05/17 CUBS (Garza) @ Cincinnati (Volquez) 6:10 CDT, CSN TV

[MADD_DOG_31]

i'm baffled as to how you can think that a union as powerful as the MLBPA has no wording in their collective bargaining agreement about how much time that MLB organizations can ask of their players.

 

The point is moot because a couple extra hours of practice would not cause a stir by players because it would be media suicide

 

I would like to see this wording tho if u could find it...would b an interesting read

[TruffleShuffle]

i'm baffled as to how you can think that a union as powerful as the MLBPA has no wording in their collective bargaining agreement about how much time that MLB organizations can ask of their players.

 

The point is moot because a couple extra hours of practice would not cause a stir by players because it would be media suicide

 

if the team just started making them come in two hours early every day for work and also come in on every day off? no i think that the public would feel that an employer is wrong in suddenly asking like 15 hours a week of their employees' free time without any change in compensation.

[MADD_DOG_31]

i'm baffled as to how you can think that a union as powerful as the MLBPA has no wording in their collective bargaining agreement about how much time that MLB organizations can ask of their players.

 

The point is moot because a couple extra hours of practice would not cause a stir by players because it would be media suicide

 

if the team just started making them come in two hours early every day for work and also come in on every day off? no i think that the public would feel that an employer is wrong in suddenly asking like 15 hours a week of their employees' free time without any change in compensation.

 

salaried employees are not paid by the hour....and when essentially the fans pay the players salary and the team sucks i dont see much sympathy coming their way when they say they dont want to put in any extra practice

[Little Slide Rooter]

This conversation makes me think of Roger Dorn showing Lou Brown the clause in his contract that states he doesnt have to do any extra calisthenics, and Lou pissing on the contract.

[Guest]

Quade can certainly ask the players to come in early to work on things. I'm sure they'd do it for a while, too. But if it becomes an every day thing, the players will rebel after a while and then he'll lose the ability to manage them at all.

 

To me, the bigger question is whether this is a significant problem relative to the other teams in MLB. Defense was the first thing discussed. That came on the heels of a lousy defensive performance, of course. Unfortunately, the data shows that the team is pretty much average defensively.

 

The real issue is that we expect perfection out of these guys who are making millions to play the game we love. We see players botch a routine play and think, "Even I could have made that play!" So can the player, though, and they make those plays with extreme reliability. Even the worst defenders on the team are extremely reliable when compared to the general population. Heck, even when compared to the population of people that play the game throughout college, the minors and within MLB.

 

There really are no "bad" defenders on this team. Castro has the typical issues you'd expect of a 20 year old. Soriano will occasionally have lousy reads off the bat on a fly ball that make him look silly, but takes pretty good routes once the tracks it and is usually fast enough to recover. Aramis has worked hard to turn himself into a league average or better defender at 3B, though age and accumulated injuries are taking a toll on his range. Barney and Pena are both excellent defenders. Fukudome is as sound as it gets in RF. Byrd doesn't have the speed of other CF's, but is very good within his range. I guess I just don't see where the problem lies on this team that requires the extreme step of coming in another two hours earlier - they're already coming in well before game time to take hitting and fielding practice.

 

As for all the other "fundamentals" in question - I don't believe there's any more of a problem there than exists on defense. There's simply a problem with our perception. Failures stand out much more than all the times things get executed correctly.

 

It is an easy storyline after a game like yesterday to say this team is struggling because of bad defense and an inability to play the game right. The simple truth is that this team is struggling because they have lacked power from expected sources and they lack patience at the plate, leading to an inability to score runs consistently. They are struggling because their 4 & 5 starters went down in the first week of the season and did not have adequate backup plans in place. They are struggling through inconsistency from their 1-3 starters.

 

"Fundamentally" they aren't hitting well and they aren't pitching well. Those are the biggest problems with this team - not errors, hitting behind runners, sacrificing and other "fundamentals".

[TruffleShuffle]

Unfortunately, the data shows that the team is pretty much average defensively.

 

the data shows the cubs having the second-worst defensive efficiency in baseball, so either the pitchers have been unlucky or the cubs' defense is lousy. the cubs' LD% against is high (6th highest in baseball) but the GO/FO ratio is actually more fly ball heavy than average (fly balls are more likely to be outs than ground balls), so this suggests that the cubs' defensive performance has been a problem.

 

fwiw, the team UZR is worse than about 2/3 of the teams in baseball, which suggests that they are poor but not a complete mess.

[Guest]

Unfortunately, the data shows that the team is pretty much average defensively.

 

the data shows the cubs having the second-worst defensive efficiency in baseball, so either the pitchers have been unlucky or the cubs' defense is lousy. the cubs' LD% against is high (6th highest in baseball) but the GO/FO ratio is actually more fly ball heavy than average (fly balls are more likely to be outs than ground balls), so this suggests that the cubs' defensive performance has been a problem.

 

fwiw, the team UZR is worse than about 2/3 of the teams in baseball, which suggests that they are poor but not a complete mess.

I was referring more to the error rate in response to other posts in the thread.

 

I'd agree that there are some players on the team with significant range issues. None of the OF's have great range. Castro is okay on range, but not great. Aramis appears to me to be reaching Ron Cey territory (dive to left, dive to right). I'm guessing the only defender with well above average range right now is Barney.

[Sammy Sofa]

I never knew you could fix deteriorating baseball skills with good ol' gritty fundamentals.

 

tonights game had nothing to do w/ deteriorating skills

 

Pretty sure the Reds taking the lead had a lot to do with a busted ass reliever on the mound making a bad decision and a fading 3B who can't do much about it.

 

That could not be more wrong and everyone that knows baseball at all knows it

 

Really? So if they just practiced harder they would have pulled it off? That's amazing!

 

Is your board name in reference to Maddux? Were you always screaming at him through the TV to do some more crunches?

[rocket]

thank god money's a little tight in the rocket household, otherwise i would have witnessed one of these 2 games in person

[TruffleShuffle]

thank god money's a little tight in the rocket household, otherwise i would have witnessed one of these 2 games in person

 

given the attendance figures the reds have been posting, it would appear that nobody in the greater cincinnati area has any money.

[jersey cubs fan]

The real issue is that we expect perfection out of these guys who are making millions to play the game we love. We see players botch a routine play and think, "Even I could have made that play!" So can the player, though, and they make those plays with extreme reliability. Even the worst defenders on the team are extremely reliable when compared to the general population. Heck, even when compared to the population of people that play the game throughout college, the minors and within MLB.

 

There really are no "bad" defenders on this team.

 

This is a bunch of pointless nonsense along the lines of critizing fans who point out that the worst hitters in the league are terrible without pointing out that they are only terrible in comparison to the rest of the best baseball players in the world.

[nick23]

This conversation makes me think of Roger Dorn showing Lou Brown the clause in his contract that states he doesnt have to do any extra calisthenics, and Lou pissing on the contract.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Elwood]

That was a real [expletive] show.