Week 16: Bears vs. Vikings, Mon. 7:30 P.M., ESPN

[Banedon]

Yeah, the turf at Soldier is a joke. There was one play on the drive where the Vikings tied it up to force OT where G. Adams (who finally showed some things last night) blew past McKinnie on the edge and was going to light up Favre but he fell coming around the corner. Tons of guys just slipping up.

 

Petersen fell a couple of times trying to cut. Manning fell on his big return if I recall correctly. It was just embarrassing.

[tfarks]

I want the Cover 2 gone. Or at least Rivera's way of downplaying its usage.

 

New OC and DC at least.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Bears play the same exact thing regardless of their own personel shortcomings.

 

OK, I don't know why this bothers me, but do you mean personnel or personal? You did this a lot over the last day or so, and I'm trying to distinguish what you mean.

 

I haven't been posting for a day or so, but I meant personnel and I'm not sure why that wasn't obvious despite the spelling error.

Mostly because both versions could have potentially made sense in context, so I wasn't sure whether you were thought the team had a personnel (talent) issue or a personal (problems with the coaching) issue.

 

Well I don't think the problem is coaches having trouble at home or having sexual relationships with employees, if that clears things up.

[rawaction]

That has been my point as well. Lovie's defensive schemes have proved to not be good enough the last 3 years. And what's the point of keeping Lovie around as a head coach if you aren't running his defense anymore? He's not that good of a motivator or strategist to be a great "in-game" head coach without his hands in one side of the ball or the other, like guys like Ditka and Cowher are/were.

 

Personally I don't see a point. I want him gone. But if you consider how well the defense worked when Rivera was the defensive coordinator, and the fact that Lovie wanted him replaced supposedly because he was less in love with the Tampa 2 than Lovie would prefer, I think you could make a case that a legit coordinator could make the Tampa 2 work with the Bears again by playing it much differently. There's 2 things I hate most about this defense. The Bears play the same exact thing regardless of their own personel shortcomings. Hunter Hillenmeyer is not Brian Urlacher but when he replaced him he was expected to play the exact same way. And their blitzing is pathetic. They just shove guys up the middle to run right into blockers, not getting pressure and leaving guys wide open in the secondary. A coordinator who actually coordinates, that means adapting to the players' strength, mixing up calls and adjusting during the game, could still work with Lovie as head coach.

 

But in addition to a new defensive coordinator, they need somebody to tell Lovie when to challenge and more importantly, not challenge calls, when to use timeouts, and when to try and step on the throat of the opponent late in the 1st half instead of playing not to lose.

 

I don't think the challenges and timeouts are that big of a deal, and Lovie's shortcomings in these areas are way overblown. I don't even think a conservative approach is a problem, if you have the ability to back it up. You can't throw the ball well to get up 2 scores and then conservatively try to run the clock out if you can't run the ball. You can't play bend and don't break defense when your defense constantly breaks down.

[Guest]

You can't throw the ball well to get up 2 scores and then conservatively try to run the clock out if you can't run the ball. You can't play bend and don't break defense when your defense constantly breaks down.

 

Agreed. San Diego has similar problems with the Bears in that their passing game is way better than their running game. Obviously, San Diego is a better team, but the point is that late in games, Rivers will try to make a big play on 1st down when the opposing team figures they will run the ball to run some clock. They know the running game is bad when the defense doesn't know they are running the ball, so what would be the point of running it when they basically assume you are running it. Time and again, Rivers exposes the defense with those types of plays.

 

In fairness, the final touchdown pass in overtime is exactly what I'm referring to. They were almost in field goal range to begin with, and the defense was probably counting on another running play or a short 1st down type of pass, which allowed for DA to have a one on one opportunity.

 

The one thing about Turner's playbook has always been its transparency. There just aren't enough smart gambles in there.

[jersey cubs fan]

I don't think the challenges and timeouts are that big of a deal, and Lovie's shortcomings in these areas are way overblown. I don't even think a conservative approach is a problem, if you have the ability to back it up. You can't throw the ball well to get up 2 scores and then conservatively try to run the clock out if you can't run the ball. You can't play bend and don't break defense when your defense constantly breaks down.

 

I don't see how you can possibly justify this statement. Lovie makes horrible decisions in the challenge game. He wastes timeouts on plays that everybody knows will not be overturned. I'm not even sure what you are trying to say at the end there. The Bears have had numerous opportunities to try and drive late in a half, with 45 seconds or more to go, and they just sit on the ball. Their best offense has been the no huddle pass happy attack that would work in those situations, but the Bears routinely sit on it, or they run a screen, and if that doens't work, let the clock run out. When the opposition has the ball with 45 seconds to go, you just know they are going to move it to at least give them a chance at a FG, but the Bears don't even try.

[SpongeWorthy]

You can't throw the ball well to get up 2 scores and then conservatively try to run the clock out if you can't run the ball. You can't play bend and don't break defense when your defense constantly breaks down.

 

Agreed. San Diego has similar problems with the Bears in that their passing game is way better than their running game. Obviously, San Diego is a better team, but the point is that late in games, Rivers will try to make a big play on 1st down when the opposing team figures they will run the ball to run some clock. They know the running game is bad when the defense doesn't know they are running the ball, so what would be the point of running it when they basically assume you are running it. Time and again, Rivers exposes the defense with those types of plays.

 

In fairness, the final touchdown pass in overtime is exactly what I'm referring to. They were almost in field goal range to begin with, and the defense was probably counting on another running play or a short 1st down type of pass, which allowed for DA to have a one on one opportunity.

 

The one thing about Turner's playbook has always been its transparency. There just aren't enough smart gambles in there.

 

San Diego goes for the big play on all downs from all points on the field at nearly every situation in the game. It's quite effective too.

 

They also have gigantic receivers and a great deep ball throwing QB.

[Banedon]

Bears coach Lovie Smith confirmed Tuesday that cornerback Charles Tillman fractured his ribs and also suffered a bruised lung during the 36-30 victory over Minnesota on Monday night.

 

Yeowch.

[tfarks]

Bears coach Lovie Smith confirmed Tuesday that cornerback Charles Tillman fractured his ribs and also suffered a bruised lung during the 36-30 victory over Minnesota on Monday night.

 

Yeowch.

 

That guy is in an incredible amount of pain right now.

[JonJayCutler]

Bears coach Lovie Smith confirmed Tuesday that cornerback Charles Tillman fractured his ribs and also suffered a bruised lung during the 36-30 victory over Minnesota on Monday night.

 

Yeowch.

 

Dang. Get well soon Peanut. :(

 

Bowman against Calvin should be fun.

[rawaction]

I don't think the challenges and timeouts are that big of a deal, and Lovie's shortcomings in these areas are way overblown. I don't even think a conservative approach is a problem, if you have the ability to back it up. You can't throw the ball well to get up 2 scores and then conservatively try to run the clock out if you can't run the ball. You can't play bend and don't break defense when your defense constantly breaks down.

 

I don't see how you can possibly justify this statement. Lovie makes horrible decisions in the challenge game. He wastes timeouts on plays that everybody knows will not be overturned. I'm not even sure what you are trying to say at the end there. The Bears have had numerous opportunities to try and drive late in a half, with 45 seconds or more to go, and they just sit on the ball. Their best offense has been the no huddle pass happy attack that would work in those situations, but the Bears routinely sit on it, or they run a screen, and if that doens't work, let the clock run out. When the opposition has the ball with 45 seconds to go, you just know they are going to move it to at least give them a chance at a FG, but the Bears don't even try.

 

And you responded just how I figured a person would that overblows the challenge thing. Lovie's career win % in challenges is 32.7%. It is below league average which is 36% over that span, but not that far off to make a difference. He was 7 for 16 in the 2 years prior to this one. Bill Belicheck is consistently in the bottom of the league in challenge win percentage....yet his teams have won double digit games in every season in recent history. The fact is, the challenges, no matter how frustrating they may be, have little effect on the outcome or flow of the game.

 

As for the "numerous" opportunities to drive late in a half....

 

Week 1- Got the ball w/ 47 seconds left in the 1st half.....Plays called: Pass, Spike, Pass, Run, Hail Mary.

Week 2- Scored TD with 23 seconds left in half.

Week 3- Got the ball w/ 9 seconds left

Week 4- Got the ball w/ 26 seconds left......threw the ball 5 times to try to score.

Week 6- Atlanta scored w/ 4 seconds left in the half. Halftime after kickoff.

Week 7- Got the ball w/ 1:11, scored a FG (down 31-0 at the time)

Week 8- did not have the ball at end of half.

Week 9- Got the ball w/ 2:08 left, blocked FG ended drive.

Week 10- Got the ball w/ 1:55 left, made a FG

Week 11- FG w/ 17 seconds left, got the ball w/ 6:18 left

Week 12- Got the ball w/ 1:47 left, Cutler threw INT...got it back w/ 6 seconds, ran the ball

Week 13- Got the ball w/ 1:06 left. Cutler got sacked, fumbled....then the Bears ran the clock out.

Week 14- Got the ball w/ 8 seconds in the half.

Week 15- Got the ball w/ 1:49 left. Incomplete pass, run, Cutler scrambles for 1 yard = 3 and out

Week 16- Last night they obviously didn't sit on the ball w/ a 13-point lead. Only reason they didn't go for a TD last night was Cutler hurt his hand on the play before the FG.

 

So, I count 1 time the Bears have just "sat" on the ball, and even that time they started off going for it before a sack and fumble. Again, that comment is off base and completely false.

 

Not trying to justify anything Lovie has done....just re-iterating my point that those shortcomings are overblown. You are making statement based on what you think your eyes have shown you when there is no factual evidence backing it up.

[17 Seconds]

he's still horrible at clock management. he did it again at the end of rgulation last night. he should have started calling timeouts when the vikings were trying to get into the endzone right at the end. even the horrible mnf crew picked up on it. instead of 15 seconds left (when cutler kneeled), they should have had like 45 seconds (plus one timeout) left to try and get into field goal range.

 

a lot of the time it's like he completely ignores the clock in crucial situations

[rawaction]

he's still horrible at clock management. he did it again at the end of rgulation last night. he should have started calling timeouts when the vikings were trying to get into the endzone right at the end. even the horrible mnf crew picked up on it. instead of 15 seconds left (when cutler kneeled), they should have had like 45 seconds (plus one timeout) left to try and get into field goal range.

 

a lot of the time it's like he completely ignores the clock in crucial situations

 

I don't agree with this. The Bears led by 7. If it was a 1-6 point lead, then you take timeouts to avoid losing the game without getting the ball. Worst case scenario with a 7 point lead is OT. And the Bears were at home, so I have no problem with the way it was played.

[CubColtPacer]

he's still horrible at clock management. he did it again at the end of rgulation last night. he should have started calling timeouts when the vikings were trying to get into the endzone right at the end. even the horrible mnf crew picked up on it. instead of 15 seconds left (when cutler kneeled), they should have had like 45 seconds (plus one timeout) left to try and get into field goal range.

 

a lot of the time it's like he completely ignores the clock in crucial situations

 

I don't agree with this. The Bears led by 7. If it was a 1-6 point lead, then you take timeouts to avoid losing the game without getting the ball. Worst case scenario with a 7 point lead is OT. And the Bears were at home, so I have no problem with the way it was played.

 

Home teams have virtually no advantage in OT (I saw one statistic that said they win 51% of OT games).

 

The question becomes what advantage do the Bears get by not calling timeouts? It didn't hurt the Vikings. They still had plenty of time to not hurry and call their entire playbook. And it had a potential benefit to the Bears with a good kickoff return to have time for more than a couple plays.

[jersey cubs fan]

So, I count 1 time the Bears have just "sat" on the ball, and even that time they started off going for it before a sack and fumble. Again, that comment is off base and completely false.

 

Not trying to justify anything Lovie has done....just re-iterating my point that those shortcomings are overblown. You are making statement based on what you think your eyes have shown you when there is no factual evidence backing it up.

 

This might be breaking news to you raw but Lovie Smith has been the head coach for 6 seasons now. And you are dead wrong. Lovie Smith is an idiot when it comes to clock management, and he makes horrible challenge decisions.

[Guest]

I have to agree with Dexter on this one. There was absolutely no reason to not use your time outs late in that fourth quarter. I was pissed off that they didn't. Minnesota was inside the 10 yard line. They were either going to score or they wouldn't score. If they don't score, run the clock off and call it a day. If they do score, keep enough time on the clock to possibly get a field goal try at the end of regulation.

[jersey cubs fan]

I have to agree with Dexter on this one. There was absolutely no reason to not use your time outs late in that fourth quarter. I was pissed off that they didn't. Minnesota was inside the 10 yard line. They were either going to score or they wouldn't score. If they don't score, run the clock off and call it a day. If they do score, keep enough time on the clock to possibly get a field goal try at the end of regulation.

 

This is how Lovie plays not to lose, instead of playing to win. His goal at all times is for the clock to run out before anything bad happens. They never try to keep time for their own potential drive, they never try to get one last score before half. It is a cowardly way of playing football. This is the style of football that minimizes coach criticism, because the media never questions it, but would question it if something bad actually happened.

[Guest]

he's still horrible at clock management. he did it again at the end of rgulation last night. he should have started calling timeouts when the vikings were trying to get into the endzone right at the end. even the horrible mnf crew picked up on it. instead of 15 seconds left (when cutler kneeled), they should have had like 45 seconds (plus one timeout) left to try and get into field goal range.

 

a lot of the time it's like he completely ignores the clock in crucial situations

 

I don't agree with this. The Bears led by 7. If it was a 1-6 point lead, then you take timeouts to avoid losing the game without getting the ball. Worst case scenario with a 7 point lead is OT. And the Bears were at home, so I have no problem with the way it was played.

 

Home teams have virtually no advantage in OT (I saw one statistic that said they win 51% of OT games).

 

The question becomes what advantage do the Bears get by not calling timeouts? It didn't hurt the Vikings. They still had plenty of time to not hurry and call their entire playbook. And it had a potential benefit to the Bears with a good kickoff return to have time for more than a couple plays.

 

I'm curious what percentage of times the team that wins the coin flip ends up winning the game on the first possession in overtime. A 50% chance at a coin flip and only a 50% chance whether you are the home team or the away team are not bad odds, but the scary one is what happens when your team loses that coin toss, how often teams win the game in that first possession.

 

To me, that percentage is why you save time on the clock in regulation if there is even the most remote possibility you will get the ball back. Especially considering how well the Bears return men can run the ball.

[Guest]

I can still remember clearly Dennis McKinnon running back the first kick in overtime all the way for a touchdown on one cold Thanksgiving day many years ago. NFL overtime rules make things very bad for the team that doesn't have the ball.

 

The way Brett Favre was carving up the defense in the second half, if Minnesota had the ball first in overtime, I would not have liked our chances of winning that game Monday night.

[JonJayCutler]

I would imagine with Knox down that Hester might return against the Lions, considering the weather won't be a factor this week.

 

Oh and for those interested, NFL Network is re-airing the Bears/Vikings game tonight at 8:30 PM CST.

[Guest]

I would imagine with Knox down that Hester might return against the Lions, considering the weather won't be a factor this week.

 

Oh and for those interested, NFL Network is re-airing the Bears/Vikings game tonight at 8:30 PM CST.

 

Awesome! I didn't record it on Monday for obvious reasons. Now I'd like to go back and really analyze that game.

[SouthSideRyan]

I can still remember clearly Dennis McKinnon running back the first kick in overtime all the way for a touchdown on one cold Thanksgiving day many years ago. NFL overtime rules make things very bad for the team that doesn't have the ball.

 

The way Brett Favre was carving up the defense in the second half, if Minnesota had the ball first in overtime, I would not have liked our chances of winning that game Monday night.

 

But the Vikings got the ball, and probably in better field position than if they received a kickoff.

[rawaction]

So, I count 1 time the Bears have just "sat" on the ball, and even that time they started off going for it before a sack and fumble. Again, that comment is off base and completely false.

 

Not trying to justify anything Lovie has done....just re-iterating my point that those shortcomings are overblown. You are making statement based on what you think your eyes have shown you when there is no factual evidence backing it up.

 

This might be breaking news to you raw but Lovie Smith has been the head coach for 6 seasons now. And you are dead wrong. Lovie Smith is an idiot when it comes to clock management, and he makes horrible challenge decisions.

 

Well, I just went thru 1 season because I didn't feel like going thru 6. If you seriously think you can find justification that Lovie has sat on the ball several times then be my guest. My guess is you can't and were talking out of your anus.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I have to agree with Dexter on this one. There was absolutely no reason to not use your time outs late in that fourth quarter. I was pissed off that they didn't. Minnesota was inside the 10 yard line. They were either going to score or they wouldn't score. If they don't score, run the clock off and call it a day. If they do score, keep enough time on the clock to possibly get a field goal try at the end of regulation.

 

This is how Lovie plays not to lose, instead of playing to win. His goal at all times is for the clock to run out before anything bad happens. They never try to keep time for their own potential drive, they never try to get one last score before half. It is a cowardly way of playing football. This is the style of football that minimizes coach criticism, because the media never questions it, but would question it if something bad actually happened.

 

 

I don't know what the hell you people are talking about. on mn's last drive (and under 2:00 min to go) I count 3 incomplete passes, 3 to's called, 1 by Chicago. are you saying Lovie should have called 3 to's consecutively? I don't get your reasoning, it just wreaks of "Lovie sucks, lets pile on him!!!"

 

it was a great game, both teams actually played very well. bitching over time use considering what each side did is moronic

[Guest]

I have to agree with Dexter on this one. There was absolutely no reason to not use your time outs late in that fourth quarter. I was pissed off that they didn't. Minnesota was inside the 10 yard line. They were either going to score or they wouldn't score. If they don't score, run the clock off and call it a day. If they do score, keep enough time on the clock to possibly get a field goal try at the end of regulation.

 

This is how Lovie plays not to lose, instead of playing to win. His goal at all times is for the clock to run out before anything bad happens. They never try to keep time for their own potential drive, they never try to get one last score before half. It is a cowardly way of playing football. This is the style of football that minimizes coach criticism, because the media never questions it, but would question it if something bad actually happened.

 

 

I don't know what the hell you people are talking about. on mn's last drive (and under 2:00 min to go) I count 3 incomplete passes, 3 to's called, 1 by Chicago. are you saying Lovie should have called 3 to's consecutively? I don't get your reasoning, it just wreaks of "Lovie sucks, lets pile on him!!!"

 

it was a great game, both teams actually played very well. bitching over time use considering what each side did is moronic

 

That's not what we are saying. Minnesota HAD to score, which meant that they would probably be throwing the ball into the endzone on at least 1 and probably 2 or 3 occasions. That's what teams generally do. They might try to run one in, but they were on the 8 yard line, so you have to figure Favre is going to pass. The first play GB ran was a running play, and there was 1:04 left on the clock at the start of that play. Call the time out right then. Stop the clock. Why? Because if Green Bay throws it into the end zone on the very next play, you still have nearly a minute to try to get into field goal range. Did you see what Matt Ryan did to the Bears last year with 7 seconds?

 

Anyway, on the next play, Favre passed and the receiver went out of bounds, stopping the clock. Next play was an incomplete pass. The play after that was a touchdown. The Bears could have stopped the clock on that one running play and that would have given them somewhere in the vicinity of 45 seconds to do something. Instead, they had 16 seconds and elected to take a knee to end regulation.

 

It doesn't matter who was coaching for that last 1 minute. That was a horrible use of the time outs and the time remaining.

 

Anything beyond the 1:04 left in the game I will agree with you on. It wasn't until Green Bay was inside the 10 that the Bears should have conceded that Green Bay JUST MIGHT get into the endzone in 4 plays, so clock management should have been taken into serious consideration.

 

It was a great game and the Bears still prevailed, but there is absolutely no way to defend letting the clock run down as far as it did after that running play. That was just plain stupid.