Zambrano, Ramirez, and LaHair

[BeerHere]

Zambrano quit on his teammates last year

 

Zambrano was out of the game and talked about retirement after a teammate berated him. He didn't quit.

 

He packed up his stuff and left. He rescinded his remarks when he realized how much money he left on the table. That sounds like quitting to me, but whatever.

 

 

He was out of the game. He couldn't do a damn thing to affect that game at that point. The fact that he packed his stuff is absolutely meaningless. He had a hissy fit after a teammate went off on him for hitting the opponent.

If Hendry were still the GM I think it's pretty clear that he would be gone, he would either be waived and they eat his contract or he gets traded for very little value. With Epstein, it isn't that cut and dry and I love that about him. Question to you Goony, do you think Zambrano is a Cub at the start of 2012? I'm on record as saying no, I think he's gone and all Theo is doing now is posturing to get the best value for him.

[BeerHere]

I know we aren't used to this as Cubs fans, but it might just be that Theo was talking up his assets rather than smashing them to pieces before getting garbage for them. We're all used to Hendry destroying any value a player has before selling them low.

Agreed and I love it.

[jersey cubs fan]

If Hendry were still the GM I think it's pretty clear that he would be gone, he would either be waived and they eat his contract or he gets traded for very little value. With Epstein, it isn't that cut and dry and I love that about him. Question to you Goony, do you think Zambrano is a Cub at the start of 2012? I'm on record as saying no, I think he's gone and all Theo is doing now is posturing to get the best value for him.

 

I think the odds are slightly in favor of him being retained (because that is the actual smart thing to do), but it is very hard to tell. I'm not on record either way.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think Zambrano is a Cub on opening day because Theo is an intelligent person. If he could save ~8M by dumping him, he would because Z's unlikely to be worth more than the remainder of his deal, and wouldn't be worth it at that point, but it's pretty damn unlikely he can.

[jersey cubs fan]

it's pretty damn unlikely he can.

 

how dare you heathen

 

theo akbar

[davearm2]

If Hendry were still the GM I think it's pretty clear that he would be gone, he would either be waived and they eat his contract or he gets traded for very little value. With Epstein, it isn't that cut and dry and I love that about him. Question to you Goony, do you think Zambrano is a Cub at the start of 2012? I'm on record as saying no, I think he's gone and all Theo is doing now is posturing to get the best value for him.

 

I think the odds are slightly in favor of him being retained (because that is the actual smart thing to do), but it is very hard to tell. I'm not on record either way.

Zambrano is going to be a fascinating case study to watch.

 

Everything we know about Epstein's analytical approach would point to keeping him. From a pure cost/benefit approach, it definitely makes more sense to keep him than to pay him to play someplace else, especially given the Cubs' need for pitching.

 

Everything we hear from Epstein about changing the culture, doing things the right way, standing up for teammates, having each other's back, etc. would point to ditching him.

 

Should be intriguing to see how it plays out.

[sneakypower]

LaHair

 

vs. RHP:

2010: 354 PA, .339/.421/.616

2009: 373 PA, .312/.386/.592

2008: 277 PA, .285/.383/.527

2007: 450 PA, .303/.360/.477

2006: 197 PA, .326/.391/.489

2006: 171 PA, .353/.421/.575

total: .316/.390/.546

 

vs. LHP:

2010: 116 PA, .222/.276/.370

2009: 150 PA, .221/.273/.350

2008: 83 PA, .200/.277/.280

2007: 151 PA, .187/.252/.281

2006: 53 PA, .159/.302/.182

2006: 53 PA, .255/.340/.383

total: .207/.277/.315

 

he's always been able to pound RHPs and he's always been unable to touch LHPs*; assuming his defense is adequate in COF (totalzone seems to think he's capable, but that's hardly an authority) i'm perfectly fine with him platooning with Soriano and/or Byrd if no better options present themselves

 

*i couldn't find splits for his past season in Iowa, but i doubt they're really much different

[SouthSideRyan]

The PCL's average park factor is roughly a bajillion.

[Guest]

I'm not on record either way.

Coward

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not on record either way.

Coward

 

very true.

 

i'll go on record saying he should stay

[Guest]

I'm not on record either way.

Coward

 

very true.

 

i'll go on record saying he should stay

I agree. I think it may have been very beneficial for Z to sit out the last 1/3 of the season. His velocity has been down and his mechanics have been bad. Theo can say it's a due over but privately tell Z any shenanigans and it's over. However, they still have to settle Z's grievance.

[Guest]

Just for the sake of discussion, what's the maximum amount of salary we'd eat on Zambrano while getting a negligible/insignificant return in a trade that it would be worth eating?

 

I'm asking the people who are open to the possibility of him staying here, not those of you who want him gone at all costs.

[Guest]

Zambrano's market value is probably about 8-10 million for one year. So if we're getting nothing in return, I'd be willing to eat (symmetrically enough) 8-10 million to get rid of him.

[Guest]

Zambrano's market value is probably about 8-10 million for one year. So if we're getting nothing in return, I'd be willing to eat (symmetrically enough) 8-10 million to get rid of him.

 

 

That's the neighborhood I was in.

[jersey cubs fan]

Zambrano's market value is probably about 8-10 million for one year. So if we're getting nothing in return, I'd be willing to eat (symmetrically enough) 8-10 million to get rid of him.

 

why?

[Guest]

Zambrano's market value is probably about 8-10 million for one year. So if we're getting nothing in return, I'd be willing to eat (symmetrically enough) 8-10 million to get rid of him.

 

why?

 

I'm guessing because his expected production would be worth around that much and if you can get that much salary relief, you're about neutral. If you somehow get the high end or more, you're coming out ahead.

 

 

But then, I suppose there's value in having the guy already.

Edited October 26, 2011 by David

[Banedon]

Zambrano's market value is probably about 8-10 million for one year. So if we're getting nothing in return, I'd be willing to eat (symmetrically enough) 8-10 million to get rid of him.

 

why?

 

Yeah I'm not sure either. Why would you trade him for nothing?

[treebird]

tt thinks zambrano will provide war or whatever worth 8 million dollars. if you trade zambrano for nothing and save 8 million dollars, you can go buy that war someplace else and break even. if you save more you'll come out ahead, less you'll come out behind.

[Guest]

Zambrano's market value is probably about 8-10 million for one year. So if we're getting nothing in return, I'd be willing to eat (symmetrically enough) 8-10 million to get rid of him.

 

why?

 

Why to what, exactly?

 

Z will make 18 million next year and likely provide about 8-10 million in value. If you eat 8-10 million, you can replace him at market value with that money. You might value him a little higher because of the potential comp picks, but by the same token I'm pretty confident we could find similar production at a little less than market value with the front office currently in place. I wouldn't quibble about the exact number, and that number is an "up to x million" number, not what I think it would require to get rid of him. But for the purpose of the thought exercise, that's what I would be okay with paying to get Zambrano and his contract off the roster.

[Guest]

Not sure if it really qualifies as news, but it sounds like Aramis approves.

 

Aramis Ramirez told Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com that he is open to returning to the Cubs now that Theo Epstein is in the fold.

[MSG T]

Not sure if it really qualifies as news, but it sounds like Aramis approves.

 

Aramis Ramirez told Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com that he is open to returning to the Cubs now that Theo Epstein is in the fold.

 

 

Can't wait for @thekapman to comment about Ramirez being the exact opposite type of player Theo would want on the Cubs.

[sneakypower]

Zambrano's market value is probably about 8-10 million for one year. So if we're getting nothing in return, I'd be willing to eat (symmetrically enough) 8-10 million to get rid of him.

 

why?

 

Why to what, exactly?

 

Z will make 18 million next year and likely provide about 8-10 million in value. If you eat 8-10 million, you can replace him at market value with that money. You might value him a little higher because of the potential comp picks, but by the same token I'm pretty confident we could find similar production at a little less than market value with the front office currently in place. I wouldn't quibble about the exact number, and that number is an "up to x million" number, not what I think it would require to get rid of him. But for the purpose of the thought exercise, that's what I would be okay with paying to get Zambrano and his contract off the roster.

8-10 seems a little low, to be honest

 

in the worst season of his career, factoring offense, he still amassed 1.9 WAR (worth $8.4M) in just 24 starts (145 IP)

Edited October 26, 2011 by sneakypower

[jersey cubs fan]

Zambrano's market value is probably about 8-10 million for one year. So if we're getting nothing in return, I'd be willing to eat (symmetrically enough) 8-10 million to get rid of him.

 

why?

 

Why to what, exactly?

 

Why would you pay $8-10m for him to go away with nothing in return?

[jersey cubs fan]

Z will make 18 million next year and likely provide about 8-10 million in value. If you eat 8-10 million, you can replace him at market value with that money.

 

No, you probably can't.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Zambrano's market value is probably about 8-10 million for one year. So if we're getting nothing in return, I'd be willing to eat (symmetrically enough) 8-10 million to get rid of him.

 

why?

 

Why to what, exactly?

 

Why would you pay $8-10m for him to go away with nothing in return?

 

What you get in return is the freedom from having to pay the remainder of his contract. Zambrano represents an $15 million debt to the Cubs in the upcoming season. Paying $8-10 million to relieve that debt leaves you with $8-10 million to try to find a better player.