Is marshall worth keeping?

[Vanilla Ice]

really, you think barney is a key player to this team? guys like him, fontenot, and theriot are a dime a dozen. We have marwin gonzalez, and flarehety who can come up and probably outproduce him right now.

 

other teams like the brewers, cardinals, and reds are stocked for years with their current players and farms system guys. they arent getting worse any time soon. The pirates even look like they can be good for quite a while.

I never said he was a key player. He has value to the team because he's cheap and decent. We likely wouldn't get anything worthwhile for him in a trade, so that defeats the point.

 

Our division has solid teams, but no great team. That's why we can compete next year. Also, the Cardinals and Brewers are likely losing their superstar first basemen.

Agreed, although I would not agree that Pujols likely leaves.

[JimSorgi]

really, you think barney is a key player to this team? guys like him, fontenot, and theriot are a dime a dozen. We have marwin gonzalez, and flarehety who can come up and probably outproduce him right now.

 

other teams like the brewers, cardinals, and reds are stocked for years with their current players and farms system guys. they arent getting worse any time soon. The pirates even look like they can be good for quite a while.

I never said he was a key player. He has value to the team because he's cheap and decent. We likely wouldn't get anything worthwhile for him in a trade, so that defeats the point.

 

Our division has solid teams, but no great team. That's why we can compete next year. Also, the Cardinals and Brewers are likely losing their superstar first basemen.

Agreed, although I would not agree that Pujols likely leaves.

Yeah, hopefully would be a better word there.

[questionmarkgrace]

really, you think barney is a key player to this team? guys like him, fontenot, and theriot are a dime a dozen. We have marwin gonzalez, and flarehety who can come up and probably outproduce him right now.

 

other teams like the brewers, cardinals, and reds are stocked for years with their current players and farms system guys. they arent getting worse any time soon. The pirates even look like they can be good for quite a while.

I never said he was a key player. He has value to the team because he's cheap and decent. We likely wouldn't get anything worthwhile for him in a trade, so that defeats the point.

 

Our division has solid teams, but no great team. That's why we can compete next year. Also, the Cardinals and Brewers are likely losing their superstar first basemen.

 

Well the Brewers are losing their first baseman, anyway. And the Brewers' farm system is completely dried up, and the Cardinals system isn't in much better shape.

 

we have no one in AAA or AA aside from McNutt, Jackson, and Flarhety to speak of. Two of those three are blocked right now. pitching wise we are much less developed then these other teams. The reds have a top five system in all of baseball. The pirates arent far behind multiple position players and pitchers. The cardinals have shelby miller who is better than any prospect in our system. And Yes the brewers are depleted but guys like Peralta, Gamel and Rogers will contribute for them next year. Thornburg is a year away and looks like a future stud.

 

We need pitching bad and our guys have either been hurt or are a couple years away. The best way to improve is to make trades from areas of depth.

[shnsajax]

Assuming Soriano and Fuku are gone would you trade Marshall for Delmon Young?

[Cubswin11]

Assuming Soriano and Fuku are gone would you trade Marshall for Delmon Young?

I'd rather see what it would take to get Kemp or Ethier from the Dodgers. If we are talking about trading Marshall to fill an OF void. I think Ethier would come a little cheaper. Obviously it would take more than just Marshall to get one of those guys (especially Kemp).

[CyHawk_Cub]

Assuming Soriano and Fuku are gone would you trade Marshall for Delmon Young?

I'd rather see what it would take to get Kemp or Ethier from the Dodgers. If we are talking about trading Marshall to fill an OF void. I think Ethier would come a little cheaper. Obviously it would take more than just Marshall to get one of those guys (especially Kemp).

 

Will the Dodgers be able to move any of their higher-profile guys though, given their current financial state? Even if it meant shedding payroll, I'm assuming they can't until the bankruptcy/ownership situation is sorted.

[Guest]

we have no one in AAA or AA aside from McNutt, Jackson, and Flarhety to speak of. Two of those three are blocked right now. pitching wise we are much less developed then these other teams. The reds have a top five system in all of baseball. The pirates arent far behind multiple position players and pitchers. The cardinals have shelby miller who is better than any prospect in our system. And Yes the brewers are depleted but guys like Peralta, Gamel and Rogers will contribute for them next year. Thornburg is a year away and looks like a future stud.

 

We need pitching bad and our guys have either been hurt or are a couple years away. The best way to improve is to make trades from areas of depth.

This is as pessimistic a view of the situation as it is conceivably possible to portray.

[Cubswin11]

Assuming Soriano and Fuku are gone would you trade Marshall for Delmon Young?

I'd rather see what it would take to get Kemp or Ethier from the Dodgers. If we are talking about trading Marshall to fill an OF void. I think Ethier would come a little cheaper. Obviously it would take more than just Marshall to get one of those guys (especially Kemp).

 

Will the Dodgers be able to move any of their higher-profile guys though, given their current financial state? Even if it meant shedding payroll, I'm assuming they can't until the bankruptcy/ownership situation is sorted.

I am not exactly sure, but I think they can go about business as usual. They might not be able to take on major contracts but I would think they could trade guys if the trade(s) kept the payroll about the same or lower. The trade(s) just might need to be approved by MLB or some sort of bankruptcy court or something along those lines.

[shnsajax]

I'm pretty sure you can operate as normal. Just have to approve expanding payroll before hand.

[XZero771679666304]

we have no one in AAA or AA aside from McNutt, Jackson, and Flarhety to speak of. Two of those three are blocked right now. pitching wise we are much less developed then these other teams. The reds have a top five system in all of baseball. The pirates arent far behind multiple position players and pitchers. The cardinals have shelby miller who is better than any prospect in our system. And Yes the brewers are depleted but guys like Peralta, Gamel and Rogers will contribute for them next year. Thornburg is a year away and looks like a future stud.

 

We need pitching bad and our guys have either been hurt or are a couple years away. The best way to improve is to make trades from areas of depth.

This is as pessimistic a view of the situation as it is conceivably possible to portray.

 

Pretty much. It paints the best possible picture for our rivals and the worst for us.

 

Besides, trading Barney isn't going net enough to improve our situation in any appreciable way. I wouldn't be opposed to trading him and he is easily replaceable from within, but if you're only going to get more organizational filler, what's the point?

[dew1679666265]

we have no one in AAA or AA aside from McNutt, Jackson, and Flarhety to speak of. Two of those three are blocked right now. pitching wise we are much less developed then these other teams. The reds have a top five system in all of baseball. The pirates arent far behind multiple position players and pitchers. The cardinals have shelby miller who is better than any prospect in our system. And Yes the brewers are depleted but guys like Peralta, Gamel and Rogers will contribute for them next year. Thornburg is a year away and looks like a future stud.

 

We need pitching bad and our guys have either been hurt or are a couple years away. The best way to improve is to make trades from areas of depth.

 

BA preseason top farm systems (post Garza trade):

Reds #6

Cubs #16

Pirates #19

Cardinals #24

Astros #26

Brewers #30

 

After signing DeVoss and Gretzky and if the rumors are true that we've signed Dugan, Maples, Vogelbach and Dunston, that 16th ranking is going to shoot up. Some of that ranking is on the strength of the low minors, but we've got far more than just Jackson, Flaherty and McNutt at AA and AAA.

 

The rest of the teams on the major league side in the division aren't exactly stellar either. The Brewers lead the division at 6 games over .500, which puts first in one other division - a tie with the Tigers to lead the AL Central. They'd be anywhere from 4 to about 12 games out of first in every other division. And they almost certainly will lose their best hitter (Fielder) after the year. If the Cubs are content to have Pena at first and their only real addition is a starting pitcher, then no they likely won't get better enough to contend next year (though it'd be a slim possibility). But if they use the money coming off the books well, get one of Pujols/Fielder and sign a guy like CJ Wilson, then there's no reason why they can't be right in the thick of the NL Central next season.

[XZero771679666304]

The only team in the division that you could look at and say "that team has a good chance to be really tough for a few years" is the Reds.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The only team in the division that you could look at and say "that team has a good chance to be really tough for a few years" is the Reds.

 

Don't forget the Cards. If they can somehow retain Pujols and Wainwright, and Miller and Martinez pan out, they'll be very tough, especially if they keep Rasmus and he hits his full potential.

[squally1313]

I love Marshall as much as the next guy, but he's a reliever, and he's about to get a lot more expensive. The best way to handle the bullpen is to keep a group of young, team-controlled guys in the upper minor leagues, and plug the best 6 or 7 in for the year. Maybe pay one guy bigger money that can be your closer/high leverage guy, but we already have that in Marmol. As already mentioned, we have a bunch of lefties that are ready/near ready. They probably won't be as good as Marshall, but the money saved and the return we could get for Marshall more than make up for it.

 

I'm assuming this won't end up being the final trade (if there is one), but if the Sox land Rasmus for Thornton and a midlevel prospect or something, I'm going to be furious. Not that I think the Cardinals would ever trade Rasmus to us, but the idea of Rasmus and Jackson (and Kemp?) in the outfield for the next 10 years makes me happy in the pants area.

[XZero771679666304]

The only team in the division that you could look at and say "that team has a good chance to be really tough for a few years" is the Reds.

 

Don't forget the Cards. If they can somehow retain Pujols and Wainwright, and Miller and Martinez pan out, they'll be very tough, especially if they keep Rasmus and he hits his full potential.

 

 

That's a lot of ifs. It could happen, but I wouldn't count on it. Part of the problem they and crew now face is that they don't have many trade chips going forward. Any big move they make will cost them Rasmus or Miller, and they'll have to address that pen if they want to be really good. That, and I think Albert's best days are behind him. They have a chance to be consistently good, but not a team you look at and see a potential run of dominance.

 

The Reds have their issues, but a lot of big league talent and a well stocked farm system. They're the only team in the division that can currently make that claim.

[imb]

"Guys like Barney are a dime a dozen. We should trade him for a nice return!"

 

oh boy just like that huh

[XZero771679666304]

I love Marshall as much as the next guy, but he's a reliever, and he's about to get a lot more expensive. The best way to handle the bullpen is to keep a group of young, team-controlled guys in the upper minor leagues, and plug the best 6 or 7 in for the year. Maybe pay one guy bigger money that can be your closer/high leverage guy, but we already have that in Marmol. As already mentioned, we have a bunch of lefties that are ready/near ready. They probably won't be as good as Marshall, but the money saved and the return we could get for Marshall more than make up for it.

 

I'm assuming this won't end up being the final trade (if there is one), but if the Sox land Rasmus for Thornton and a midlevel prospect or something, I'm going to be furious. Not that I think the Cardinals would ever trade Rasmus to us, but the idea of Rasmus and Jackson (and Kemp?) in the outfield for the next 10 years makes me happy in the pants area.

 

The fact that Marshall is a non-closer reliever will diminish any return, as well as the money he'll get. I don't see him getting "a lot" more expensive, nor do I see a compelling reason to deal him.

[squally1313]

I love Marshall as much as the next guy, but he's a reliever, and he's about to get a lot more expensive. The best way to handle the bullpen is to keep a group of young, team-controlled guys in the upper minor leagues, and plug the best 6 or 7 in for the year. Maybe pay one guy bigger money that can be your closer/high leverage guy, but we already have that in Marmol. As already mentioned, we have a bunch of lefties that are ready/near ready. They probably won't be as good as Marshall, but the money saved and the return we could get for Marshall more than make up for it.

 

I'm assuming this won't end up being the final trade (if there is one), but if the Sox land Rasmus for Thornton and a midlevel prospect or something, I'm going to be furious. Not that I think the Cardinals would ever trade Rasmus to us, but the idea of Rasmus and Jackson (and Kemp?) in the outfield for the next 10 years makes me happy in the pants area.

 

The fact that Marshall is a non-closer reliever will diminish any return, as well as the money he'll get. I don't see him getting "a lot" more expensive, nor do I see a compelling reason to deal him.

 

I think he's regarded very highly around the league, and a lot of playoff teams would think he would help a lot in October as a lefty specialist (even though he's more than that). In terms of salary, I can't really see him getting less than $5 or $6 million. If one of Gaub, Beliveau, etc from that list posted earlier can give you 75% of Marshall's production at 10% of the cost, isn't that preferrable?

[Sammy Sofa]

How often do you see non-closers netting decent returns? How do you know he's highly regarded around the league? Why do you think he's going to be able to double or even triple his annual salary as a soft-tossing non-closer?

[squally1313]

He's making $3.1 million next year, in the second year of a two year contract that avoided arbitration. If he does the same thing he's been doing for the next year and a half, and then goes on the open market, you don't think there will be a single team out there who would think that he might be an upgrade over their current closer? Thornton just got 2 years/$12 million for 2012-2013. Isn't that as close of a comp as you can get?

[Sammy Sofa]

Marshall is getting over $3 million this year because his 2-year deal is backloaded, so it's not like he's making over $6 million over the course of it; the total is about $4.3 million. Thornton got the money he got because of his previous 3 seasons with the Sox (he was better than Marshall) and because he was signed with the intention of making him the closer.

[squally1313]

Marshall is getting over $3 million this year because his 2-year deal is backloaded, so it's not like he's making over $6 million over the course of it; the total is about $4.3 million. Thornton got the money he got because of his previous 3 seasons with the Sox (he was better than Marshall) and because he was signed with the intention of making him the closer.

 

So you don't think any team would want him to be their closer if he continues his current production through next season?

[Backtobanks]

Marshall is getting over $3 million this year because his 2-year deal is backloaded, so it's not like he's making over $6 million over the course of it; the total is about $4.3 million. Thornton got the money he got because of his previous 3 seasons with the Sox (he was better than Marshall) and because he was signed with the intention of making him the closer.

 

So you don't think any team would want him to be their closer if he continues his current production through next season?

 

Marshall is as good as any of them, but there's a reason most teams don't have soft-tossing lefties as their closers.

[Sammy Sofa]

Marshall is getting over $3 million this year because his 2-year deal is backloaded, so it's not like he's making over $6 million over the course of it; the total is about $4.3 million. Thornton got the money he got because of his previous 3 seasons with the Sox (he was better than Marshall) and because he was signed with the intention of making him the closer.

 

So you don't think any team would want him to be their closer if he continues his current production through next season?

 

Probably not. Most teams don't sink decent money into a reliever that isn't already tagged as a closer to be their new closer.

[dew1679666265]

Probably not. Most teams don't sink decent money into a reliever that isn't already tagged as a closer to be their new closer.

 

I could see a team signing Marshall to be their closer, but they're not going to pay him like a top shelf closer. Just like they wouldn't give us closer value in a trade either.