Minor League Discussion & Boxes 5-27-10

[Rob]

So much for that hot start in AA for Vitters. .246/.259/.368 9k/0BB in 57 AB. The guy has yet to dominate a single level of pro baseball for any substantial period of time, and he's already in AA as a 20 year old. Why have they felt the need to promote him at the drop of a hat?

 

Don't forget to adjust for the league he's playing in.

 

.328/.365/.498 in Boise (hitters league)

.316/.351/.535 in Peoria (significant pitchers league)

.291/.350/.445 in Daytona (the best league for pitchers)

 

What numbers do you need to see him put up before you promote him?

 

Significant period of time.

 

When I last looked at his Daytona numbers he was something like 20th, behind a whole bunch of other corner position players, and some middle infielders. That's not dominating a league, and that's not any significant period of time either. I just don't see why he's a 20 year old in AA given his track record.

 

Once a guy hits AA, the calls to bring him to the majors start up. I just think he's so far from being a potential big leaguer, there's no reason why he can't still be in Daytona, slowly climbing the ladder (and that wouldn't even be slow).

 

Personally, I don't have any problem with the promotions to Peoria and Daytona... and I'd agree with you that we probably should have kept him in Daytona a bit longer before moving him up to AA. But really, it's a judgment call and if Fleita saw something that made him think an aggressive promotion may help, I'd have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[jersey cubs fan]

Personally, I don't have any problem with the promotions to Peoria and Daytona... and I'd agree with you that we probably should have kept him in Daytona a bit longer before moving him up to AA. But really, it's a judgment call and if Fleita saw something that made him think an aggressive promotion may help, I'd have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

I don't see it as a judgement call. Performance is easily observed. Vitters has not been up to snuff. Any time he has a brief window of success, they promote him. I don't see the point. He could be dominating the FSL right now, after dominating the midwest league last year, and a hot commodity in the trade market. Instead he's a guy with a questionable track record that hasn't come close to living up to his draft position whose biggest positives has been a boss who is happy to promote him.

[CUBZ99]

So much for that hot start in AA for Vitters. .246/.259/.368 9k/0BB in 57 AB. The guy has yet to dominate a single level of pro baseball for any substantial period of time, and he's already in AA as a 20 year old. Why have they felt the need to promote him at the drop of a hat?

 

Don't forget to adjust for the league he's playing in.

 

.328/.365/.498 in Boise (hitters league)

.316/.351/.535 in Peoria (significant pitchers league)

.291/.350/.445 in Daytona (the best league for pitchers)

 

What numbers do you need to see him put up before you promote him?

 

Significant period of time.

 

When I last looked at his Daytona numbers he was something like 20th, behind a whole bunch of other corner position players, and some middle infielders. That's not dominating a league, and that's not any significant period of time either. I just don't see why he's a 20 year old in AA given his track record.

 

Once a guy hits AA, the calls to bring him to the majors start up. I just think he's so far from being a potential big leaguer, there's no reason why he can't still be in Daytona, slowly climbing the ladder (and that wouldn't even be slow).

 

The scouts' opinions on him have always been higher than his actual production. I don't have a problem with them pushing him to AA and challenging him if they feel he would benefit from it. At this point, I would prefer that they let him spend the rest of the year at AA and allow him the chance to adjust to more advanced pitching.

[Rob]

Personally, I don't have any problem with the promotions to Peoria and Daytona... and I'd agree with you that we probably should have kept him in Daytona a bit longer before moving him up to AA. But really, it's a judgment call and if Fleita saw something that made him think an aggressive promotion may help, I'd have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

I don't see it as a judgement call. Performance is easily observed. Vitters has not been up to snuff. Any time he has a brief window of success, they promote him. I don't see the point. He could be dominating the FSL right now, after dominating the midwest league last year, and a hot commodity in the trade market. Instead he's a guy with a questionable track record that hasn't come close to living up to his draft position whose biggest positives has been a boss who is happy to promote him.

 

Well if you're back to it being substandard performance instead of an inadequate amount of time, I have to ask again.

 

What numbers do you need to see to justify a promotion?

[jersey cubs fan]

Personally, I don't have any problem with the promotions to Peoria and Daytona... and I'd agree with you that we probably should have kept him in Daytona a bit longer before moving him up to AA. But really, it's a judgment call and if Fleita saw something that made him think an aggressive promotion may help, I'd have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

I don't see it as a judgement call. Performance is easily observed. Vitters has not been up to snuff. Any time he has a brief window of success, they promote him. I don't see the point. He could be dominating the FSL right now, after dominating the midwest league last year, and a hot commodity in the trade market. Instead he's a guy with a questionable track record that hasn't come close to living up to his draft position whose biggest positives has been a boss who is happy to promote him.

 

Well if you're back to it being substandard performance instead of an inadequate amount of time, I have to ask again.

 

What numbers do you need to see to justify a promotion?

 

It's substandard overall. He's been horrible in AA, he was decent but far from great in A ball. The concensus on Vitters seems to me at least, that his future is very much in doubt. Nobody has a good grip on what he is. He hasn't dominated, and he hasn't been all that good for any stretch of time. It's both numbers and time. 20th in the league in FSL isn't that impressive to me, regardless of what the actual line may have been. If you insist on me providing a true number, than how about something like a 900 OPS in FSL before insisting on promoting him within a month? 6 guys have that right now. 12 are over 850. That seems like a fair line to talk about a guy actually dominating a league and earning a very early promotion.

 

 

At the very least, something much more substantial than his career .286 .319 .448 he had coming into 2010.

[rawaction]

I think the point is. Usually when you see a 20-year old at AA, it's because he's absolutely lit up every league he's played in up to that point. Vitters numbers have been OK in the past, but when I think of lighting up the league, I think a hitter has to show either a strong display of power, the ability to hit the ball at an elite level (high BA, great LD%), or a great grasp of the strikezone. Vitters showed that in a 1/2 season at Peoria, which warranted the promotion to Daytona, but hadn't shown enough in Daytona to warrant the promotion to AA.

[scarey]

So much for that hot start in AA for Vitters. .246/.259/.368 9k/0BB in 57 AB. The guy has yet to dominate a single level of pro baseball for any substantial period of time, and he's already in AA as a 20 year old. Why have they felt the need to promote him at the drop of a hat?

 

You're making the assumption that they are making the decision to promote him based on his stat line rather than other factors like pitch recognition and fielding. For all we know, Vitters may be sitting on fastballs and they want to force him to hit breaking balls against more advanced pitching.

 

I guess what I'm confused about is you seem to think there is some reason that they're promoting Vitters and that it's not a good one. I just don't understand what would be promoting a player for the wrong reason? What are you implying their motive is?

[jersey cubs fan]

So much for that hot start in AA for Vitters. .246/.259/.368 9k/0BB in 57 AB. The guy has yet to dominate a single level of pro baseball for any substantial period of time, and he's already in AA as a 20 year old. Why have they felt the need to promote him at the drop of a hat?

 

You're making the assumption that they are making the decision to promote him based on his stat line rather than other factors like pitch recognition and fielding. For all we know, Vitters may be sitting on fastballs and they want to force him to hit breaking balls against more advanced pitching.

 

I guess what I'm confused about is you seem to think there is some reason that they're promoting Vitters and that it's not a good one. I just don't understand what would be promoting a player for the wrong reason? What are you implying their motive is?

 

I think their reasoning is flawed, if not idiotic. Motive has nothing to do with it. From low A to high A and high A to AA, they promoted him after a very brief stretch of playing well, as if they were just waiting for an excuse to promote him. I don't get it. I don't get why they can't make the guy earn a promotion through prolonged performance. I can see moving a guy out of short season leagues to get with legit competition, but he's 20, with a spotty track record and huge red flags about his game. Why is he in AA?

[Outshined_One]

Report on the Peoria game.