Cubs interested in a bunch of subpar starters

[Schwarber Fan]

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=MLB&id=3475&line=308966&spln=1

 

Aaron Harang: Cubs interested in Harang, Vazquez, Padilla

Aaron Harang - S - CIN - Nov. 20 - 9:28 am et

 

Cubs GM Jim Hendry met with the agents of Aaron Harang, Javier Vazquez and Vicente Padilla at the winter meetings.

The Cubs are looking for some stability in their rotation beyond Ryan Dempster, and all three veterans would seem to be a decent fit. Padilla, though, hasn't made 30 starts since 2006 and pitching only 95 innings this past season due to a bulging disk in his neck. Vazquez seems likely to wind up with the Marlins. Harang has had strong peripherals in recent seasons despite a lack of success in general. Nov. 20 - 9:28 am et

Source: Chicago Sun-Times

[bcl412]

I could have sworn that I read that they wanted innings eaters. Seems weird that they would look at Harang and Padilla in that circumstance.

[CUBZ99]

If Rothschild was still there, I would be all for getting Harang or Vazquez on a one year deal.

[The Logan]

Pirates designated LHP Zach Duke for assignment.

Pirates GM Neal Huntington said the team tried to negotiate a deal with Duke and also talked to other teams about a trade, but neither proved successful. Duke had a decent 2009 season but otherwise has been one of the worst pitchers in baseball since his impressive rookie year. The southpaw posted a 5.72 ERA and 1.65 WHIP in 2010 and has a career K/9 rate of 4.7. He'll probably have to settle for a minor league deal with a spring training invite somewhere.

 

Figured this was appropriate to post here.

[Post Count Padder]

If we're so intent on a starter, I wouldn't hate Vazquez on a one-year deal. Harang wouldn't be a bad buy low candidate, but I'd be worried about him being considered to contribute greatly. I want no part of Padilla.

[rocket]

If Rothschild was still there, I would be all for getting Harang or Vazquez on a one year deal.

 

I'm for it without Rothschild. He's one of the best pitchers in baseball if you pretend he was never a Yankee. If he comes cheap Hendry should be all over that.

[USSoccer]

Yeah, I have no use for the Harangutang, but Vasquez would be a solid signing.

[Backtobanks]

Yeah, I have no use for the Harangutang, but Vasquez would be a solid signing.

 

Not at these prices (or anywhere near these prices) :

 

From MLBTR:

Edwin Rodriguez Met With Javier Vazquez Today

By Mike Axisa [November 20 at 2:54pm CST]

3:33pm: Joe Capozzi of The Palm Beach Post reports that Vazquez is "said to be seeking" a three-year deal worth $33MM, almost identical to his last contract. I guess there's no harm in asking.

[nick23]

Would Padilla take a 1 year deal? Wasn't he pretty good last year when he actually pitched?

[Cubswin11]

I wouldn't mind going after Vazquez on a 1 year deal with an option for a 2nd. But wouldn't want to get near 3 year $33m. What about Chris Young? If we aren't going to spend a lot of money and want a guy on a 1 year deal he might be a good candidate, plus he looked good last year when he go back from injury.

[dew1679666265]

Would Padilla take a 1 year deal? Wasn't he pretty good last year when he actually pitched?

 

3.91 xFIP with a 7.26 k/9 and 2.27 BB/9. That's much, much better than he's ever been before, though, so the likelihood of him keeping it up is pretty small. Maybe worth a minor league invite, but no more.

[Fro]

If Rothschild was still there, I would be all for getting Harang or Vazquez on a one year deal.

 

Yeah, if someone would get Harang fixed he can eat a bunch of innings... he was as good as Z at one point.

[KingCubsFan]

If Rothschild was still there, I would be all for getting Harang or Vazquez on a one year deal.

 

Yeah, if someone would get Harang fixed he can eat a bunch of innings... he was as good as Z at one point.

And, like Z, he's also been Dusty'd.

[The Logan]

If Rothschild was still there, I would be all for getting Harang or Vazquez on a one year deal.

 

Yeah, if someone would get Harang fixed he can eat a bunch of innings... he was as good as Z at one point.

And, like Z, he's also been Dusty'd.

 

Yeah, cause Z's arm really deteriorated after Dusty left

[KingCubsFan]

If Rothschild was still there, I would be all for getting Harang or Vazquez on a one year deal.

 

Yeah, if someone would get Harang fixed he can eat a bunch of innings... he was as good as Z at one point.

And, like Z, he's also been Dusty'd.

 

Yeah, cause Z's arm really deteriorated after Dusty left

I'm not sure how you could argue it hasn't.

[Northside Blues]

If Rothschild was still there, I would be all for getting Harang or Vazquez on a one year deal.

 

Yeah, if someone would get Harang fixed he can eat a bunch of innings... he was as good as Z at one point.

And, like Z, he's also been Dusty'd.

 

Yeah, cause Z's arm really deteriorated after Dusty left

I'm not sure how you could argue it hasn't.

 

Pitcher's arm strength peaks in their early to mid 20s. Young Zambrano got away with poor command because of his velocity. Even though his velocity is only a notch down from where it once was, it's allowed hitters to square up more often and hit more consistently off of him, causing a drop in his production. Had Zambrano learned control to compensate, perhaps it'd be a different story. He hasn't. Dusty Baker had nothing to do with Zambrano not being as good as he was circa 2004.

[KingCubsFan]

I'm not sure how you could argue it hasn't.

 

Pitcher's arm strength peaks in their early to mid 20s. Young Zambrano got away with poor command because of his velocity. Even though his velocity is only a notch down from where it once was, it's allowed hitters to square up more often and hit more consistently off of him, causing a drop in his production. Had Zambrano learned control to compensate, perhaps it'd be a different story. He hasn't. Dusty Baker had nothing to do with Zambrano not being as good as he was circa 2004.

So your position is that all of the concern with how Dusty Baker handled pitchers like Z was a waste of time, as it was inevitable his career would begin a steady decline at the age of 26?

[MSG T]

I'm not sure how you could argue it hasn't.

 

Pitcher's arm strength peaks in their early to mid 20s. Young Zambrano got away with poor command because of his velocity. Even though his velocity is only a notch down from where it once was, it's allowed hitters to square up more often and hit more consistently off of him, causing a drop in his production. Had Zambrano learned control to compensate, perhaps it'd be a different story. He hasn't. Dusty Baker had nothing to do with Zambrano not being as good as he was circa 2004.

So your position is that all of the concern with how Dusty Baker handled pitchers like Z was a waste of time, as it was inevitable his career would begin a steady decline at the age of 26?

 

While I think NB's description has an effect, albeit possibly a small one, to me the major difference is that Z's mechanics aren't the train wreck that Prior and Wood's are. He has decent mechanics, which should have allowed him to escape Dusty without as much damage. Plus, going back to Baseball Prospectus' PAP chart (I know, it's not the end all be all), he has never been abused the way Wood and Prior were in 2003.

 

Between their horrible mechanics and what Dusty did to them in 03, that pretty much explains Prior and Wood. Z is a completely different animal. His problems are largely command, and keeping his head on straight.

[KingCubsFan]

I'm not sure how you could argue it hasn't.

 

Pitcher's arm strength peaks in their early to mid 20s. Young Zambrano got away with poor command because of his velocity. Even though his velocity is only a notch down from where it once was, it's allowed hitters to square up more often and hit more consistently off of him, causing a drop in his production. Had Zambrano learned control to compensate, perhaps it'd be a different story. He hasn't. Dusty Baker had nothing to do with Zambrano not being as good as he was circa 2004.

So your position is that all of the concern with how Dusty Baker handled pitchers like Z was a waste of time, as it was inevitable his career would begin a steady decline at the age of 26?

 

While I think NB's description has an effect, albeit possibly a small one, to me the major difference is that Z's mechanics aren't the train wreck that Prior and Wood's are. He has decent mechanics, which should have allowed him to escape Dusty without as much damage. Plus, going back to Baseball Prospectus' PAP chart (I know, it's not the end all be all), he has never been abused the way Wood and Prior were in 2003.

 

Between their horrible mechanics and what Dusty did to them in 03, that pretty much explains Prior and Wood. Z is a completely different animal. His problems are largely command, and keeping his head on straight.

His pitcher abuse points from 2003-2008: 11, 3, 2, 2, 2, 7

I agree that Zambrano has better mechanics, and that's probably the only reason he's still an effective starter while the other two are not. And control is obviously a big problem as well. But I think it's wrong to say to say Dusty's abuse of Z during the early years in his career didn't have some sort of effect on his current decline. It certainly had an effect, along with the other factors mentioned.

[Guest]

Z's 2009-2010 are right there peripherally with his 2005-2006. He obviously had a couple down years, but his ERA+ never dipped below 118 and he's back to previous norms. "Decline" is a pretty loaded word to use to describe him.

[KingCubsFan]

Z's 2009-2010 are right there peripherally with his 2005-2006. He obviously had a couple down years, but his ERA+ never dipped below 118 and he's back to previous norms. "Decline" is a pretty loaded word to use to describe him.

Not sure about that. The WHIPs are higher and the hits are up, too. K/BB is pretty consistent.

[Guest]

Innings Pitched.

[CUBZ99]

I am impressed that we have heard little about the Cubs in regards to free agents so far this year. I realize most of that is do to the fact that he doesn't have much to spend, but in the past it seemed like he would be hell bent on acquiring certain types of players (i.e. relief pitchers, left handed or leadoff hitters etc.) and severely overpay because of his impatience.

[daske17]

I am disappointed that we have heard little about the Cubs in regards to free agents so far this year. I realize most of that is do to the fact that he doesn't have much to spend, but in the past it seemed like he would be hell bent on acquiring certain types of players (i.e. relief pitchers, left handed or leadoff hitters etc.) and severely overpay because of his impatience.

 

All we've heard is that the Cubs have no money and are pushing to upgrade Wrigley. I would have liked some movement on the free agent market considering the obvious needs this team has. I'm not saying pushing for bad players, but any news at this point would at least signal the team is looking to contend in 2011.

[Backtobanks]

From MLBTR:

 

Cubs Looking At Several Veteran Starters

By Mark Polishuk [November 27 at 5:54pm CST]

The Cubs have five starters tentatively pencilled into their 2011 rotation, but given the number of question marks on that staff, it's understandable that the team is looking to add a veteran innings-eater to the fold. ESPN.com's Jason A. Churchill reports that Chicago has "shown interest" in Jeremy Bonderman, Aaron Harang, Kevin Millwood and Javier Vazquez, and also cites a Chicago Sun-Times item connecting the team to Vicente Padilla. Churchill says the Cubs "kicked the tires on" Jon Garland before the right-hander signed with the Dodgers.

 

All five starters would make sense as low-cost additions; Vazquez has reportedly turned down a two-year, $20MM offer but it seems like he's more likely to end up in Florida or Washington than in Chicago. The Cubs are probably looking for a short-term deal, and Garland's $5MM pact with L.A. would likely be a good comparison point. That $5M salary (plus incentives and a 2012 vesting option) would likely be enough to land Millwood or Harang, and Bonderman would leap at that offer given his injury-riddled recent history.

 

Padilla is coming off the most solid season of the group and could command a bit more money or a second year, though he made only 16 starts in 2010 due to various nagging injuries. Churchill cites the Mets, Padres and Pirates as other teams that could use a starter that fits Padilla's profile.

 

Bonderman, Millwood and Vazquez all landed on Luke Adams' list of free agent pitchers that could benefit from a move to the NL, though pitching in a hitter-friendly park like Wrigley Field might not be what they had in mind. As we saw with the Garland signing, teams that play in pitcher's parks will have an advantage in finding extra arms for their rotation, especially when it comes to a pitchers like Bonderman or Harang who are trying to rebuild value.

 

Speaking of rebuilding value, there's also a chance that the Cubs could look at a higher-ceiling starter such as Brandon Webb. Fanhouse's Ed Price (via Twitter) hears from a source that Chicago has been "in talks' with Webb, who has also drawn interest from several other teams. Chicago is relatively close to Webb's home in Kentucky, which could help the Cubs in the bidding process.