Shoud Gorz be put back in the rotation and Wells to the pen?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Wells has been flat out bad lately. Bad. Aside from 5 good innings vs. the Pirates, he was annihalated by the Cardinals, and pretty badly beaten by the Astros and White Sox, 2 very pedestrian at best teams. Lou is notorious for being impatient with pitchers, especially young pitchers, so why should wells be any different? Becasue he was 2009s pleasant surprise in the heap of garbage? Rich Hill did less in 2008 to lead to his banishment. Gorzolanny on the other hand unfairly lost his rotation spot because he was the odd man out. Should Wells at least be sent to the pen? We could use another quality righty there. Grabows already made 2 good rehab stints in Iowa, so for Lou, thats probably enough to get him back here to start pitching his trademark 2-4 run innings. That would leave us wih either 4 lefties in the pen or more likely, send down Russell simply because he was bad yesterday. The again, theres the logical move which is when Grabows activated, and while wed all prefer that not happen, it will Cashner go back to the Iowa rotation where he should have never left, Wells to the pen and Gorz to the rotation. Then we have

 

SP Lilly

SP Demp

SP Silva

SP Z

SP Gorz

RRP Howry

RRP Stevens

RRP Wells

LRP Grabow

LRP Russell

Set Up Marshall

Closer Marmol

[Backtobanks]

Wells has been flat out bad lately. Bad. Aside from 5 good innings vs. the Pirates, he was annihalated by the Cardinals, and pretty badly beaten by the Astros and White Sox, 2 very pedestrian at best teams. Lou is notorious for being impatient with pitchers, especially young pitchers, so why should wells be any different? Becasue he was 2009s pleasant surprise in the heap of garbage? Rich Hill did less in 2008 to lead to his banishment. Gorzolanny on the other hand unfairly lost his rotation spot because he was the odd man out. Should Wells at least be sent to the pen? We could use another quality righty there. Grabows already made 2 good rehab stints in Iowa, so for Lou, thats probably enough to get him back here to start pitching his trademark 2-4 run innings. That would leave us wih either 4 lefties in the pen or more likely, send down Russell simply because he was bad yesterday. The again, theres the logical move which is when Grabows activated, and while wed all prefer that not happen, it will Cashner go back to the Iowa rotation where he should have never left, Wells to the pen and Gorz to the rotation. Then we have

 

SP Lilly

SP Demp

SP Silva

SP Z

SP Gorz

RRP Howry

RRP Stevens

RRP Wells

LRP Grabow

LRP Russell

Set Up Marshall

Closer Marmol

 

The obvious problem with Wells in the bullpen is that he can't get anybody out in the 1st inning he pitches. Personally, I'm wondering if Wells was a fluke last year. He's never had great, overpowering stuff so he has to be near perfect to get people out. If he can get back to respectable, I would use him for trade bait in the off season because he's easily replaceable by one of many prospects. I would like the Cubs to keep Gorz to replace Lilly (assuming he's traded or signs elsewhere).

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If I'm not mistaken, Wells still has options. Rather than send Wells to the bullpen, if he needs to be removed from the rotation, he should be sent to Iowa to work through his troubles as a starter.

[Backtobanks]

If I'm not mistaken, Wells still has options. Rather than send Wells to the bullpen, if he needs to be removed from the rotation, he should be sent to Iowa to work through his troubles as a starter.

 

Looks like Wells may get sent down:

 

#Cubs new addition Mitch Atkins was 4-2 with 2.63 ERA in 14 G (6 starts) with 33 Ks in 48 innings pitched. This is second callup for RHP

[JonJayCutler]

Gorz has pitched a total of 1 and 2/3 innings since May 26. If Wells has another bad start on Thursday, a change needs to happen. Obviously Lou doesn't want Gorz in any important bullpen role.

[dew1679666265]

Gorz has pitched a total of 1 and 2/3 innings since May 26. If Wells has another bad start on Thursday, a change needs to happen. Obviously Lou doesn't want Gorz in any important bullpen role.

 

I don't know if Loud doesn't want Gorz in an important bullpen role or if there's just not an important role to give him. We've already got Marmol, Cashner and Marshall in the back end of the pen and Howry has pitched well in earlier innings. I'd like to see Gorz back in the rotation and the solution may be to let Wells work things out in the minors (if necessary).

[NCCubFan]

There's a story on cubs.com that indicates Lou and Larry spotted a mechanical flaw when Wells pitches out of the stretch and that flaw may be causing his troubles. I'd like to see him get at least one more start to see if they've corrected the flaw. If he struggles again I'd send him to Iowa to try to correct the flaw.

[Keener98]

There's a story on cubs.com that indicates Lou and Larry spotted a mechanical flaw when Wells pitches out of the stretch and that flaw may be causing his troubles. I'd like to see him get at least one more start to see if they've corrected the flaw. If he struggles again I'd send him to Iowa to try to correct the flaw.

 

Haha, I love how Lou says "notice how when Wells gets into trouble hes pitching from the stretch". Well Lou, its hard to get into trouble while pitching from the windup when nobody is on base......

[CubColtPacer]

There's a story on cubs.com that indicates Lou and Larry spotted a mechanical flaw when Wells pitches out of the stretch and that flaw may be causing his troubles. I'd like to see him get at least one more start to see if they've corrected the flaw. If he struggles again I'd send him to Iowa to try to correct the flaw.

 

Haha, I love how Lou says "notice how when Wells gets into trouble hes pitching from the stretch". Well Lou, its hard to get into trouble while pitching from the windup when nobody is on base......

 

He jut means that Wells has pitched much worse with runners on than nobody on.

 

Nobody on: .256/.304/.375

Runners on: .353/.389/.496

[davearm2]

There's a story on cubs.com that indicates Lou and Larry spotted a mechanical flaw when Wells pitches out of the stretch and that flaw may be causing his troubles. I'd like to see him get at least one more start to see if they've corrected the flaw. If he struggles again I'd send him to Iowa to try to correct the flaw.

 

Haha, I love how Lou says "notice how when Wells gets into trouble hes pitching from the stretch". Well Lou, its hard to get into trouble while pitching from the windup when nobody is on base......

 

He jut means that Wells has pitched much worse with runners on than nobody on.

 

Nobody on: .256/.304/.375

Runners on: .353/.389/.496

Kind of a chicken and egg thing going on there, no?

 

If a guy's pitching well, his slash stats will be good and consequently there won't be many guys on base.

 

The slash stats aren't good because nobody's on base though.

[treebird]

There's a story on cubs.com that indicates Lou and Larry spotted a mechanical flaw when Wells pitches out of the stretch and that flaw may be causing his troubles. I'd like to see him get at least one more start to see if they've corrected the flaw. If he struggles again I'd send him to Iowa to try to correct the flaw.

 

Haha, I love how Lou says "notice how when Wells gets into trouble hes pitching from the stretch". Well Lou, its hard to get into trouble while pitching from the windup when nobody is on base......

 

He jut means that Wells has pitched much worse with runners on than nobody on.

 

Nobody on: .256/.304/.375

Runners on: .353/.389/.496

Kind of a chicken and egg thing going on there, no?

 

If a guy's pitching well, his slash stats will be good and consequently there won't be many guys on base.

 

The slash stats aren't good because nobody's on base though.

 

Nobody on: .256/.304/.375

[TruffleShuffle]

is this a joke?

[davearm2]

is this a joke?

Think it through for a minute.

 

Does a guy throw a no-hitter because he's terrific with nobody onbase, or because he's pitching great?

 

Does a guy get rocked because he's awful with runners on, or because he's pitching lousy?

 

The good slash stats with nobody on are probably more effect than cause.

[Guest]

is this a joke?

Think it through for a minute.

 

Does a guy throw a no-hitter because he's terrific with nobody onbase, or because he's pitching great?

 

Does a guy get rocked because he's awful with runners on, or because he's pitching lousy?

 

The good slash stats with nobody on are probably more effect than cause.

 

Wells

No runners: .679

Runners: .885

 

Dempster

No runners: .671 (.737 career)

Runners: .700 (.775)

 

Silva

No runners: .620 (.794)

Runners: .678 (.802)

 

Zambrano

No runners: .812 (.657)

Runners: .806 (.704)

 

No one is saying that the two splits should be equal. It's the gap between them that's alarming.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

is this a joke?

Think it through for a minute.

 

Does a guy throw a no-hitter because he's terrific with nobody onbase, or because he's pitching great?

 

Does a guy get rocked because he's awful with runners on, or because he's pitching lousy?

 

The good slash stats with nobody on are probably more effect than cause.

This is the part I like to think about. He does relatively well then somebody manages to get on base. Then he does worse.

[treebird]

There's a story on cubs.com that indicates Lou and Larry spotted a mechanical flaw when Wells pitches out of the stretch and that flaw may be causing his troubles. I'd like to see him get at least one more start to see if they've corrected the flaw. If he struggles again I'd send him to Iowa to try to correct the flaw.

 

Haha, I love how Lou says "notice how when Wells gets into trouble hes pitching from the stretch". Well Lou, its hard to get into trouble while pitching from the windup when nobody is on base......

 

He jut means that Wells has pitched much worse with runners on than nobody on.

 

Nobody on: .256/.304/.375

Runners on: .353/.389/.496

Kind of a chicken and egg thing going on there, no?

 

If a guy's pitching well, his slash stats will be good and consequently there won't be many guys on base.

 

The slash stats aren't good because nobody's on base though.

 

Nobody on: .256/.304/.375

[davearm2]

is this a joke?

Think it through for a minute.

 

Does a guy throw a no-hitter because he's terrific with nobody onbase, or because he's pitching great?

 

Does a guy get rocked because he's awful with runners on, or because he's pitching lousy?

 

The good slash stats with nobody on are probably more effect than cause.

This is the part I like to think about. He does relatively well then somebody manages to get on base. Then he does worse.

And I'm saying, that is not necessarily the way to think about it.

 

Which conclusion makes more intuitive sense:

Guys are on base because Wells is pitching poorly.

Wells is pitching poorly because guys are on base.

[cubfan]

is this a joke?

Think it through for a minute.

 

Does a guy throw a no-hitter because he's terrific with nobody onbase, or because he's pitching great?

 

Does a guy get rocked because he's awful with runners on, or because he's pitching lousy?

 

The good slash stats with nobody on are probably more effect than cause.

This is the part I like to think about. He does relatively well then somebody manages to get on base. Then he does worse.

And I'm saying, that is not necessarily the way to think about it.

 

Which conclusion makes more intuitive sense:

Guys are on base because Wells is pitching poorly.

Wells is pitching poorly because guys are on base.

 

What you are saying is reasonable and was worth looking into, but what TT posted seems to say different. If this was the case, I would expect most pitchers would have splits similar to Wells but they don't

[davearm2]

is this a joke?

Think it through for a minute.

 

Does a guy throw a no-hitter because he's terrific with nobody onbase, or because he's pitching great?

 

Does a guy get rocked because he's awful with runners on, or because he's pitching lousy?

 

The good slash stats with nobody on are probably more effect than cause.

This is the part I like to think about. He does relatively well then somebody manages to get on base. Then he does worse.

And I'm saying, that is not necessarily the way to think about it.

 

Which conclusion makes more intuitive sense:

Guys are on base because Wells is pitching poorly.

Wells is pitching poorly because guys are on base.

 

What you are saying is reasonable and was worth looking into, but what TT posted seems to say different. If this was the case, I would expect most pitchers would have splits similar to Wells but they don't

Wells' career splits look very much like the other guys': .687 vs. .721.

 

We're probably just dealing with small sample size issues here, rather than any conclusive evidence about Wells.

[dew1679666265]

Wells' career splits look very much like the other guys': .687 vs. .721.

 

We're probably just dealing with small sample size issues here, rather than any conclusive evidence about Wells.

 

Unless Lou and Rothschild are right and he's got a flaw of some type in the stretch that is causing him to be more hittable.