2b and 3b.

 

I'm not seeing how that's a terrible offense. It's not a great offense, but it's an okay one, and this is in some sort of nightmare scenario where they fail to upgrade a single position.

 

That team is incredibly terrible and we'd be in last place if not for the death hole that is

Houston.

 

ETA: I just caught that you declared Jackson to be average in CF and Byrd to be average in RF. Come on, Kyle. You can argue better than that.

Edited November 2, 2011 by USSoccer

[dew1679666265]

very true. unfortunately, that team has three starters better than any of ours and three relievers better than any of ours

 

You mean Aubrey Huff, who posted a .694 OPS in 2009 and a .676 OPS in 2011? An extremely up and down player who happened to have a really good year that season? If Grady can stay healthy, he could give us Huff-type numbers.

 

And then there's Pat Burrell who had a .682 and .756 OPS around the 2010 season. Again, the Giants took a chance on a highly up and down player and got an up year. They caught a break - one we could get from a Soriano/DeJesus platoon if the breaks go our way. Soto could also have an up season next year and give us an .800+ OPS like Burrell did for SF.

 

As for Posey, Castro probably won't be that good but he could give us an .800+ OPS next year.

 

As for the relievers, Marshall can be close to as good as anybody in their pen that year and Marmol can as well if he can rebound. As for the third, we have a plethora of options to work through, all with upside.

[davell]

Heading into the 2013 season, we're going to have had to added a 3 or 4 hitter and also a 5 or 6 hitter as well. We are also going to have to add 2 frontline pitchers during that time frame. We've basically got 30 or 35 mill this year to address this. And next year we're going to have slightly more than that number as well. And this is if we keep the payroll right where it is. 60 or 70 mill is a ton to work with and we should have quite a few league minimum guys taking spots, so most of this can be allocated towards bigtime FA ordifference makers acquired through trade. How much of this we accomplish immediately isn't all that important to me. But, I'd bet we address at least one of these 4 holes this offseason and possibly 2. Although my guess is the 2nd piece is added during the season.

[USSoccer]

very true. unfortunately, that team has three starters better than any of ours and three relievers better than any of ours

 

You mean Aubrey Huff, who posted a .694 OPS in 2009 and a .676 OPS in 2011? An extremely up and down player who happened to have a really good year that season? If Grady can stay healthy, he could give us Huff-type numbers.

 

And then there's Pat Burrell who had a .682 and .756 OPS around the 2010 season. Again, the Giants took a chance on a highly up and down player and got an up year. They caught a break - one we could get from a Soriano/DeJesus platoon if the breaks go our way. Soto could also have an up season next year and give us an .800+ OPS like Burrell did for SF.

 

As for Posey, Castro probably won't be that good but he could give us an .800+ OPS next year.

 

As for the relievers, Marshall can be close to as good as anybody in their pen that year and Marmol can as well if he can rebound. As for the third, we have a plethora of options to work through, all with upside.

 

Pretty sure Trey said that they have three SP and three relievers better than ours. Their offense would be just as god effing awful as ours. There's no one that's like Lincecum or Cain just out there for us to sign with no competition, not to mention you're again hoping that Carlos Marmol doesn't suck, and hoping that the collection of glish in the upper minors can step in and effectively relieve at the major league level.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

ETA: I just caught that you declared Jackson to be average in CF and Byrd to be average in RF. Come on, Kyle. You can argue better than that.

 

Yeah, that was cheating a bit on Byrd. But Jackson's a legit projection.

 

2011 average NL CFer: .262 .333 .409

2012 ZIPS projection for Brett Jackson: .254 .335 .419

[treebird]

Retaining Aramis and signing Pujols or Fielder is far, far, far more likely to be helpful next year and beyond than hoping one of those two decides to sign here to play with Castro and a collection of crap.

 

Soriano/Jackson/Byrd

Random Crap/Castro/Barney/Pena

Soto

 

That offense is above-average at C and SS, average at LF, CF, and RF, and below-average at 2b and 3b.

 

I'm not seeing how that's a terrible offense. It's not a great offense, but it's an okay one, and this is in some sort of nightmare scenario where they fail to upgrade a single position.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=975442

 

these are the numbers for what the league as a whole did at each position. you should look at them. and keep in mind that if you have a starter performing at these numbers, you have a below average starter, for obvious reasons.

 

you're being VERY charitable calling anyone in that outfield average.

[treebird]

very true. unfortunately, that team has three starters better than any of ours and three relievers better than any of ours

 

You mean Aubrey Huff, who posted a .694 OPS in 2009 and a .676 OPS in 2011? An extremely up and down player who happened to have a really good year that season? If Grady can stay healthy, he could give us Huff-type numbers.

 

And then there's Pat Burrell who had a .682 and .756 OPS around the 2010 season. Again, the Giants took a chance on a highly up and down player and got an up year. They caught a break - one we could get from a Soriano/DeJesus platoon if the breaks go our way. Soto could also have an up season next year and give us an .800+ OPS like Burrell did for SF.

 

As for Posey, Castro probably won't be that good but he could give us an .800+ OPS next year.

 

As for the relievers, Marshall can be close to as good as anybody in their pen that year and Marmol can as well if he can rebound. As for the third, we have a plethora of options to work through, all with upside.

 

Pretty sure Trey said that they have three SP and three relievers better than ours. Their offense would be just as god effing awful as ours. There's no one that's like Lincecum or Cain just out there for us to sign with no competition, not to mention you're again hoping that Carlos Marmol doesn't suck, and hoping that the collection of glish in the upper minors can step in and effectively relieve at the major league level.

 

yeah, i could've phrased that better. meant starting pitchers, not starting position players.