Gammons on Wrigley

[J.R.]

I recall Gammons shilling for the Yawkey Trust in the early '00s - he had several columns banging the drums for a new park, saying the Red Sox could never be successful in Fenway.

 

His Wrigley comments seem quite complimentary relative to that stuff.

 

Edit: found one.

 

http://espn.go.com/gammons/s/0523.html

[Scotti]

has anybody in the Chicago land area (newspaper/media) suggested rebuilding each side from dugout up and keep the front facade and the bleachers, thus giving players a new lockeroom and removing the steel girders out of view of the fans?

 

The media have not suggested this but the Cubs have. One side per year and not lose any games (i.e. not have to play in the Cell or Soldier Field). However, it isn't from the dugout up but rather creating a new sub-basement. They are investigating whether the water table is at a significant enough depth.

[Scotti]

“The problem that (Ricketts) has, and the Ricketts family has a serious issue, is they’re going to have to understand it’s not only rebuilding personnel,” Gammons said Friday on "The Mully and Hanley Show" on WSCR-AM 670. “They got to make that ballpark livable, it’s a dump, Wrigley Field. They’re going to have to spent $200-and-something million on re-renovating Wrigley Field, do what the Boston owners did with Fenway Park. And the investment is far greater than, I think, maybe they realize. That the amount of work that Wrigley Field needs is, there’s a ton of money that has to go into rebuilding that place.”

 

“So they’ve got it on both ways,” Gammons said. “You know, they have to figure out: ‘OK, we’re assuming unmovable contracts in Soriano, [Carlos] Zambrano, a couple of other guys, and we need to invest somewhere between $100 and $250 million in the ballpark.’ And that’s a lot of investment ... The Cubs are a gold mine and they are one of the three or four national teams, but at the same time, they require a lot of work.”

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-gammons-wrigley-dump-tying-ricketts-hands-20110610,0,701998.story

 

I know that this is just piling on Gammons but where the hell was he when the Cubs were trying to structure a $300 million dollar deal with the county/city/state AND talking about chucking in $200 million of the family's money ($500 million dollars total for Wrigley and the Triangle Complex)?

 

That said, aside from his jumping on the Ricketts as if they were clueless, this is the kind of press the team needs to get the city/county/state of their respective derrieres.

[SouthSideRyan]

Next person that suggests rebuilding the grandstands in the same place without obstructions is getting shanked.

[DivineBovine]

I'm all for keeping Wrigley. But if a new park wins them a WS, I wouldn't care if Wrigley burned down.

 

He has a point that they could be making a ton more money in another park.

[Tarver]

“The problem that (Ricketts) has, and the Ricketts family has a serious issue, is they’re going to have to understand it’s not only rebuilding personnel,” Gammons said Friday on "The Mully and Hanley Show" on WSCR-AM 670. “They got to make that ballpark livable, it’s a dump, Wrigley Field. They’re going to have to spent $200-and-something million on re-renovating Wrigley Field, do what the Boston owners did with Fenway Park. And the investment is far greater than, I think, maybe they realize. That the amount of work that Wrigley Field needs is, there’s a ton of money that has to go into rebuilding that place.”

 

“So they’ve got it on both ways,” Gammons said. “You know, they have to figure out: ‘OK, we’re assuming unmovable contracts in Soriano, [Carlos] Zambrano, a couple of other guys, and we need to invest somewhere between $100 and $250 million in the ballpark.’ And that’s a lot of investment ... The Cubs are a gold mine and they are one of the three or four national teams, but at the same time, they require a lot of work.”

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-gammons-wrigley-dump-tying-ricketts-hands-20110610,0,701998.story

 

I know that this is just piling on Gammons but where the hell was he when the Cubs were trying to structure a $300 million dollar deal with the county/city/state AND talking about chucking in $200 million of the family's money ($500 million dollars total for Wrigley and the Triangle Complex)?

 

That said, aside from his jumping on the Ricketts as if they were clueless, this is the kind of press the team needs to get the city/county/state of their respective derrieres.

 

The city/county/state can't (and shouldn't) contribute any money at all to this project. Yeah, the Bears & Sox got it, but it's the Trib's fault for not striking while the iron was hot.

 

They can handle this privately if they get creative. If they have to call it "Pepto Bismol presents Wrigley Field" so be it.

[questionmarkgrace]

“The problem that (Ricketts) has, and the Ricketts family has a serious issue, is they’re going to have to understand it’s not only rebuilding personnel,” Gammons said Friday on "The Mully and Hanley Show" on WSCR-AM 670. “They got to make that ballpark livable, it’s a dump, Wrigley Field. They’re going to have to spent $200-and-something million on re-renovating Wrigley Field, do what the Boston owners did with Fenway Park. And the investment is far greater than, I think, maybe they realize. That the amount of work that Wrigley Field needs is, there’s a ton of money that has to go into rebuilding that place.”

 

“So they’ve got it on both ways,” Gammons said. “You know, they have to figure out: ‘OK, we’re assuming unmovable contracts in Soriano, [Carlos] Zambrano, a couple of other guys, and we need to invest somewhere between $100 and $250 million in the ballpark.’ And that’s a lot of investment ... The Cubs are a gold mine and they are one of the three or four national teams, but at the same time, they require a lot of work.”

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-gammons-wrigley-dump-tying-ricketts-hands-20110610,0,701998.story

 

I know that this is just piling on Gammons but where the hell was he when the Cubs were trying to structure a $300 million dollar deal with the county/city/state AND talking about chucking in $200 million of the family's money ($500 million dollars total for Wrigley and the Triangle Complex)?

 

That said, aside from his jumping on the Ricketts as if they were clueless, this is the kind of press the team needs to get the city/county/state of their respective derrieres.

 

The city/county/state can't (and shouldn't) contribute any money at all to this project. Yeah, the Bears & Sox got it, but it's the Trib's fault for not striking while the iron was hot.

 

They can handle this privately if they get creative. If they have to call it "Pepto Bismol presents Wrigley Field" so be it.

 

 

I dont mind giving tax breaks or even some direct funding but what they proposed at the time was a bit ambitions considering the economic climate. You might even say arrogant.

 

But back to the focus of this thread yes wrigley is a dump. I don't know of any other stadium that has nets holding up crumbling concrete over patrons heads. Yes it has its charm, it is our dump for sure, but it needs to be remodeled on so many levels. Gammons is spot on here, although he usually has no idea what is going on, I think Ricketts severely underestimated the teams talent level, attendence numbers/ticket sales/fan reception to ticket increases, wrigley fields problems, etc. Not sure why this is even up for debate, its pretty clear.

[Benchwarmer]

There's no question it's a dump. While it's quaint with the manual scoreboard, the ivy, the brick and all, at some point the Cubs will have to build a new stadium. You can only rehab Wrigley so much where it doesn't make sense. And I don't see the funds from the city or state to kick in any time soon. If you want to keep a Cubs park in Wrigleyville, what about the school land just north of Wrigley?

 

One interesting proposal I remember reading about was when Chicago was organizing their Olympic bid. A new island would be built off of Montrose Harbor and a new stadium constructed, which would have a number of Olympic events. The stadium would then be partially retro fitted and the Cubs would take it over. I would imagine the cost was just so prohibitive to make it work.

[Sammy Sofa]

I think Ricketts severely underestimated the teams talent level, attendence numbers/ticket sales/fan reception to ticket increases, wrigley fields problems, etc. Not sure why this is even up for debate, its pretty clear.

 

Really? You don't think the idea that the Ricketts family, billionaires, severely underestimated the financial situation of the Cubs, but YOU could see it clearly when they couldn't...is up for debate?

[J.R.]

If miserly old P.K. could cough up the cash to do this much in the early 1970s, then surely Ricketts can pull off something more substantial now. People talk about a renovation like it's a moon landing or somesuch, and it's just not that difficult.

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/southfork76/renovationsjpg.jpg

[82TonyM]

I dont think its a dump.

 

I would rather they invest in the team on the field than in Wrigley.

[Sammy Sofa]

I dont think its a dump.

 

Well, to be blunt, you're wrong. The place is literally falling apart and it's largely inadequate to deal with the demands placed on it when the Cubs are actually drawing in sellout or near-sellout crowds. Improving Wrigley would ultimately mean making more money down the line, which helps the team.

[Guest]

It might also assist landing some of the FA players we want to attract. Let's face it, the player amenities at Wrigley is always a checkbox in the other team's favor when guys are deciding where to play.

 

It isn't going to be a huge factor in the decision, but it may tilt some guys away from here or cause us to have to pay a little extra to get them.

[82TonyM]

I dont think its a dump.

 

Well, to be blunt, you're wrong. The place is literally falling apart and it's largely inadequate to deal with the demands placed on it when the Cubs are actually drawing in sellout or near-sellout crowds. Improving Wrigley would ultimately mean making more money down the line, which helps the team.

 

In what way is it inadequate? Perhaps your expectations are higher than mine.

[XZero771679666304]

Of course Wrigley needs heavy renovation. The grandstands are falling apart, the player's facilities are abysmal, etc.

 

But the notion that the Ricketts' had no idea what they got themselves into is ludicrous. Particularly since they've been actively campaigning for these renovations and trying to raise huge sums of money to implement them.

[javy knows my name]

I think Ricketts severely underestimated the teams talent level, attendence numbers/ticket sales/fan reception to ticket increases, wrigley fields problems, etc. Not sure why this is even up for debate, its pretty clear.

 

Really? You don't think the idea that the Ricketts family, billionaires, severely underestimated the financial situation of the Cubs, but YOU could see it clearly when they couldn't...is up for debate?

 

You're not wrong, but holy slippery slope

[Magnetic Curses]

Of course Wrigley needs heavy renovation. The grandstands are falling apart, the player's facilities are abysmal, etc.

 

But the notion that the Ricketts' had no idea what they got themselves into is ludicrous. Particularly since they've been actively campaigning for these renovations and trying to raise huge sums of money to implement them.

 

exactly. there was a lot made about what was going on with wrigley well before ricketts bought them. I'm sure they worked that into the plans before paying nearly a billion for the team.

[Sammy Sofa]

I dont think its a dump.

 

Well, to be blunt, you're wrong. The place is literally falling apart and it's largely inadequate to deal with the demands placed on it when the Cubs are actually drawing in sellout or near-sellout crowds. Improving Wrigley would ultimately mean making more money down the line, which helps the team.

 

In what way is it inadequate? Perhaps your expectations are higher than mine.

 

The seating capacity is too small, there's too many terrible seats, the various amenities are too spaced out and/or too few and, most importantly, it is literally falling apart.

[questionmarkgrace]

I think Ricketts severely underestimated the teams talent level, attendence numbers/ticket sales/fan reception to ticket increases, wrigley fields problems, etc. Not sure why this is even up for debate, its pretty clear.

 

Really? You don't think the idea that the Ricketts family, billionaires, severely underestimated the financial situation of the Cubs, but YOU could see it clearly when they couldn't...is up for debate?

 

yes. Anyone with a half-assed economics degree could have seen this coming. And their direct actions show that they underestimated the costs of being a team owner.

[Sammy Sofa]

I think Ricketts severely underestimated the teams talent level, attendence numbers/ticket sales/fan reception to ticket increases, wrigley fields problems, etc. Not sure why this is even up for debate, its pretty clear.

 

Really? You don't think the idea that the Ricketts family, billionaires, severely underestimated the financial situation of the Cubs, but YOU could see it clearly when they couldn't...is up for debate?

 

yes. Anyone with a half-assed economics degree could have seen this coming. And their direct actions show that they underestimated the costs of being a team owner.

 

No, they really don't. Your expectations for owners that have owned the team for a season and a half and inherited a bloated, mis-spent payroll (that's only now finally going to start coming off the books en masse after this season and the next) are unrealistic. That you think what's happening now is something that has taken the Ricketts by surprise, or could have been avoided, is absurd. Yes, Hendry should be gone already...but here's the reality you need to face: this season would be little different, if at all, if Hendry had been fired after last season. And to think that they had no idea of the issues of Wrigley itself is even more ridiculous.

 

And ticket prices aren't the problem. No, they're not helping, but the crappy team is far and away the reason they're not selling tickets. Put a good team on the field and people will, for better or for worse, pay the higher ticket rates. Once the team is competitive again the higher ticket prices are moot. If the tickets were significantly cheaper this season than what they are the stands would still look half-empty.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

yes. Anyone with a half-assed economics degree could have seen this coming. And their direct actions show that they underestimated the costs of being a team owner.

 

Name these actions. 3...2...1... go!

[Brett]

I think Ricketts severely underestimated the teams talent level, attendence numbers/ticket sales/fan reception to ticket increases, wrigley fields problems, etc. Not sure why this is even up for debate, its pretty clear.

 

Really? You don't think the idea that the Ricketts family, billionaires, severely underestimated the financial situation of the Cubs, but YOU could see it clearly when they couldn't...is up for debate?

 

yes. Anyone with a half-assed economics degree could have seen this coming. And their direct actions show that they underestimated the costs of being a team owner.

 

If only the Ricketts had talked to just ONE person with a half-assed economics degree, they could have avoided all of this hand-wringing.

[Sammy Sofa]

Unfortunately they only hire people with no-assed economics degrees. Really a poor decision in hindsight.

[questionmarkgrace]

Unfortunately they only hire people with no-assed economics degrees. Really a poor decision in hindsight.

 

1) Definitely the team was going to be pretty bad this year no matter who the gm or the owner due to the roster from 2010. But if he cleaned house immediately we probably could have gotten a gm in there who could have actually made some moves in offseason 09 to make the roster better.

2) did they over pay for the team? yes multiple articles in fortune and in the trib suggest that the team itself was worth between 450-720 million on the highside. they overpaid. Is this hindsight? I dont think so, they paid over 300 million more than any other team in baseball was sold for. But beyond that, the tribune article came out before the team was sold. Did they somehow jump 200 million dollar based on the 08 season? If so that shows that the Ricketts thought the major league talent was pretty good, not overpaid and aging quickly. For reference the red sox weresold for 600mil in 02. are the cubs worth more than the red sox?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0704030231apr03,0,1173811.story

 

3) did they underestimate the effect of ticket increases on the fans? I would say so, this is the first time in the last 30 years they have offered half price beers and cheaper tickets to try to draw fans in. The cubs have now jacked their tickets up three years in a row. The average ticket going from $42 in 08' to in 11' 52.32. The point is if they could have kept the tickets from being the highest in baseball they could probably still pack the place as Joe Ricketts suggested.

 

4) did they underestimate public opinion on the use of government funds to pay for the team? Certainly, even Ricketts would agree. He suggests that "The plan that we threw out there was one that was relatively thoughtful but the timing and the explaining and the presentation of it probably could have been better,'' Ricketts said. He claims it was relatively thoughtful I think it lacked creativity and sensitivity.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0324-haugh-cubs-chicago--20110323,0,7450187.column

 

5) did they underestimate the amount of debt accrued by purchasing and operating the cubs? Yes inaddition to the roster bottleneck, they are on mlb's debt list for a large amount of financed debt not pertaining to the roster, which is in many ways worse than having roster debt because such large amounts of money are financed at a higher rate of interest. The problem is it is hard to pay off 10 times the debt than the income your team generates(which is what gets you on the list) when the team is playing so poorly and people arent coming to the games. So now they have to pump more money into daily operations just to get their debt down to manageable levels. Half of the Ricketts family's net worth was invested into the cubs with there purchase. Do you think they are going to be willing to liquidate and gamble with much more of the other half? I dont. this goes back to point 3, they need public funds to subsidize wrigley field otherwise they will be having to dip into their own pockets again. sure long term it looks good, if the debt doesnt swallow them up in the short-term.

 

 

THese are some things they could have avoided with some savy businessmen at the helm. But Ricketts was ill prepared and decided to stick with the tribune guys like crane kenney. If he knew what he was doing he would have avoided these things, by putting the right people in place whou could have anticipated these potential problems. As it is our minor league system needs better coaches and scouts throughout. THey need to stop hiring former players with no instruction experience and start getting some real player development guys. Our farm has been crap other than pitching for many years and these same scouts and coaches are still in place.

 

You guys may think he's doing a good job, I expected more than tribune redux. he has followed their plan to a t and is paying for it now.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So if the owner had only fired the management, hired someone to get better players, made the tickets super cheap, that would have proven they were smart.

 

That was a whole lot of words just to go down the perfect generic laundry list that fans make about sports teams.