So apparently it's Cameron we're after...

[TruffleShuffle]

Personally, I question the ability of a 37 year old Mike Cameron one year removed from PEDs.

 

it's not like he was pumping his body full of roids; he was taking a stimulant because of lingering effects from a concussion. plus they're apparently looking at signing him for one year, and his numbers have been very consistent the past few seasons. there's no reason to think he'll fall off a cliff in 2010, except for the odd tradition of moderately-productive veterans to sign with the cubs and then get old in about 5 minutes.

[mcgoobs]

Was Cameron injured in 2006-07? Just taking a look at his defensive metrics on fangraphs and they jump a bit when he went to Milwaukee in 2008.

[Serge]

Was Cameron injured in 2006-07? Just taking a look at his defensive metrics on fangraphs and they jump a bit when he went to Milwaukee in 2008.

 

Could be lingering effects of that nasty concussion he had, or could also be that he didn't handle the ravenous dimensions of Safeco well.

 

Edit: I meant Petco, not Safeco

Edited December 6, 2009 by Serge

[Little Slide Rooter]

Was Cameron injured in 2006-07? Just taking a look at his defensive metrics on fangraphs and they jump a bit when he went to Milwaukee in 2008.

 

Could be lingering effects of that nasty concussion he had, or could also be that he didn't handle the ravenous dimensions of Safeco well.

 

Oh yeah, he had that wicked collision with Beltran. I forgot about that. I remember you could almost hear the thud when they played it on sports center.

[NewUserName]

Was Cameron injured in 2006-07? Just taking a look at his defensive metrics on fangraphs and they jump a bit when he went to Milwaukee in 2008.

 

Could be lingering effects of that nasty concussion he had, or could also be that he didn't handle the ravenous dimensions of Safeco well.

 

Oh yeah, he had that wicked collision with Beltran. I forgot about that. I remember you could almost hear the thud when they played it on sports center.

 

How would you know if you could almost hear the thud?

[Ballgame64]

If this is true, I don't mind the move. However, I'd rather take an approach like the Cardinals did last year. Go with a young player or two until late June into July to see if better options become available. I do like the thought of the improved outfield defense with Cameron in CF and Fukudome in RF.

[Cubswin11]

If this is true, I don't mind the move. However, I'd rather take an approach like the Cardinals did last year. Go with a young player or two until late June into July to see if better options become available.I do like the thought of the improved outfield defense with Cameron in CF and Fukudome in RF.

Who do you suggest our young player be? Because if we are running Fuld/Colvin out to CF every game for the first 1/2 of the season we won't be anywhere near contention by the time the trade deadline comes around it won't matter who we trade for because we will be so far back.

[Ballgame64]

If this is true, I don't mind the move. However, I'd rather take an approach like the Cardinals did last year. Go with a young player or two until late June into July to see if better options become available.I do like the thought of the improved outfield defense with Cameron in CF and Fukudome in RF.

Who do you suggest our young player be? Because if we are running Fuld/Colvin out to CF every game for the first 1/2 of the season we won't be anywhere near contention by the time the trade deadline comes around it won't matter who we trade for because we will be so far back.

 

Well, how do you really know if you never give them a chance? If the Cardinals lose Holliday and Pineiro, I have a hard time believing they will be so far out in front in June that there is no chance of catching them. The Brewers still have pitching problems and the rest of the division is the Reds, Pirates and Astros. Acting like Mike Cameron ensures contention but Sam Fuld doesn't is silly.

 

Another thing, if Soriano performs anywhere near his traditional numbers and Soto is more productive, they may not need as much as you think. The Cubs won 83 games last year with Ramirez missing significant time, without getting much from Soriano or Soto, withou getting much from 2nd base and had 4 starting pitchers spend time on the disabled list. Lets not act like they were a 65 win team.

 

The whole point is simply this, why spend your entire budget before a game is played. If Cameron costs $5-8 million, maybe that money is better to be saved for a mid-season acquisition.

[MSG T]

If this is true, I don't mind the move. However, I'd rather take an approach like the Cardinals did last year. Go with a young player or two until late June into July to see if better options become available.I do like the thought of the improved outfield defense with Cameron in CF and Fukudome in RF.

Who do you suggest our young player be? Because if we are running Fuld/Colvin out to CF every game for the first 1/2 of the season we won't be anywhere near contention by the time the trade deadline comes around it won't matter who we trade for because we will be so far back.

 

Well, how do you really know if you never give them a chance? If the Cardinals lose Holliday and Pineiro, I have a hard time believing they will be so far out in front in June that there is no chance of catching them. The Brewers still have pitching problems and the rest of the division is the Reds, Pirates and Astros. Acting like Mike Cameron ensures contention but Sam Fuld doesn't is silly.

 

Another thing, if Soriano performs anywhere near his traditional numbers and Soto is more productive, they may not need as much as you think. The Cubs won 83 games last year with Ramirez missing significant time, without getting much from Soriano or Soto, withou getting much from 2nd base and had 4 starting pitchers spend time on the disabled list. Lets not act like they were a 65 win team.

 

The whole point is simply this, why spend your entire budget before a game is played. If Cameron costs $5-8 million, maybe that money is better to be saved for a mid-season acquisition.

 

 

Because the Cubs biggest problem last year was offense. Ramirez will put up good numbers assuming he's healthy, but to count on it happening all year is a bad idea. Soriano may very well rebound, but he may not. Same for Soto. Then you throw in the lack of offense at SS and 2B. Why give yourself ANOTHER position that's not productive. Will all of those happen. Probably not. But some will, so you don't paint yourself into a corner in one position if there is a very acceptable solution available. A Fuld or Colvin, or any of the other minor league possibilities, would put up bad offensive numbers. The Cubs don't need that.

 

No one is saying to sign the guy for a 3-4 year deal. But for a short term fix, until some of those young guys are ready, Cameron is a VERY good option.

[TruffleShuffle]

Was Cameron injured in 2006-07? Just taking a look at his defensive metrics on fangraphs and they jump a bit when he went to Milwaukee in 2008.

 

Could be lingering effects of that nasty concussion he had, or could also be that he didn't handle the ravenous dimensions of Safeco well.

 

Edit: I meant Petco, not Safeco

 

i believe you mean cavernous, unless you are suggesting that the stadium is extremely hungry or has a voracious sexual craving.

[Serge]

Was Cameron injured in 2006-07? Just taking a look at his defensive metrics on fangraphs and they jump a bit when he went to Milwaukee in 2008.

 

Could be lingering effects of that nasty concussion he had, or could also be that he didn't handle the ravenous dimensions of Safeco well.

 

Edit: I meant Petco, not Safeco

 

i believe you mean cavernous, unless you are suggesting that the stadium is extremely hungry or has a voracious sexual craving.

 

Haha, yeah. Don't judge me though I was hungover :D

[fiver]

Was Cameron injured in 2006-07? Just taking a look at his defensive metrics on fangraphs and they jump a bit when he went to Milwaukee in 2008.

 

Could be lingering effects of that nasty concussion he had, or could also be that he didn't handle the ravenous dimensions of Safeco well.

 

Edit: I meant Petco, not Safeco

 

i believe you mean cavernous, unless you are suggesting that the stadium is extremely hungry or has a voracious sexual craving.

 

Haha, yeah. Don't judge me though I was hungover :D

 

you are who you eat.

 

http://www.cinemademerde.com/Ravenous-calhoun.gif

[Ballgame64]

If this is true, I don't mind the move. However, I'd rather take an approach like the Cardinals did last year. Go with a young player or two until late June into July to see if better options become available.I do like the thought of the improved outfield defense with Cameron in CF and Fukudome in RF.

Who do you suggest our young player be? Because if we are running Fuld/Colvin out to CF every game for the first 1/2 of the season we won't be anywhere near contention by the time the trade deadline comes around it won't matter who we trade for because we will be so far back.

 

Well, how do you really know if you never give them a chance? If the Cardinals lose Holliday and Pineiro, I have a hard time believing they will be so far out in front in June that there is no chance of catching them. The Brewers still have pitching problems and the rest of the division is the Reds, Pirates and Astros. Acting like Mike Cameron ensures contention but Sam Fuld doesn't is silly.

 

Another thing, if Soriano performs anywhere near his traditional numbers and Soto is more productive, they may not need as much as you think. The Cubs won 83 games last year with Ramirez missing significant time, without getting much from Soriano or Soto, withou getting much from 2nd base and had 4 starting pitchers spend time on the disabled list. Lets not act like they were a 65 win team.

 

The whole point is simply this, why spend your entire budget before a game is played. If Cameron costs $5-8 million, maybe that money is better to be saved for a mid-season acquisition.

 

 

Because the Cubs biggest problem last year was offense. Ramirez will put up good numbers assuming he's healthy, but to count on it happening all year is a bad idea. Soriano may very well rebound, but he may not. Same for Soto. Then you throw in the lack of offense at SS and 2B. Why give yourself ANOTHER position that's not productive. Will all of those happen. Probably not. But some will, so you don't paint yourself into a corner in one position if there is a very acceptable solution available. A Fuld or Colvin, or any of the other minor league possibilities, would put up bad offensive numbers. The Cubs don't need that.

 

No one is saying to sign the guy for a 3-4 year deal. But for a short term fix, until some of those young guys are ready, Cameron is a VERY good option.

 

I know its a small sample size, but Fuld hit .299 with an OBP of .409, and OPS of .821. Again, I am not against signing Cameron, but for people to act like there is no way Fuld could be product enough at the major league minimum is ridiculous. I'd rather see if there is a way to upgrade 2nd or SS before signing Cameron.

 

Unforunately, 2008 was an aberration. The Cubs offense in 2009 was the same type of offense it has been for as long as anyone can remember - team wide slumps, mediocre obp, few walks and a lot of strikeouts. Adding Cameron doesn't change that. It is not a horrible move by any means, it is just a typical move by the Cubs. Add a veteran because that is what your manager wants.

[RynoRules]

If we are signinig Cameron, then who are we getting for Bradley and where will that player fit-in? Does Burrell become the 4th OF'er? Edited December 7, 2009 by RynoRules

[TruffleShuffle]

fuld would be a bad full-time or most-of-the-time cf.

[SouthSideRyan]

The Cubs were 6th in the NL in walks last year. And if they were bad at drawing walks, Cameron would certainly help that. And I think just about every fan of every team thinks their team's offense is all or nothing, when there's usually nothing to support it.

[Ballgame64]

fuld would be a bad full-time or most-of-the-time cf.

 

Why? Because you said so. At what point does the organization give these guys a legitimate chance? Ricketts isn't going to approve $150+ payroll so at some point the team is going to have to count on their young players to produce.

 

It is funny that most people ridicule Hendry for his free agent signings, but yet trust he will do the right thing in their mind and only sign Cameron to a one year deal similar to Bobby Abreu last winter. Didn't the re-signing of Grabow illustrate the opposite.

[SouthSideRyan]

fuld would be a bad full-time or most-of-the-time cf.

 

Why? Because you said so. At what point does the organization give these guys a legitimate chance? Ricketts isn't going to approve $150+ payroll so at some point the team is going to have to count on their young players to produce.

 

It is funny that most people ridicule Hendry for his free agent signings, but yet trust he will do the right thing in their mind and only sign Cameron to a one year deal similar to Bobby Abreu last winter. Didn't the re-signing of Grabow illustrate the opposite.

 

Sam Fuld should probably do something to prove he deserves a legitamate chance. When it's a legit prospect(Pie) that gets dicked over, I'm right there grabbing my pitchfork. When Sam Fuld isn't being given the starting CF job because of a good 100 major league AB, I'm ok with that.

[Sammy Sofa]

fuld would be a bad full-time or most-of-the-time cf.

 

Why? Because you said so. At what point does the organization give these guys a legitimate chance? Ricketts isn't going to approve $150+ payroll so at some point the team is going to have to count on their young players to produce.

 

It is funny that most people ridicule Hendry for his free agent signings, but yet trust he will do the right thing in their mind and only sign Cameron to a one year deal similar to Bobby Abreu last winter. Didn't the re-signing of Grabow illustrate the opposite.

 

Sam Fuld has done nothing to show that he deserves a "legitimate chance" to be a fulltime OFer or even a regular platoon OFer. It's one thing to actually let good prospects get a chance...it's something totally different to let mediocre at the very best prospects get a chance as a fulltime player.

 

Sam Fuld's performance in the majors is the epitome of sample size results. There's absolutely nothing in his career up until that point that inidcates he'd be able to sustain close to those numbers barring a miracle.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Sammy Sofa

[dew1679666265]

I know its a small sample size, but Fuld hit .299 with an OBP of .409, and OPS of .821. Again, I am not against signing Cameron, but for people to act like there is no way Fuld could be product enough at the major league minimum is ridiculous. I'd rather see if there is a way to upgrade 2nd or SS before signing Cameron.

 

Unforunately, 2008 was an aberration. The Cubs offense in 2009 was the same type of offense it has been for as long as anyone can remember - team wide slumps, mediocre obp, few walks and a lot of strikeouts. Adding Cameron doesn't change that. It is not a horrible move by any means, it is just a typical move by the Cubs. Add a veteran because that is what your manager wants.

 

The options for upgrading SS and 2B are not very good this offseason. Whereas, Mike Cameron would be a very productive addition, both offensively and defensively, to the team. As for Fuld, he OPSd .777 in the minors and his 2009 numbers were influenced very heavily by 13 games where he OPSd over .900. It's unlikely that he'd be a good option over the course of 81 games.

 

Also, I don't feel like intentionally starting the season with a weaker starting lineup is a very good idea. If you want to try some guys like Fuld and Colvin on the ML bench and then upgrade if needed at the deadline, that's fine. Or if the options for upgrading now were poor and you decided to wait, that'd be understandable as well. But if there's a very good option to add to the team (which Cameron is) it doesn't make much sense to intentionally make the starting lineup worse in the hope that maybe if we're in contention there might be a player better than Cameron who might be more affordable (or as affordable) as Cameron is.

[Little Slide Rooter]

fuld would be a bad full-time or most-of-the-time cf.

 

Why? Because you said so. At what point does the organization give these guys a legitimate chance? Ricketts isn't going to approve $150+ payroll so at some point the team is going to have to count on their young players to produce.

 

It is funny that most people ridicule Hendry for his free agent signings, but yet trust he will do the right thing in their mind and only sign Cameron to a one year deal similar to Bobby Abreu last winter. Didn't the re-signing of Grabow illustrate the opposite.

 

Sam Fuld has done nothing to show that he deserves a "legitimate chance" to be a fulltime OFer or even a regular platoon OFer. It's one thing to actually let good prospects get a chance...it's something totally different to let mediocre at the very best prospects get a chance as a fulltime player.

 

Sam Fuld's performance in the majors is the epitome of sample size results. There's absolutely nothing in his career up until that point that inidcates he'd be able to sustain close to those numbers barring a miracle.

 

Its no secret Im a fan of guys like Fuld, Fox, and Colvin being brought up to fill bench spots rather than pay a mil+ to guys like Gathright or Miles, but you cant take guys like this and throw them into the line of fire. When these types of players come up, they are bench guys or spot starters, unless specifically brought in as a short term answer to fill a hole left by injury. Trading Bradley and starting the season with an unproven player in a starting role like that would be inexcuseable, club house cancer or not.

[Soul]

Fine but no more Gathright or Miles signings plz. Not with the idea that they are actually good players, which is what it seems Hendry was doing last year. If that is what he is going to do again, then I really would rather just play a young player.

[SouthSideRyan]

And why would you be upset with blocking Fuld, but not with blocking Castro?

[Hall7810]

Joel Sherman tweeted "Cubs want Cameron, but so do the Yanks, which is interesting because the Cubs also like Melky Cabrera."

[SouthSideRyan]

Joel Sherman tweeted "Cubs want Cameron, but so do the Yanks, which is interesting because the Cubs also like Melky Cabrera."

 

Oh give me a [expletive] break.