Who goes to the bullpen?

[CubColtPacer]

I agree that Moore sucks, but I think Hendry is just as bad. Jim just gets 140 million to throw around.

 

That's just not true. Hendry has made plenty of good moves that would've been possible with any payroll. Moore hasn't made any.

 

when?

 

Off the top of my head: Barrett, Dempster, DeRosa, Byrd, Gorzelanny, trading DeRosa, Karros/Grudzielanek, Lee, and probably Ramirez(although 6M was a little more in 2003)

 

Um, that's ridiculous. No way he could pull those off with "any payroll". How long has Moore been a GM? Hendry has been a GM for 8 years, obviously over time he's going to pull off a favorable deal or two.

 

Moore will have been a GM for 4 years now this summer. And while any payroll might be overstating it, the Royals have a payroll over 70 million now (their payrolls have been 67, 58, 70, and now about 75 since Dayton became GM). They could have handled any of those types of moves that TT mentioned.

 

Instead, they have much more dead money than the Cubs have, they have more invested in the bullpen than the Cubs, and their two big free agent acquisitions are Gil Meche and Jose Guillen. And then on position players, they're giving 10-12 million combined and playing time to the combination of Betancourt, Ankiel, Kendall, Bloomquist, and Podsednik.

 

And when you consider that we're only talking about players who have to have playing time while making less than 7 million a year (players which both teams can afford), Moore should have a lot more chances at that than Hendry. He signs a lot more of those type of contracts. The fact that Hendry has had many more successes at that than Moore even though Moore has many more chances is pretty horrible for Moore.

[illiniguy]

Moore will have been a GM for 4 years now this summer. And while any payroll might be overstating it, the Royals have a payroll over 70 million now (their payrolls have been 67, 58, 70, and now about 75 since Drayton became GM). They could have handled any of those types of moves that TT mentioned.

 

Instead, they have much more dead money than the Cubs have, they have more invested in the bullpen than the Cubs, and their two big free agent acquisitions are Gil Meche and Jose Guillen. And then on position players, they're giving 10-12 million combined and playing time to the combination of Betancourt, Ankiel, Kendall, Bloomquist, and Podsednik.

 

And when you consider that we're only talking about players who have to have playing time while making less than 7 million a year (players which both teams can afford), Moore should have a lot more chances at that than Hendry. He signs a lot more of those type of contracts. The fact that Hendry has had many more successes at that than Moore even though Moore has many more chances is pretty horrible for Moore.

Fine, but you cannot count DLee and Ramirez then, because there is no way that anyone thought that they would be making that cheap of money as soon as they were up to resign.

[CubColtPacer]

Moore will have been a GM for 4 years now this summer. And while any payroll might be overstating it, the Royals have a payroll over 70 million now (their payrolls have been 67, 58, 70, and now about 75 since Drayton became GM). They could have handled any of those types of moves that TT mentioned.

 

Instead, they have much more dead money than the Cubs have, they have more invested in the bullpen than the Cubs, and their two big free agent acquisitions are Gil Meche and Jose Guillen. And then on position players, they're giving 10-12 million combined and playing time to the combination of Betancourt, Ankiel, Kendall, Bloomquist, and Podsednik.

 

And when you consider that we're only talking about players who have to have playing time while making less than 7 million a year (players which both teams can afford), Moore should have a lot more chances at that than Hendry. He signs a lot more of those type of contracts. The fact that Hendry has had many more successes at that than Moore even though Moore has many more chances is pretty horrible for Moore.

Fine, but you cannot count DLee and Ramirez then, because there is no way that anyone thought that they would be making that cheap of money as soon as they were up

to resign.

 

Lee signed a 3 year deal as soon as he got to the Cubs for 22.5 million. While just over the minimum we're talking about (although just by 500,000), that's a move a Royals team could make even when inflating it slightly to indicate today's dollars.

 

Ramirez was still in his arbitration years. The Royals could have picked up his 6 million for 04 then either paid the 9 million or so he would have gotten in arbitration in 05 (the Cubs gave him a long-term extension after arbitration figures were exchanged that year) or they could have traded him after his big year for more talent. That's what lower middle market teams are supposed to do (and that's really what Kansas City is. They aren't a ridiculously small market team anymore). They have lots of playing time to offer so they find undervalued talent, give them time and then either build around them or trade them for even more talent.

 

Ramirez and Lee aren't the strongest examples as they are right on the edge of the contract situation, but the Royals still have plenty of money to sign a player or two like that if they weren't wasting most of their money.

[scarey]

People advocating trading Silva tot he Royals are not being very empathetic. Silva is a good fit for a contender that has a sudden hole in their rotation, not a young struggling team that's trying to build a sustainable major league roster.

 

The only guys from our rotation that the Royals would be interested in are Gorzelanny and Wells.

 

Dayton Moore is also a dumb person. And would probably loooove Ryan Theriot.

 

Well, in that case I think we should do a Chad Tracy for Moustakas swap too.

 

We're not talking about trading for the Royals' best players, or their best prospects. Kila has been in AAA for 3 years and hasn't gotten any opportunity, it's clear they don't value him. Gordon would obviously be a little different, but they're getting restless with him and his ineffectiveness, and the aforementioned Moustakas is killing the ball. Moore's most recent acquisitions are Podsednik, Ankiel, and Betancourt, he's not good at his job, and it's not unreasonable to think some team could buy low on Kila or even Gordon.

 

 

My point is you can't just ignore everything in the equation and just chalk it up to "Moore is an idiot". It really makes very little sense for them to trade for Silva. It doesn't help your case by rationalizing it by saying they are willing to give up decent young talent (regardless of if they undervalue that talent or not) for an expensive aging player that is playing way above his head compared to the previous two seasons.

 

Think about it this way, I'm sure there's a reason you would keep Gorzelanny/Wells over Silva, right? It's going to be the same reason the Royals would want to get those guys rather than Silva.

[Guest]

People advocating trading Silva tot he Royals are not being very empathetic. Silva is a good fit for a contender that has a sudden hole in their rotation, not a young struggling team that's trying to build a sustainable major league roster.

 

The only guys from our rotation that the Royals would be interested in are Gorzelanny and Wells.

 

Dayton Moore is also a dumb person. And would probably loooove Ryan Theriot.

 

Well, in that case I think we should do a Chad Tracy for Moustakas swap too.

 

We're not talking about trading for the Royals' best players, or their best prospects. Kila has been in AAA for 3 years and hasn't gotten any opportunity, it's clear they don't value him. Gordon would obviously be a little different, but they're getting restless with him and his ineffectiveness, and the aforementioned Moustakas is killing the ball. Moore's most recent acquisitions are Podsednik, Ankiel, and Betancourt, he's not good at his job, and it's not unreasonable to think some team could buy low on Kila or even Gordon.

 

 

My point is you can't just ignore everything in the equation and just chalk it up to "Moore is an idiot". It really makes very little sense for them to trade for Silva. It doesn't help your case by rationalizing it by saying they are willing to give up decent young talent (regardless of if they undervalue that talent or not) for an expensive aging player that is playing way above his head compared to the previous two seasons.

 

Think about it this way, I'm sure there's a reason you would keep Gorzelanny/Wells over Silva, right? It's going to be the same reason the Royals would want to get those guys rather than Silva.

The people I talked to were basically giving Gordon the Bradley/Sosa/"Ride him out of town on rails" treatment. Couple that with the fact that the Royals have the worst ERA in the American League and a fan base that is pretty tired of waiting for things to get better. If the Cubs picked up mot of Silva's salary, I'm pretty sure the Royals would be okay with Silva as a stop gap measure at this point. They've got Davies and Bannister going out there two of every five days, for crying out loud. What they'd give up to get him is an entirely different question, of course.

 

I'm curious who these big-league ready (or nearly so) arms you think they have down on the farm are that Silva would be blocking. Montgomery looks great, for certain. Crow is pretty pedestrian looking at this point. Melville looks awful this year. Lamb is still in A ball. Duffy retired. etc.

 

Counting Castro and Colvin as prospects, there's no doubt I take the Cubs system at this point. If you discount those two, the only reason to pick KC would be the top end of Montgomery and Moustakas. After that, I see a lot of blandness.

 

 

edit ---

 

Sorry, I guess it was someone else that mentioned the "strength" of the Royals farm system and pitchers.

[illiniguy]

Tim I don't think Duffy has really retired, I know he needed surgery and was going to miss a good chunk of this year anyways. Now maybe he won't come back, but a lot of the media here is speculating that he is just depressed about missing the year and not really retired. Also not gonna count Hosmer for anything? I'm thinking we'd like a guy hitting .378 .448 .556 as a young 20 year old in high A, no? Or how about Wil Myers? .381 .476 .857 at 18 as a catcher does nothing for you either?

[Guest]

Tim I don't think Duffy has really retired, I know he needed surgery and was going to miss a good chunk of this year anyways. Now maybe he won't come back, but a lot of the media here is speculating that he is just depressed about missing the year and not really retired. Also not gonna count Hosmer for anything? I'm thinking we'd like a guy hitting .378 .448 .556 as a young 20 year old in high A, no? Or how about Wil Myers? .381 .476 .857 at 18 as a catcher does nothing for you either?

Hadn't looked up Myers previously. Impressive results.

 

For whatever reason, I'm not a big fan of Hosmer. He's doing well this season, though, for certain.

[illiniguy]

Tim I don't think Duffy has really retired, I know he needed surgery and was going to miss a good chunk of this year anyways. Now maybe he won't come back, but a lot of the media here is speculating that he is just depressed about missing the year and not really retired. Also not gonna count Hosmer for anything? I'm thinking we'd like a guy hitting .378 .448 .556 as a young 20 year old in high A, no? Or how about Wil Myers? .381 .476 .857 at 18 as a catcher does nothing for you either?

Hadn't looked up Myers previously. Impressive results.

 

For whatever reason, I'm not a big fan of Hosmer. He's doing well this season, though, for certain.

I'm not a huge Hosmer fan either, but it looks like the lasik surgery might have been just what he needed. Myers is a stud, I just wonder if he can stay at catcher.

[hawkeyecub]

I'm guessing it's Gorz especially after getting knocked out in his last start and tonight.

[soapy]

I'm guessing it's Gorz especially after getting knocked out in his last start and tonight.

 

His last game prior to last night was great. He kept Philly scoreless in 6.2 and only gave up three hits. Looks like you might be thinking of the game before that.

 

Regardless, I don't like sending him to the pen (should be Silva) but I'm sure you're right that it is going to happen.

[CubColtPacer]

I'm guessing it's Gorz especially after getting knocked out in his last start and tonight.

 

His last game prior to last night was great. He kept Philly scoreless in 6.2 and only gave up three hits. Looks like you might be thinking of the game before that.

 

Regardless, I don't like sending him to the pen (should be Silva) but I'm sure you're right that it is going to happen.

 

I think he meant that he had to leave the Philly game because of the line drive off his hand. So between that injury possibility and his bad start, he is almost certainly the candidate to go to the bullpen.

 

There's also been one thing that hasn't been mentioned. I'm not sure changing Silva's role is the best idea for his health. He's had shoulder problems the last couple of years and switching his workload could make him much more likely to be hurt.

[soapy]

I'm guessing it's Gorz especially after getting knocked out in his last start and tonight.

 

His last game prior to last night was great. He kept Philly scoreless in 6.2 and only gave up three hits. Looks like you might be thinking of the game before that.

 

Regardless, I don't like sending him to the pen (should be Silva) but I'm sure you're right that it is going to happen.

 

I think he meant that he had to leave the Philly game because of the line drive off his hand. So between that injury possibility and his bad start, he is almost certainly the candidate to go to the bullpen.

 

There's also been one thing that hasn't been mentioned. I'm not sure changing Silva's role is the best idea for his health. He's had shoulder problems the last couple of years and switching his workload could make him much more likely to be hurt.

 

Yeah, looking again, I clearly misread that.

[Guest]

There's also been one thing that hasn't been mentioned. I'm not sure changing Silva's role is the best idea for his health. He's had shoulder problems and switching his workload could make him much more likely to be hurt.

 

If the alternative is moving a younger player that has a future with the team and is also performing well(Gorzelanny, Wells), then that's a risk I'm willing to take.

[jersey cubs fan]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tim_marchman/05/27/cubs-fans/index.html?eref=sihp

[NCCubFan]

It could be a moot point. Zambrano was hospitalized today with abdominal pain. It was first thought it might be appendicitis, but tests came up negative.

[biittner77]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tim_marchman/05/27/cubs-fans/index.html?eref=sihp

 

Give them two fluke good months following years of unparalleled ineptitude for other teams and you'll be treated gently. It's the Cubs Way, simultaneously ruthless and sentimental, and in the end almost senseless.

 

That sums it up pretty well.

[NCCubFan]

Looks like Wells gave an unexpected answer to this question.

[Careless]

Piniella just said it's Gorz on the pregame.