Marmol extension?

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm perfectly fine with Marmol getting a 4 year, $20 mil deal to keep him on the team for the next 4 seasons.

 

Like I said, if he wants to offer an insane discount, go ahead. That's a $5m average, and he is going to get $5m this year alone.

[UMFan83]

I'm perfectly fine with Marmol getting a 4 year, $20 mil deal to keep him on the team for the next 4 seasons.

 

Like I said, if he wants to offer an insane discount, go ahead. That's a $5m average, and he is going to get $5m this year alone.

 

Crap I didnt realize that. I figured it was somewhere around $3 mil. I was thinking 3, 5, 8, 10. in the 4 years or something. So I guess 4, $26m, so maybe 4 $30 mil or 5, 7, 8, 10 each year

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm perfectly fine with Marmol getting a 4 year, $20 mil deal to keep him on the team for the next 4 seasons.

 

Like I said, if he wants to offer an insane discount, go ahead. That's a $5m average, and he is going to get $5m this year alone.

 

Crap I didnt realize that. I figured it was somewhere around $3 mil. I was thinking 3, 5, 8, 10. in the 4 years or something. So I guess 4, $26m, so maybe 4 $30 mil or 5, 7, 8, 10 each year

 

I think he made like 2.5 this year and would guess he makes in excess of 4.5 next year just through arbitration. Then next offseason will be his last arbitration year, and he will get around $9m if you comp him up against closers.

[mookie]

Anyone else really wishing we would shop the crap out of this guy right now?

[Sammy Sofa]

Anyone else really wishing we would shop the crap out of this guy right now?

 

Definitely. I actually wouldn't mind them shopping Soto, too. He's cheap now, but he's about to turn 28 and catchers tend to not last that long to begin with, nevermind ones who have had weight issues.

[davell]

What sucks is this: Soto's best years are going to be wasted by us. Having a C in his prime and not being paid big money at that time is a humongous asset to have. I wish we had the pieces to surround him with right now, but we don't and evidently we can't afford to go get them.

 

Next year, with over 40 mill coming off the books(but a very weak FA class) I guess it's POSSIBLE we could make some noise and give him some solid help. But, with his age and his past weight issues, it's really going to be tricky with him. His 3 arb years are more than enough for me, as far as keeping him goes. I wouldn't want to be the team that gives him a 3-4 year deal at THAT point, that's for sure.

 

I hate the thought of trading away an asset like this.(much moreso than dealing Marmol anyway). But, if we got back enough, I'd do it. But, it won't happen, as we're not going to go into "full-rebuild mode, even if it'd probably help us out longterm.

[Sammy Sofa]

What sucks is this: Soto's best years are going to be wasted by us. Having a C in his prime and not being paid big money at that time is a humongous asset to have. I wish we had the pieces to surround him with right now, but we don't and evidently we can't afford to go get them.

 

Yeah, that's my thinking towards him. His career window is likely relatively short enough as it is, and with the Cubs seemingly going with the rebuilding route for the foreseeable future, it really seems like Soto's value to the team would come more from the nice prospects package he could net them in a trade sooner rather than later.

[jersey cubs fan]

What sucks is this: Soto's best years are going to be wasted by us. Having a C in his prime and not being paid big money at that time is a humongous asset to have. I wish we had the pieces to surround him with right now, but we don't and evidently we can't afford to go get them.

 

Yeah, that's my thinking towards him. His career window is likely relatively short enough as it is, and with the Cubs seemingly going with the rebuilding route for the foreseeable future, it really seems like Soto's value to the team would come more from the nice prospects package he could net them in a trade sooner rather than later.

 

That's the problem with this half assed approach they appear to be using. If they are going to tank 2011, at least do it in a way to significantly improve your chances for 2012-2013. There's no point in wasting things like Marmol/Soto/Casto's still affordable seasons while waiting for other contracts to leave. By the time they can afford others they will be offering big raises to new guys and still won't be able to go after the big time free agents. Don't pay somebody to take Fukudome. Deal Wells, Marmol, Byrd, Colvin and maybe even Soto. Take your lumps now instead of prolonging them for the next 3 years.

[Sammy Sofa]

What sucks is this: Soto's best years are going to be wasted by us. Having a C in his prime and not being paid big money at that time is a humongous asset to have. I wish we had the pieces to surround him with right now, but we don't and evidently we can't afford to go get them.

 

Yeah, that's my thinking towards him. His career window is likely relatively short enough as it is, and with the Cubs seemingly going with the rebuilding route for the foreseeable future, it really seems like Soto's value to the team would come more from the nice prospects package he could net them in a trade sooner rather than later.

 

That's the problem with this half assed approach they appear to be using. If they are going to tank 2011, at least do it in a way to significantly improve your chances for 2012-2013. There's no point in wasting things like Marmol/Soto/Casto's still affordable seasons while waiting for other contracts to leave. By the time they can afford others they will be offering big raises to new guys and still won't be able to go after the big time free agents. Don't pay somebody to take Fukudome. Deal Wells, Marmol, Byrd, Colvin and maybe even Soto. Take your lumps now instead of prolonging them for the next 3 years.

 

Totally agree. I'd add Gorzelanny to that list, too.

[daske17]

From a logical perspective, yes, sell all your valuable parts to get value.

 

At the same time, they have a responsibility to put a (sensibly) competitive team on the field. Without pieces like Marmol, Soto, etc. they can't sell that team to a ticket-buying public. The Ricketts saw attendance plummet once the team started tanking. They can't reasonably expect to sell tickets in February by conceding the season in December.

 

So we're going to have this half-assed approach to the off-season, where we miss out on high-profile fixes because we can't/won't pay them and have to settle for reclamation projects and second-tier players.

 

Welcome to 1990s Cubs baseball.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm not expecting them to move those players now; I want them to look to do so before the deadline.

[davell]

What sucks is this: Soto's best years are going to be wasted by us. Having a C in his prime and not being paid big money at that time is a humongous asset to have. I wish we had the pieces to surround him with right now, but we don't and evidently we can't afford to go get them.

 

Yeah, that's my thinking towards him. His career window is likely relatively short enough as it is, and with the Cubs seemingly going with the rebuilding route for the foreseeable future, it really seems like Soto's value to the team would come more from the nice prospects package he could net them in a trade sooner rather than later.

 

That's the problem with this half assed approach they appear to be using. If they are going to tank 2011, at least do it in a way to significantly improve your chances for 2012-2013. There's no point in wasting things like Marmol/Soto/Casto's still affordable seasons while waiting for other contracts to leave. By the time they can afford others they will be offering big raises to new guys and still won't be able to go after the big time free agents. Don't pay somebody to take Fukudome. Deal Wells, Marmol, Byrd, Colvin and maybe even Soto. Take your lumps now instead of prolonging them for the next 3 years.

 

Totally agree. I'd add Gorzelanny to that list, too.

 

 

I agree as well. But, I wonder if Ricketts isn't more concerned with public perception and losing money from a lack of ticket sales by using this approach. He grew up in an era of where the Cubs losing, but being a middle of the road team was par for the course. He knows(or thinks anyway, because I'm not so sure at this point) that Cub fans will settle for this. And he'll still be able to pocket tons of money from a fan base accustomed to losing, as long as they have a sliver of hope. A firesale would take that sliver away and he's probably wondering if he could get away with it. He grew up with the half-ass approach era and is probably going to continue right along with it, because while it's definitely not a winning formula for fans, it probably is for him being an owner.

[Sammy Sofa]

The really annoying thing is it did not have to get to this point.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's not like they were middle of the road last year. Without significant improvements I do not see how they will be able to sell this team as even an outside hope for contention. Fans know what happened in 2005/2006. Back to back horrible seasons are hardly an afterthought. People who try and scalp tickets have taken a hit. They can't be getting the same level of that type of buyer this February. People bought tickets in the 2000's because the team sold a lot of hope based on some aggressive aquisitions and some success. Plus you had a better economy and stronger secondary market that helped sell tickets every February.

 

I don't expect them to do it. But it would still be a smart business move to start selling some realistic hope for the future. As it stands, nobody is excited about 2011 and there is nothing to anticipate for 2012/2013 except for current players leaving.

[davell]

Cubs plan to sell a mediocre team as much more

 

1. Sign a stopgap 1B that fans can look at his best seasons and dream that'l replicate them here. Carlos Pena, come on down.

2. Sign Brandon Webb. Cub fans can dream about him winning a Cy Young award for the Cubs in 2011.

3. Sell the fans on the youth movement(ie Castro, Colvin, Cashner, Coleman, Archer, Brett Jackson, Carpenter, and Jay Jackson. Along with anyone else they may rush to get up here. But, the key is selling these guys(some rightfully so, as the future of the Cubs)

4. Sell the Cubs that Aramis will be back and better than ever in 2011.

5. Sell the fans on Z "turning the corner" and will be dominant all year next season.

6. Most importantly, sell the fans that Quade made a huge difference last year, as his 24-13 record PROVES that, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

 

And voila, there's our contending 2011 Chicago Cubs, according to Ricketts and Co.

[Sammy Sofa]

Eh, really, how many more tickets would they sell because of that than if they went with a full rebuild ASAP? The general perception already is that the team is crappy.

[davell]

Eh, really, how many more tickets would they sell because of that than if they went with a full rebuild ASAP? The general perception already is that the team is crappy.

 

 

That's the thing: No one can answer that without it being a guess. My thinking is Ricketts doesn't want to do something like this, because of the slight possibility of extreme backlash from the fans. In other words, I don't think he'd give the fans nearly enough credit for understanding what's going on with the team. I'm all for it. Pick a direction and go: All in right now or build for 2-3 years from now. Just don't half-ass it anymore like you're doing currently.

[davearm2]

That's the problem with this half assed approach they appear to be using. If they are going to tank 2011, at least do it in a way to significantly improve your chances for 2012-2013. There's no point in wasting things like Marmol/Soto/Casto's still affordable seasons while waiting for other contracts to leave. By the time they can afford others they will be offering big raises to new guys and still won't be able to go after the big time free agents. Don't pay somebody to take Fukudome. Deal Wells, Marmol, Byrd, Colvin and maybe even Soto. Take your lumps now instead of prolonging them for the next 3 years.

You want to adopt the Pirate blueprint? Ugh.

 

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but firesales rarely end well.

[Sammy Sofa]

So you want them to cling to players in the short term who could bring them value in the long run via the trade because...why?

[davearm2]

Cubs plan to sell a mediocre team as much more

 

1. Sign a stopgap 1B that fans can look at his best seasons and dream that'l replicate them here. Carlos Pena, come on down.

2. Sign Brandon Webb. Cub fans can dream about him winning a Cy Young award for the Cubs in 2011.

3. Sell the fans on the youth movement(ie Castro, Colvin, Cashner, Coleman, Archer, Brett Jackson, Carpenter, and Jay Jackson. Along with anyone else they may rush to get up here. But, the key is selling these guys(some rightfully so, as the future of the Cubs)

4. Sell the Cubs that Aramis will be back and better than ever in 2011.

5. Sell the fans on Z "turning the corner" and will be dominant all year next season.

6. Most importantly, sell the fans that Quade made a huge difference last year, as his 24-13 record PROVES that, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

 

And voila, there's our contending 2011 Chicago Cubs, according to Ricketts and Co.

So I'm imagining high-level organizational meetings involving Ricketts, Hendry, Crane Kenney, etc.

 

Do you think Ricketts opens this meeting with something like, "fellas, how are we going to win a World Series", or "fellas, how are we going to hoodwink our fans and get them to keep paying for a crap on-field product?"

[davearm2]

So you want them to cling to players in the short term who could bring them value in the long run via the trade because...why?

Many of the players mentioned could be major contributors on the next contending Cubs team. That's one reason why.

 

Another reason is because the firesale strategy usually fails. Bad teams that sell their good players for prospects tend to stay bad.

[Sammy Sofa]

They already have a crap on-field product.

 

Again, not talking about backing the truck up all at once. It's a matter of making guys available and listening to offers. They don't have to dump everyone now.

[Sammy Sofa]

So you want them to cling to players in the short term who could bring them value in the long run via the trade because...why?

Many of the players mentioned could be major contributors on the next contending Cubs team. That's one reason why.

 

Another reason is because the firesale strategy usually fails. Bad teams that sell their good players for prospects tend to stay bad.

 

The Cubs don't have many good players that will still be good when the Cubs are competitive again. Relievers are flighty enough, and someone like Marmol is a massive injury waiting to happen, so why hold on to him for 2-3 years of mediocre Cubs teams when teams who are in the hunt will be willing to pay big for a guy as effective as him even if it is just for immediate impact? Like it was pointed out, catchers don't have a terribly long shelf life, and Soto has already had injury and weight issues that are just going to pile up as he gets older. He's already near 30, so again, why keep him on for 2-3 years of mediocre Cubs baseball when someone with his skills will command a very good return for 3-4 years of being a very good offensive catcher he probably has in him?

 

Why cling to someone like Byrd? Or Wells? Or Gorzelanny? Or Colvin?

[davearm2]

They already have a crap on-field product.

 

Again, not talking about backing the truck up all at once. It's a matter of making guys available and listening to offers. They don't have to dump everyone now.

Making guys available and listening to offers is a whole different thing than having an explicit intention to "deal Wells, Marmol, Byrd, Colvin and maybe even Soto."

[Sammy Sofa]

They already have a crap on-field product.

 

Again, not talking about backing the truck up all at once. It's a matter of making guys available and listening to offers. They don't have to dump everyone now.

Making guys available and listening to offers is a whole different thing than having an explicit intention to "deal Wells, Marmol, Byrd, Colvin and maybe even Soto."

 

What? I want them to make them available and listen to offers with the explicit intention to deal them. There's zero reason to hold on to them. The Cubs are in a transition period that they need to embrace. Holding on to mostly decent but not game changing players doesn't accomplish anything outside of padding losing season records.