Re: Starlin Castro making decision tough on Chicago Cubs

[jersey cubs fan]

True it also might just be that i hate theriot and wish the cubs traded him. I just can't stand all the singles he hits with no one on base. Not to mention the lack of range and noodle arm.

 

I hate Theriot too, partially irrationally. If they could trade him I'd love it. But as long as he's here, there's a significant likelihood that he will be at least as good as Castro right now. I would hate to see them go out and trade for a guy like Theriot, or sign somebody like that to a free agent contract when Castro is poised to take the position, but there's nothing wrong with status quo for now, and there are added benefits that should not be ignored.

 

As a Chicagoan, i think my biggest worry is that the cubs treat theriot like the bulls treat Hinrich. What i mean by that is that they sign theriot to a overpaid long term deal eventhough he's a scrappy average player. And then they would justify it by saying he's a hard working player. I feel the cubs FO, Management and Some fans have built Theriot's ego to where he actually thinks he's a very good player and one of the best at his position.

 

The notes that the front office was upset with Theriot this offseason makes me think maybe that won't happen. It won't keep a worthy Castro down forever. He just had his first arbitration contract, so he's a little bit away from free agency.

[Soul]

I can see why someone might think that about Theriot. But I don't think the Cubs will go down the "Hinrich" road. They did just win arby against Theriot. So they weren't willing to just cave in to his demands.

 

I think Theriot is relegated to the bench or gone in the next couple years, maybe sooner.

[twothousandfive]

The fact that Castro has shown he's an option for 2010, even if it isn't the wisest move, creates some notable flexibility for the Cubs. They are currently a bit challenged with no real back-up SS, but Blanco probably gives them the depth they need. As the season goes on, clearly Baker (28 years old), Fontenot (29) and Theriot (30), offer varying levels of utility value, and could end up as valuable components of a trade be it mid-season of after the season, so long as they play well enough. A Baker/Fontenot platoon gets them both at-bats, and the Cubs can expect a contender to come calling if they get a MI injury. If Theriot's salary makes his value equal to the other two, I could the contender's MI of choice, along with maybe Colvin and some bullpen help, getting the Cubs a promising prospect or two that provides more options for the 2011/2012 roster.

 

Ike Davis from the Mets, Lars Anderson from Boston, or Thomas Neal from SF, added to Castro, Vitters, and Jackson, would make the top tier of the minors worth paying attention to. Even if the Cubs are in contention, they may be able to pull off a similar deal, though they might not be able to include Theriot.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't understand why it's often approached on this board like the Cubs must bring Castro up if Theriot is traded. Why can't they trade Theriot and keep Castro in the minors? I'd happily take starting a combo of Blanco/Barney if it meant getting a good return for Theriot (ideally prospect(s)). It's not like they can't eat the crappy production from SS if it means building for the future. This isn't exactly a team that peple are expecting great things from.

[jersey cubs fan]

A Baker/Fontenot platoon gets them both at-bats, and the Cubs can expect a contender to come calling if they get a MI injury.

 

I'd guess the Cubs would have to do a major sell job before any contender would actually come calling for any of these guys. They would have to be viewed as fallback options.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't understand why it's often approached on this board like the Cubs must bring Castro up if Theriot is traded. Why can't they trade Theriot and keep Castro in the minors? I'd happily take starting a combo of Blanco/Barney if it meant getting a good return for Theriot (ideally prospect(s)). It's not like they can't eat the crappy production from SS if it means building for the future. This isn't exactly a team that peple are expecting great things from.

 

They don't have to do such a thing, but there's pretty much no chance they would trade Theriot and not callup Castro.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't understand why it's often approached on this board like the Cubs must bring Castro up if Theriot is traded. Why can't they trade Theriot and keep Castro in the minors? I'd happily take starting a combo of Blanco/Barney if it meant getting a good return for Theriot (ideally prospect(s)). It's not like they can't eat the crappy production from SS if it means building for the future. This isn't exactly a team that peple are expecting great things from.

 

They don't have to do such a thing, but there's pretty much no chance they would trade Theriot and not callup Castro.

 

I know, and it's annoying. The more things change...

[Backtobanks]

I don't understand why it's often approached on this board like the Cubs must bring Castro up if Theriot is traded. Why can't they trade Theriot and keep Castro in the minors? I'd happily take starting a combo of Blanco/Barney if it meant getting a good return for Theriot (ideally prospect(s)). It's not like they can't eat the crappy production from SS if it means building for the future. This isn't exactly a team that peple are expecting great things from.

 

They don't have to do such a thing, but there's pretty much no chance they would trade Theriot and not callup Castro.

 

There's pretty much no chance they would trade Theriot period.

[shnsajax]

He has to stay down till about the end of April to push back his arbitration clock 1 year. Why not do that regardless of how much money the Cubs can or can't spend. It makes sense for every team not in Boston or in NY. The April difference between him and Theriot is not going to be that great anyways.

[jersey cubs fan]

He has to stay down till about the end of April to push back his arbitration clock 1 year. Why not do that regardless of how much money the Cubs can or can't spend. It makes sense for every team not in Boston or in NY. The April difference between him and Theriot is not going to be that great anyways.

 

In this case there is no point, but in some cases it could do more harm than good if you're spoiling the players opinion of the organization. If it's blatantly obvious that he's the best option, but you keep him down to save a few million three years from now, that can piss off the player.

[biittner77]

He has to stay down till about the end of April to push back his arbitration clock 1 year. Why not do that regardless of how much money the Cubs can or can't spend. It makes sense for every team not in Boston or in NY. The April difference between him and Theriot is not going to be that great anyways.

 

Unless the rules have changed, they only have to keep him down 10 days to delay his arby clock one year.

[CubColtPacer]

He has to stay down till about the end of April to push back his arbitration clock 1 year. Why not do that regardless of how much money the Cubs can or can't spend. It makes sense for every team not in Boston or in NY. The April difference between him and Theriot is not going to be that great anyways.

 

It's more like the end of May for his arbitration clock. It's the middle of April to gain another year until he hits free agency.

 

As Jersey said, sometimes it can make the player upset. But in this case, I can't see that with a reasonable option at the major league level and with Castro still being so young. Holding him down is the right option for the future and shouldn't really affect the present. Plus if he continues to succeed in the minors and pushes his way onto the team there will be pressure to give him some time to work through his struggles at the major league level.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I assume we're talking about holding him down for an extra month in 2011, right?

[Peoriaman]

well, that is business. All MLB teams do it.

 

He has to stay down till about the end of April to push back his arbitration clock 1 year. Why not do that regardless of how much money the Cubs can or can't spend. It makes sense for every team not in Boston or in NY. The April difference between him and Theriot is not going to be that great anyways.

 

In this case there is no point, but in some cases it could do more harm than good if you're spoiling the players opinion of the organization. If it's blatantly obvious that he's the best option, but you keep him down to save a few million three years from now, that can piss off the player.

[Guest]

I assume we're talking about holding him down for an extra month in 2011, right?

 

I think they are just discussing all the different possible scenarios. The most realistic scenario this year is Theriot will be playing SS all year. Depending on what happens at 2nd base and how close the team is to the playoff hunt, I'd still expect them to trade for a 2nd base upgrade (if Fontenot and Baker are below 2b norms) and keep Theriot at SS.

 

Then Castro gets a September call up and Theriot gets rested more while Castro shows what he can do.

[Clem Fandango]

Whenever he makes it up to the big leagues, if he proves to be everything we were anticipating I think the Cubs should consider signing him to one of those team friendly deals like the Rays gave Evan Longoria that buys out all his arbitration years and his first year or two of free agency. That sure would be keen

[jaxxradio]

Why would anyone think this kid is good enough to play for the Cubs right now? He hasn't hit a home run above A ball, has 31 games of experience above A-ball and didn't exactly set the world on fire with his defense in 2009 ( 39 errors total, .950 in Double-A, .933 in High-A). Don't get me wrong, Castro is going to be a good player, but he needs to start the season in the minors, preferably in Double-A where he can take advantage of the warmer weather..put up great numbers there and move up to Triple-A.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Why would anyone think this kid is good enough to play for the Cubs right now? He hasn't hit a home run above A ball, has 31 games of experience above A-ball and didn't exactly set the world on fire with his defense in 2009 ( 39 errors total, .950 in Double-A, .933 in High-A). Don't get me wrong, Castro is going to be a good player, but he needs to start the season in the minors, preferably in Double-A where he can take advantage of the warmer weather..put up great numbers there and move up to Triple-A.

 

This.

[chopsx9]

Why would anyone think this kid is good enough to play for the Cubs right now? He hasn't hit a home run above A ball, has 31 games of experience above A-ball and didn't exactly set the world on fire with his defense in 2009 ( 39 errors total, .950 in Double-A, .933 in High-A). Don't get me wrong, Castro is going to be a good player, but he needs to start the season in the minors, preferably in Double-A where he can take advantage of the warmer weather..put up great numbers there and move up to Triple-A.

 

This.

 

With bells on...

[Shilzzz]

The fact that Castro has shown he's an option for 2010, even if it isn't the wisest move, creates some notable flexibility for the Cubs. They are currently a bit challenged with no real back-up SS, but Blanco probably gives them the depth they need. As the season goes on, clearly Baker (28 years old), Fontenot (29) and Theriot (30), offer varying levels of utility value, and could end up as valuable components of a trade be it mid-season of after the season, so long as they play well enough. A Baker/Fontenot platoon gets them both at-bats, and the Cubs can expect a contender to come calling if they get a MI injury. If Theriot's salary makes his value equal to the other two, I could the contender's MI of choice, along with maybe Colvin and some bullpen help, getting the Cubs a promising prospect or two that provides more options for the 2011/2012 roster.

 

Ike Davis from the Mets, Lars Anderson from Boston, or Thomas Neal from SF, added to Castro, Vitters, and Jackson, would make the top tier of the minors worth paying attention to. Even if the Cubs are in contention, they may be able to pull off a similar deal, though they might not be able to include Theriot.

 

I didn't read your whole post, but if you are seriously saying that the Cubs could acquire Lars Anderson for Ryan Theriot, you are either seriously underrating Epstein or overrating Hendry. That is not happening. The Red Sox value actual talent, not mediocre defenders/on base percentage guys.

[CUBZ99]

Why would anyone think this kid is good enough to play for the Cubs right now? He hasn't hit a home run above A ball, has 31 games of experience above A-ball and didn't exactly set the world on fire with his defense in 2009 ( 39 errors total, .950 in Double-A, .933 in High-A). Don't get me wrong, Castro is going to be a good player, but he needs to start the season in the minors, preferably in Double-A where he can take advantage of the warmer weather..put up great numbers there and move up to Triple-A.

 

Except you left out the part of him putting up a .873 OPS in the AFL against AA-AAA competition. Clearly he is a kid that excels when pushed. I don't have a problem with them starting at AAA, but to base his not being ready to play on the number of HRs he hits in the minors is ridiculous. In regard to his defense, it is pretty obvious that the kid can get to balls that other avg. SS (Theriot) wouldn't or can't get to.

[Clem Fandango]

The fact that Castro has shown he's an option for 2010, even if it isn't the wisest move, creates some notable flexibility for the Cubs. They are currently a bit challenged with no real back-up SS, but Blanco probably gives them the depth they need. As the season goes on, clearly Baker (28 years old), Fontenot (29) and Theriot (30), offer varying levels of utility value, and could end up as valuable components of a trade be it mid-season of after the season, so long as they play well enough. A Baker/Fontenot platoon gets them both at-bats, and the Cubs can expect a contender to come calling if they get a MI injury. If Theriot's salary makes his value equal to the other two, I could the contender's MI of choice, along with maybe Colvin and some bullpen help, getting the Cubs a promising prospect or two that provides more options for the 2011/2012 roster.

 

Ike Davis from the Mets, Lars Anderson from Boston, or Thomas Neal from SF, added to Castro, Vitters, and Jackson, would make the top tier of the minors worth paying attention to. Even if the Cubs are in contention, they may be able to pull off a similar deal, though they might not be able to include Theriot.

 

I didn't read your whole post, but if you are seriously saying that the Cubs could acquire Lars Anderson for Ryan Theriot, you are either seriously underrating Epstein or overrating Hendry. That is not happening. The Red Sox value actual talent, not mediocre defenders/on base percentage guys.

 

I know Lars Anderson is a big prospect name, but his stock dropped significantly this past season, so much so that some scouts/analysts rank him as the 2nd best 1B prospect the Red Sox have behind Anthony Rizzo now. While I agree that an offer of Theriot/Fontenot, and Colvin and a random bullpen arm won't get the job done, I don't think Anderson is as unattainable as he once was.

[Shilzzz]

most red sox prospects hit a wall comparatively moving from A to AA. A is a big time hitters park and AA is the complete opposite. Anderson is still a very good prospect

[davearm2]

I don't understand why it's often approached on this board like the Cubs must bring Castro up if Theriot is traded. Why can't they trade Theriot and keep Castro in the minors? I'd happily take starting a combo of Blanco/Barney if it meant getting a good return for Theriot (ideally prospect(s)). It's not like they can't eat the crappy production from SS if it means building for the future. This isn't exactly a team that peple are expecting great things from.

Well I suppose "great things" is a subjective term, but the folks running the team certainly are planning around fielding a contender this year.

 

Suggesting the Cubs should just fold up their tents before things even get started is pessimistic in the extreme. Heck we're not Baltimore or KC here.

[Geech]

Well I suppose "great things" is a subjective term, but the folks running the team certainly are planning around fielding a contender this year.

 

Suggesting the Cubs should just fold up their tents before things even get started is pessimistic in the extreme. Heck we're not Baltimore or KC here.

 

Giving Castro more time in the minors even if Theriot is traded is not the same thing as "fold[ing] up their tents."