Pitch Counts

[Bruno7481]

Interested to know the general feeling around here concerning pitch counts. I have always been of the opinion that they are a useful tool and need monitoring, but are not the only tool, not the most important tool. I think it is far too simplistic to point to pitch counts as the main reason for injury. It is silly to me to see so much attention placed on pitch counts and not considering any of the other factors involved.

 

I am interested to see how the new philosophy taking shape in Texas with Nolan Ryan turns out. They are stressing more emphasis on conditioning and stamina. They do not remove any of their pitchers simply based on pitch count. Mike Maddux is in agreement on this philosophy as well.

 

I realize this is often a controversial issue, considering some of the promising young arms the Cubs have had issues with over the years.

[SouthSideRyan]

I believe pitch counts are necessary because managers are too stupid and meatheaded to monitor their pitchers on a case by case basis. A pitching coach should be able to monitor a pitcher's mechanics, notice when things are breaking down due to fatigue, track a pitcher's usage following high stress innings/outings, but they don't.

[Bruno7481]

I believe pitch counts are necessary because managers are too stupid and meatheaded to monitor their pitchers on a case by case basis. A pitching coach should be able to monitor a pitcher's mechanics, notice when things are breaking down due to fatigue, track a pitcher's usage following high stress innings/outings, but they don't.

 

You really don't any managers or pitching coaches do that?

 

I think there is some truth to the argument that pitch counts have become so scrutinized that it is effecting their conditioning and stamina. Obviously every situation is different, but I do think pitchers across all levels aren't throwing enough. Don't take that as me advocating a 9 year old go out and throw 300 pitch bullpens 5 times a week. But, I think there are some gains that could be made by more throwing, but those are often neglected by the pervasiveness of the pitch count scare.

[Outshined_One]

Regarding Nolan Ryan's philosophy, is this something they are solely implementing at the major league level, or are they also implementing it in their farm system?

[Bruno7481]

Regarding Nolan Ryan's philosophy, is this something they are solely implementing at the major league level, or are they also implementing it in their farm system?

 

From my understanding, he has implemented a year round program for the entire organization.

[jersey cubs fan]

High school pitchers throwing 150 pitches in a game and going back to back or little rest tells me there is nothing to be gained by pitching more. Pitching more smartly is possible, but the vast majority of coaches are shortsighted morons.

[Clem Fandango]

I don't remember where I read it, but there was an article discussing pitch counts... actually I think it was on ESPN. Anyways, there was a pitching coach who said he had a pitcher who was obsessed with his pitch count, or something to that affect, so he kept track of every pitch/throw he ever threw in the day he pitched, from his pre-game warm ups, to the middle inning warm up pitches and all that. I think he said the total came out to over 300, maybe 400.... I'm probably horribly inaccurate on this, but it was something like that.

 

This really doesn't have much to do with anything regarding thew pros and cons of pitch counts, it's just interesting because a lot of people don't take warm up pitches into account because they obviously aren't throwing 100%, but fact remains they are still throwing hard enough that it could cause some mild fatigue, and also could make you figure that some pitchers might be able to last longer if they lighten up in their warm ups. I don't know, just spitballing for the sake of discussion.

[Guest]

It's a tough question. Rule controlled behavior (i.e., strict limits) is much less sensitive to actual contingencies. On the other hand, teaching a pitching coach how to determine when enough is enough is difficult given the individual nature of performance. If we add the huge sums of money invested it is not tough to see how a strict rule would be favored over learnig history.