Re: Starlin Castro promoted (!)

[Elrhino]

Don't really have a problem with this move. He's outclassed AA competition, and basically ran out of promotions. Pie and Patterson should have no effect on how the Cubs handle Castro, one way or another. Both were fundamentally flawed prospects and outrageously overrated ... Corey especially, who was mostly rated for "tools" and less for any sustainable production in the minors.

 

That said, the caveat is that Piniella has to play him and let him progress against major league pitching rather than putting him on the bench/doghouse.

[Sammy Sofa]

Don't really have a problem with this move. He's outclassed AA competition, and basically ran out of promotions. Pie and Patterson should have no effect on how the Cubs handle Castro, one way or another. Both were fundamentally flawed prospects and outrageously overrated ... Corey especially, who was mostly rated for "tools" and less for any sustainable production in the minors.

 

Lumping Pie in with Patterson like that is a pretty huge generalization.

[Sever82]

So when Castro goes .270/.325/.350 this year, are the Cubs going to give him the Pie treatment and waste him too?

 

If he goes .270/.325/.350 at age 20, i highly doubt the cubs will give him the Pie Treatment. He's being brought up knowing how raw he is at age 20, i doubt the cubs are bringing him up on a short leash. They know this kid still needs time to develop. I think the Cubs have the right hitting coach in place with Jaramillo and the right vets around him.

[TruffleShuffle]

God i hate the cubs

[KaiserCesar]

So when Castro goes .270/.325/.350 this year, are the Cubs going to give him the Pie treatment and waste him too?

 

If he goes .270/.325/.350 at age 20, i highly doubt the cubs will give him the Pie Treatment. He's being brought up knowing how raw he is at age 20, i doubt the cubs are bringing him up on a short leash. They know this kid still needs time to develop. I think the Cubs have the right hitting coach in place with Jaramillo and the right vets around him.

 

Also with the discrepancy in K rates, Castro will probably 'look' a lot better if he struggles, putting the ball in play, moving runners, etc, while Pie walked straight back to the dugout really really often.

[Guest]

If they commit to playing Castro, then there's very little difference between playing him at Iowa and playing him in Chicago, at least in terms of development. It might actually be better, because at least if things go horribly wrong in Chicago you have that option to send him to Joshua at Iowa and get a little different perspective(although he's in good hands with Lou/Jaramillo).

[Guest]

I'm fine with the move even though it is a panic move and probably doesn't improve the team now. Hopefully, it improves the team later by playing someone who actually has a potentially long term future with the team.

[RedFlash]

Texas called up their best SS prospect Elvis Andrus at 21 and he had slightly worse numbers in the minors then Castro does. Not to mention Andrus hitting instructor with the Rangers..........Rudy Jaramillo. Andrus 2009 numbers ended up being .267/.329/.373/.702, not bad (not great, either) for a 21 yr old rookie in the AL. I kind of expect similar type numbers from Castro if he plays regularly.

[JonnyRed]

Why all the hatred for this move? What more does Castro have to prove in the minors? He is batting .376, and I'm not sure simply having more time at AA would really do that much. Maybe he refines his patience at the plate and improves his glove a bit, but really?

[Guest]

Elvis Andrus' minor league numbers don't come close to touching Castro's.

[jersey cubs fan]

Why all the hatred for this move? What more does Castro have to prove in the minors? He is batting .376, and I'm not sure simply having more time at AA would really do that much. Maybe he refines his patience at the plate and improves his glove a bit, but really?

 

Why? Because the Cubs have a horrible track record of rushing prospects to the big leagues, jerking them around when they don't have an immediate positive impact, and then casting them off too soon when they prove to be a "disappointment" by 21/22/23 years old.

 

He's almost being put in a position of needing to be a savior for this team, even if they claim he is not.

 

Batting him 8th does him no favors either.

[KaiserCesar]

Texas called up their best SS prospect Elvis Andrus at 21 and he had slightly worse numbers in the minors then Castro does. Not to mention Andrus hitting instructor with the Rangers..........Rudy Jaramillo. Andrus 2009 numbers ended up being .267/.329/.373/.702, not bad (not great, either) for a 21 yr old rookie in the AL. I kind of expect similar type numbers from Castro if he plays regularly.

 

Andrus career minors

.275/.343/.361 20% K rate

 

Castro career minors

.310/.362/.421 11% K rate

 

Andrus also saw a fairly low BABIP compared to his minors numbers, which is to be expected when jumping levels, but may indicate a little bit of bad luck last year.

 

Let's not delude ourselves too much, but expectations along the line of Andrus may be a bit conservative.

[RedFlash]

Elvis Andrus' minor league numbers don't come close to touching Castro's.

 

But the point is, Rudy helped him to a respectable rookie season last yr. So I kind of expect to see at the worst similar numbers for Castro this yr.

[KingCubsFan]

So when Castro goes .270/.325/.350 this year, are the Cubs going to give him the Pie treatment and waste him too?

 

If he goes .270/.325/.350 at age 20, i highly doubt the cubs will give him the Pie Treatment. He's being brought up knowing how raw he is at age 20, i doubt the cubs are bringing him up on a short leash.

 

Pie got the Pie Treatment when he was only 22.

Exactly. I think people are underestimating the stupidity of this organization when it comes to player development for hitters.

[erik316wttn]

I don't like this move one bit. This is purely a panic move and will ultimately cause more harm than good to Castro. You would have thought that the Cubs would have learned a thing or two about rushing a promising prospect from the whole Corey Patterson and Felix Pie debacle, but that would require Cubs management to learn from it's mistakes, and that's not something it's historically known for doing.

[Guest]

Corey Patterson got the same treatment. They brought him up and promptly sat him on the bench.

 

You see Lou lose patience with the young kids on the hill when they walk someone. You can rest assured he will bat Castro at the bottom of the order and when he doesn't get on base, he'll sit in favor of the veteran.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I don't know what you guys are so mad about. Sure, this has been the next step in the "jerk-them-around" process of wasting good, young hitting prospects for the last 15 times, but maybe this time it will be different?

[Sever82]

Why all the hatred for this move? What more does Castro have to prove in the minors? He is batting .376, and I'm not sure simply having more time at AA would really do that much. Maybe he refines his patience at the plate and improves his glove a bit, but really?

 

Why? Because the Cubs have a horrible track record of rushing prospects to the big leagues, jerking them around when they don't have an immediate positive impact, and then casting them off too soon when they prove to be a "disappointment" by 21/22/23 years old.

 

He's almost being put in a position of needing to be a savior for this team, even if they claim he is not.

 

Batting him 8th does him no favors either.

 

I think you're overreacting, and this bull of cubs prospects being rushed or blah blah is kind of getting tired. To me, if a prospect is good, he'll be good, if he has potential he'll reach his potential under good coaching. Cedeno was hyped by the cubs not by other scouts, Cedeno turned out to be a ok to below average SS. Pie just wasn't as good as they thought, neither was patterson or choi. Wood and Prior were rushed but were as good as they thought, injuries hurt them. Like i said, if a player is good he'll end up being good.

 

The way you put it, you make it seem like some of the prospects the cubs "Casted off" ended up being something somewhere else. If you could, can you tell me of those prospects you speak of that were casted off too soon and had success elsewhere?

[erik316wttn]

I don't know what you guys are so mad about. Sure, this has been the next step in the "jerk-them-around" process of wasting good, young hitting prospects for the last 15 times, but maybe this time it will be different?

 

Sure! Just like when I smash my hand with this hammer! Surely it won't hurt THIS time...

 

 

 

ow

[Guest]

Pie and Patterson are really terrible analogies to this situation.

[Sever82]

So when Castro goes .270/.325/.350 this year, are the Cubs going to give him the Pie treatment and waste him too?

 

If he goes .270/.325/.350 at age 20, i highly doubt the cubs will give him the Pie Treatment. He's being brought up knowing how raw he is at age 20, i doubt the cubs are bringing him up on a short leash.

 

Pie got the Pie Treatment when he was only 22.

Exactly. I think people are underestimating the stupidity of this organization when it comes to player development for hitters.

 

I'll give you guys this, if Lou has a quick leash on the kid than this is a stupid move but if he lets him play through his mistakes, its a good move.

[KaiserCesar]

I dont think there's any way Castro hits under .260 this year, so there may not be as much pressure to bench him as with Patterson/Pie.

[erik316wttn]

Pie and Patterson are really terrible analogies to this situation.

 

How so?

 

Both were top prospects with high celings (supposedly). Both were rushed to the majors well before they were ready, and both fizzled out and became completely worthless in the short span of a few seasons.

 

This is following the same pattern. I don't see how it's out of line to expect the same result.

[Tyrant]

I don't know what you guys are so mad about. Sure, this has been the next step in the "jerk-them-around" process of wasting good, young hitting prospects for the last 15 times, but maybe this time it will be different?

 

I agree. Castro should stay in AA for the next few years, then take a few years to make sure he's got AAA figured out. There's no reason to rush him to Wrigley any sooner than 2015, at the earliest.

[erik316wttn]

I don't know what you guys are so mad about. Sure, this has been the next step in the "jerk-them-around" process of wasting good, young hitting prospects for the last 15 times, but maybe this time it will be different?

 

I agree. Castro should stay in AA for the next few years, then take a few years to make sure he's got AAA figured out. There's no reason to rush him to Wrigley any sooner than 2015, at the earliest.

 

What's with the sarcasm?