Cubs "not motivated" to move Pena

[Sammy Sofa]

Hendry's retention was Ricketts doing.

 

I'm starting to kind of hope Hendry is extended, just to see how far some of his supporters around here will go to defend it.

 

What the what?

 

What supporters?

 

Perhaps perennial Cub spin doctors would be a better term.

 

Examples.

 

And I just hope Rob is right re: Hendry having his hands tied due to a lame duck status. This whole argument could have been avoided had he installed a new FO office sooner.

 

Pretty much all of the ideal replacements are working for other teams at the moment, so unless you mean "during the last offseason" when you say "sooner" that really doesn't mean much of anything.

[Tarver]

Hendry's retention was Ricketts doing.

 

I'm starting to kind of hope Hendry is extended, just to see how far some of his supporters around here will go to defend it.

 

What the what?

 

What supporters?

 

Perhaps perennial Cub spin doctors would be a better term.

 

Examples.

 

And I just hope Rob is right re: Hendry having his hands tied due to a lame duck status. This whole argument could have been avoided had he installed a new FO office sooner.

 

 

Pretty much all of the ideal replacements are working for other teams at the moment, so unless you mean "during the last offseason" when you say "sooner" that really doesn't mean much of anything.

 

Look around. And I meant the offseason prior to last but last offseason would've been fine too.

[questionmarkgrace]

I'm pretty confident we can "gamble" on the 5th starter position somehow being covered between Wells, Cashner and McNutt.

 

yeah we can. but does that make us a .500 baseball team? I'm not so sure. A second starter makes us a contender. Or keeping Aramis and signing Fielder and signing a pitcher. Getting Wilson and Fielder (which I personally think will be difficult to snag both) does not make us a for sure contender next year.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm pretty confident we can "gamble" on the 5th starter position somehow being covered between Wells, Cashner and McNutt.

 

yeah we can but how does that make us a .500 baseball team? I'm not so sure.

 

Castro getting even better, Soto hopefully bouncing back to 2008/2010 Soto instead of just decent but mostly only tolerable Soto, Aramis not getting off to such a slow start power-wise (if he is indeed back), adding someone like Fielder or Pujols, signing a new starting pitcher and then not having two of them go down after their first starts of the year and then being replaced by a parade of hideous garbage.

 

Sure, things have to go their way, but it's far from impossible. And even if they don't quite get over the hill next year it can still mean that 2013 can be the push that puts them over the top with more good FA available and more money coming off the books. Giving up on 2012 effectively means giving up for the foreseeable future whereas it's not like 2012 is a make or break season if they attempt to be competitive. If they make the right moves and end up back at .500 or above, great. If they make the right moves and up, say, winning 15-20 games more instead, great. Then they're still in a position to win even more the next year (and the seasons after that).

[Sammy Sofa]

Hendry's retention was Ricketts doing.

 

I'm starting to kind of hope Hendry is extended, just to see how far some of his supporters around here will go to defend it.

 

What the what?

 

What supporters?

 

Perhaps perennial Cub spin doctors would be a better term.

 

Examples.

 

Look around.

 

I don't even know what I'm looking for. Please clarify.

[Keener98]

Umm Buster Olney just said on the pre game that Hendry didnt trade Baker/Johnson because Hendry told him he feels they are a part of the future. WTF

[Tracer Bullet]

Jim Hendry just told Buster Olney: "Look, I tried to trade Baker, but the only offer was a steaming pile of crap. I guess he's not worth anything."

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I have a much easier time believing we get Pujols or Fielder than Wilson. If there's only one starting pitcher on the market worth talking about (and apparently that's the case, because Wilson's name keeps coming up), then the competition will be ridiculous.

[dew1679666265]

Umm Buster Olney just said on the pre game that Hendry didnt trade Baker/Johnson because Hendry told him he feels they are a part of the future. WTF

 

On Baker, if by future Hendry meant next season, then I'm fine with that. If he meant 2+ years down the road, I'm not a big fan of his thinking.

 

On Reed, he shouldn't be part of our future whatever "future" you're referring to.

[dew1679666265]

I have a much easier time believing we get Pujols or Fielder than Wilson. If there's only one starting pitcher on the market worth talking about (and apparently that's the case, because Wilson's name keeps coming up), then the competition will be ridiculous.

 

That's probably true. Pujols/Fielder is the important signing anyway. We have a few guys who could be top of the rotation type guys in the future (McNutt, Whitenack close), but no elite middle of the order power bat in the minors.

 

If we miss on Wilson we can bring back Aramis and settle for a lesser arm (Edwin Jackson?) and still maybe compete.

[questionmarkgrace]

I'm pretty confident we can "gamble" on the 5th starter position somehow being covered between Wells, Cashner and McNutt.

 

yeah we can but how does that make us a .500 baseball team? I'm not so sure.

 

Castro getting even better, Soto hopefully bouncing back to 2008/2010 Soto instead of just decent but mostly only tolerable Soto, Aramis not getting off to such a slow start power-wise (if he is indeed back), adding someone like Fielder or Pujols, signing a new starting pitcher and then not having two of them go down after their first starts of the year and then being replaced by a parade of hideous garbage.

 

Sure, things have to go their way, but it's far from impossible. And even if they don't quite get over the hill next year it can still mean that 2013 can be the push that puts them over the top with more good FA available and more money coming off the books. Giving up on 2012 effectively means giving up for the foreseeable future whereas it's not like 2012 is a make or break season if they attempt to be competitive. If they make the right moves and end up back at .500 or above, great. If they make the right moves and up, say, winning 15-20 games more instead, great. Then they're still in a position to win even more the next year (and the seasons after that).

 

 

That is a lot of ifs. I guess my point is if it is at all questionable that we are competing next year why not trade a piece or two to get better long term? As others have said having marshall and marmol around is pointless if you cant get them the ball with a lead. I suppose this still could happen if Ramirez is dealt at the waiver deadline but that remains to be seen.

[J.R.]

The division is going to be turned upside down this winter. Big Jim is just keeping his options open.

[questionmarkgrace]

I have a much easier time believing we get Pujols or Fielder than Wilson. If there's only one starting pitcher on the market worth talking about (and apparently that's the case, because Wilson's name keeps coming up), then the competition will be ridiculous.

 

That's probably true. Pujols/Fielder is the important signing anyway. We have a few guys who could be top of the rotation type guys in the future (McNutt, Whitenack close), but no elite middle of the order power bat in the minors.

 

If we miss on Wilson we can bring back Aramis and settle for a lesser arm (Edwin Jackson?) and still maybe compete.

 

 

I dont see Whitenack coming back from surgery that quickly or the cubs rushing him again because of surgery. McNutt hasnt been all that impressive when not injured this year. Maybe an off season heals nagging injuries but who knows.

[Sammy Sofa]

That is a lot of ifs. I guess my point is if it is at all questionable that we are competing next year why not trade a piece or two to get better long term? As others have said having marshall and marmol around is pointless if you cant get them the ball with a lead. I suppose this still could happen if Ramirez is dealt at the waiver deadline but that remains to be seen.

 

Because the Cubs are in a crappy situation where they don't really have anyone young, affordable AND good enough to net them the kind of return you want (and you want to give up in the first place).

[dew1679666265]

I dont see Whitenack coming back from surgery that quickly or the cubs rushing him again because of surgery. McNutt hasnt been all that impressive when not injured this year. Maybe an off season heals nagging injuries but who knows.

 

I wasn't sure if I was clear enough there - I referred to McNutt and Whitenack as long term top of the rotation guys rather than next year.

[dew1679666265]

Good article by Bruce Miles (as usual) on why the Cubs weren't active. Sounds like Hendry wasn't getting great offers for the guys he was trying to shop.

 

On Pena:

“There’s not somebody waiting to take his place for next year in-house like Tyler is hopeful to do that in the outfield in moving Fuke,” Hendry said. You have to look at it that way, too.

 

“The other factor, if you get a second-tier or two prospect back and you already have people better than that in your own system, then you really haven’t done anything to help the organization, and then you’re also put in the spot where if you add minor-league players today, that means somebody’s going to be sent backwards in our system or eliminated. That’s just the way I looked at it.”

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So Hendry was worried about having too many prospects?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Wait, actually, what he said was we don't have enough prospects and also he's worried about having too many prospects.

[Sammy Sofa]

Hendry's terrible at being diplomatic. Basically he's saying is that the Cubs were offered [expletive].

[Illini Iceman]

Wait, actually, what he said was we don't have enough prospects and also he's worried about having too many prospects.

 

That's not what he said. He said he doesn't have anyone in the system ready to take over first base NEXT YEAR. Then he said he didn't want to take SECOND TIER prospects that aren't better than what he has in the system already because they would just block the existing prospects. Obviously if someone was offering a player the he feels could take over first base next year he would have made a move. But clearly no one was making that type of player available, they were offering more lower level crap (like he got for Fukudome).

 

I think Hendry has messed up this team and needs to go for putting them in this situation but don't specifically feel he failed at this trade deadline.

[questionmarkgrace]

Hendry's terrible at being diplomatic. Basically he's saying is that the Cubs were offered [expletive].

 

Well they were offered crap for the crap he wanted to give up. I can certainly see that Johnson and grabow and pena may not have garnered much.

 

Look around the league at what Beltran and Mike Adams garnered. I have to think Ramirez, would have gotten us a deal similar to beltran (despite tweets to the contrary). ANd marshal and marmol probably would have garnered something close to what the rangers gave for Mike Adams. These are high potential impact guys these team are getting back. Byrd might not have brought back 4 prospects from the braves but one pretty good one and one high ceiling guy would have worked. I would have even been happy trading just one of marshall or marmol because we have plenty of bullpen type arms and only a handful of starter types in the upper levels of the system. Unless the cubs plan on retaining ramirez grabbing fielder and grabbing a starter Wilson or Jackson Hendry's plan doesnt make sense.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Cubs need Byrd next year and can trade him then if they have another bad season.

 

The Cubs have no relievers as lights out as Adams has been this year (and his entire career in SD). Seriously, look him up. His numbers are obscene. Implying or suggesting that the Cubs had someone comparable to trade is as ridiculous as the guy who was griping about how the Cubs should have taken a cue from the Uehara trade; Uehara and Adams are much, much, much better than Marshall and much better than Marmol this year (and before, too). Marshall is a soft-tossing LH and Marmol is having a crappy year and has an awful contract.

 

Your expectations are unrealistic and your comparisons are inaccurate.

[Illini Iceman]

Hendry's terrible at being diplomatic. Basically he's saying is that the Cubs were offered [expletive].

 

Well they were offered crap for the crap he wanted to give up. I can certainly see that Johnson and grabow and pena may not have garnered much.

 

Look around the league at what Beltran and Mike Adams garnered. I have to think Ramirez, would have gotten us a deal similar to beltran (despite tweets to the contrary).

 

Ramirez was pretty clear about his unwillingness to waive his NTC.

[Sammy Sofa]

Even though he reportedly wavered on that at the end, he's not having the year that Beltran was having with the Mets nor does he have the reputation that Beltran has. Beltran gets knocked for his injuries, but beyond that is perceived as a good defender. Aramis is not.

[Guest]

The division is going to be turned upside down this winter. Big Jim is just keeping his options open.

 

Exactly.