Lee's Down Year

[Guest]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=leede02&year=Career&t=b#clutc

[Tracer Bullet]

-100 tOPS+ in "Unk Lvrge" situations? I can just imagine Lee walking up to the plate and saying to himself "is this a high pressure situation or medium pressure situation, where my OPS is just slight above my average OPS? or a low pressure situation, where my OPS is just slightly lower than my normal OPS? Oh #$&*, I don't know what situation this is...omg, omg, omg, omg" and then going 0 for 3.

[fromthestretch]

 

no the difference here is micro vs macro. If you choose to look at cumulative stats to tell you how clutch a player is then you are fooling yourself. A "clutch" situation vs. cardinals and the same situation vs the nationals is, inevitably not the same. Arguably there is nothing clutch about even a grandslam vs the nationals of the past 5 years. Nor is a clutch situation in the playoffs the same as in the regular season. if a player is a decent hitter than over a season or tenure with a team the law of averages weighs out in his favor but it hides the fact that there are possibly smaller trends that have occurred or are recurring. maybe against a team or a particular type of pitcher or key situation. I'm not trying to look at the bigger picture of what he has been as a player. for the most part he has been pretty good. I'm looking at the high pressure situations he has had as a cub. when the pressure was greatest for the team and for him as a run producer. The 07,08 playoffs are obvious, the 04 collapse too, this year he is no where to be found early now he starts hitting after the pressure is off, etc.

 

As Tryptamine put it, a win vs. the Nationals still counts as a win. Saying that the Cardinals are the only team that count is...well, it's stupid.

 

Lee has failed in some clutch situations, and he's produced in others.

 

Lee's career: .282/.367/.499/.865

 

w/RISP: .283/.390/.489/.879

w/men on: .282/.376/.480/.857

on 3rd, <2 out: .345/.407/.619/1.026

on 3rd, 2 out: .223/.372/.394/.766

 

w/2 outs: .266/.366/.479/.845

2 outs, RISP: .249/.386/.442/.828

 

Late & Close*: .295/.393/.502/.896

 

*Late & Close are PA in the 7th or later with the batting team tied, ahead by one, or the tying run at least on deck.

 

Tie Game: .281/.377/.480/.857

within 1 Run: .284/.375/.491/.866

within 2 Runs: .284/.371/.490/.860

within 3 Runs: .286/.370/.501/.871

Within 4 Runs: .284/.368/.497/.865

 

Team Ahead: .284/.370/.502/.872

Team Behind: .282/.356/.509/.865

 

High Leverage: .283/.381/.494/.875

Medium Leverage: .295/.373/.506/.879

Low Leverage: .272/.355/.495/.851

 

And as has been pointed out...

 

vs. Cardinals: .313/.398/.550/.948

 

His numbers against other NL Central teams aren't much to complain about either.

 

And in case you only want to know how he did against St. Louis since becoming a Cub:

 

2004: .420/.500/.783/1.283 (81 PA)

2005: .393/.514/.821/1.336 (70 PA)

2006: .400/.500/1.000/1.500 (only 12 PA)

2007: .349/.414/.587/1.002 (70 PA)

2008: .281/.349/.368/.718 (63 PA)

2009: .268/.300/.393/.693 (60 PA)

2010: .286/.306/.686/.991 (36 PA)

 

Yes, he's struggled overall this season. I don't think anyone's refuting that. Of course, everyone would want more production from their #3 hitter. However, to basically label him as someone who chokes when the pressure is on is ridiculous.

[Sammy Sofa]

 

no the difference here is micro vs macro. If you choose to look at cumulative stats to tell you how clutch a player is then you are fooling yourself. A "clutch" situation vs. cardinals and the same situation vs the nationals is, inevitably not the same. Arguably there is nothing clutch about even a grandslam vs the nationals of the past 5 years. Nor is a clutch situation in the playoffs the same as in the regular season. if a player is a decent hitter than over a season or tenure with a team the law of averages weighs out in his favor but it hides the fact that there are possibly smaller trends that have occurred or are recurring. maybe against a team or a particular type of pitcher or key situation. I'm not trying to look at the bigger picture of what he has been as a player. for the most part he has been pretty good. I'm looking at the high pressure situations he has had as a cub. when the pressure was greatest for the team and for him as a run producer. The 07,08 playoffs are obvious, the 04 collapse too, this year he is no where to be found early now he starts hitting after the pressure is off, etc.

 

As Tryptamine put it, a win vs. the Nationals still counts as a win. Saying that the Cardinals are the only team that count is...well, it's stupid.

 

Lee has failed in some clutch situations, and he's produced in others.

 

Lee's career: .282/.367/.499/.865

 

w/RISP: .283/.390/.489/.879

w/men on: .282/.376/.480/.857

on 3rd, <2 out: .345/.407/.619/1.026

on 3rd, 2 out: .223/.372/.394/.766

 

w/2 outs: .266/.366/.479/.845

2 outs, RISP: .249/.386/.442/.828

 

Late & Close*: .295/.393/.502/.896

 

*Late & Close are PA in the 7th or later with the batting team tied, ahead by one, or the tying run at least on deck.

 

Tie Game: .281/.377/.480/.857

within 1 Run: .284/.375/.491/.866

within 2 Runs: .284/.371/.490/.860

within 3 Runs: .286/.370/.501/.871

Within 4 Runs: .284/.368/.497/.865

 

Team Ahead: .284/.370/.502/.872

Team Behind: .282/.356/.509/.865

 

High Leverage: .283/.381/.494/.875

Medium Leverage: .295/.373/.506/.879

Low Leverage: .272/.355/.495/.851

 

And as has been pointed out...

 

vs. Cardinals: .313/.398/.550/.948

 

His numbers against other NL Central teams aren't much to complain about either.

 

And in case you only want to know how he did against St. Louis since becoming a Cub:

 

2004: .420/.500/.783/1.283 (81 PA)

2005: .393/.514/.821/1.336 (70 PA)

2006: .400/.500/1.000/1.500 (only 12 PA)

2007: .349/.414/.587/1.002 (70 PA)

2008: .281/.349/.368/.718 (63 PA)

2009: .268/.300/.393/.693 (60 PA)

2010: .286/.306/.686/.991 (36 PA)

 

Yes, he's struggled overall this season. I don't think anyone's refuting that. Of course, everyone would want more production from their #3 hitter. However, to basically label him as someone who chokes when the pressure is on is ridiculous.

 

Crushed.

[SouthSideRyan]

Like it matters

[questionmarkgrace]

Ok this is the last I'll say about this cause he's bout gone anyways. But the playoffs and the the streches run in 04 are probably the most pressure sitauions he had as a cub. Were you guys at any of these games? Do you not remember the media scrutiny? You could cuut the pressure with a knife. Yeah the guy hit .545 in08 when no one was on base but was empty with runners on 13 chances in those six games. 04 empty down the stretch. Yeah the day to day stats say he was decent in clutch situations. But he did virtually nothing to help the team in the most key spots of his cubs career.

[Sammy Sofa]

Holy tiny sample size, Batman.

 

Just give it up.

[SouthSideRyan]

Like it matters

 

Certain people believe things and are never going to change their minds because he saw Derrek Lee strike out with the bases loaded one time. It's not worth the time to prove them wrong over and over and over again, because they're not going to listen. One only needed to look at the absurd floating goal posts in the poster's original argument to know he wasn't going to change his mind.

[fromthestretch]

So he's OK in pressure situations, but not situations where "you could cut the pressure with a knife". I'm curious how he is if the pressure is tender enough to cut with a fork.

 

Maybe baseball-reference should have a split for those situations.

[SouthSideRyan]

Depending on the season, the most important time to hit well is either:

 

-The first half

-April

-April games against division opponents

-Games against teams above 500

-At bats only with runners on in the playoffs

-not 2005

-not in the 5 or 6 spot in the lineup

-September

-Against the Cardinals

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If Lee isn't a problem in the clutch, why are the Cubs apparently willing to trade him? I'd say point proven.

[Tracer Bullet]

Like it matters

 

Certain people believe things and are never going to change their minds because he saw Derrek Lee strike out with the bases loaded one time. It's not worth the time to prove them wrong over and over and over again, because they're not going to listen. One only needed to look at the absurd floating goal posts in the poster's original argument to know he wasn't going to change his mind.

 

all very true.

[Tryptamine]

If Lee isn't a problem in the clutch, why are the Cubs apparently willing to trade him? I'd say point proven.

 

He's old, he's had a down year, the Cubs aren't competing this year or next, he's a free agent next year, it saves the club 3 million dollars. would you like me to continue?

[javy knows my name]

Depending on the season, the most important time to hit well is either:

 

-The first half

-April

-April games against division opponents

-Games against teams above 500

-At bats only with runners on in the playoffs

-not 2005

-not in the 5 or 6 spot in the lineup

-September

-Against the Cardinals

I about died

[Sammy Sofa]

Depending on the season, the most important time to hit well is either:

 

-The first half

-April

-April games against division opponents

-Games against teams above 500

-At bats only with runners on in the playoffs

-not 2005

-not in the 5 or 6 spot in the lineup

-September

-Against the Cardinals

 

So much karma.

[Rob]

Okay, here's a challenge for you.

 

Name a player that I can't cherry pick stats for to show they wilt under pressure.

 

I still think this would have been a fun game.

[Sammy Sofa]

Albert Pujols.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Albert Pujols.

 

9 games, 1 HR, 2 RBI, .267 BA and .888 OPS in the World Series, the ultimate pressure cooker. Way below his usual production.

[champaignchris]

Pujols...

 

Check out these numbers from this year...

 

.000/.231/.000 vs. LAA

.200/.259/.240 vs. LAD

.167/.265/.200 vs. NYM

 

He obviously wilts in the face of the pressure of playing against big market teams from Los Angeles and New York.

[Rob]

His career OPS against the Cubs (which we know is the only clutch stat that matters) is nearly 100 points lower than his normal OPS.

 

Oh, and for his career, which inning does he have the worst performance in? Oh yeah, the 9th.

 

When the pressure is really on, that's when Pujols falls apart.

[lumafia]

Okay, here's a challenge for you.

 

Name a player that I can't cherry pick stats for to show they wilt under pressure.

 

I still think this would have been a fun game.

 

Babe Ruth

[Ding Dong Johnson]

All while his team was battling for the division lead no less.

[lumafia]

Derek Jeter has pretty much been Captain Consistent in just about every situation.

 

I still think he is the most overpaid player to ever put on a MLB jersey.

[Rob]

Okay, here's a challenge for you.

 

Name a player that I can't cherry pick stats for to show they wilt under pressure.

 

I still think this would have been a fun game.

 

Babe Ruth

 

This one is too easy.

 

Career OPS in wins - 1.332, losses - .959. That's nearly a 400 point spread. What a choke artist.

[SouthSideRyan]

Derek Jeter has pretty much been Captain Consistent in just about every situation.

 

I still think he is the most overpaid player to ever put on a MLB jersey.

 

Needing just 1 win to close out their hated rival Red Sox, Captain Jetes puts up a 211/250/263 line as Boston comes up clutch while Jeter chokes away a 3-0 lead.