Re: Bears Offseason Thread

[SpongeWorthy]

D. Manning is a very good kick returner. Doesn't score as often as Hester did but he has a lot of good returns. He's also less fumbly than Hester.

 

Bennett was a pretty good PR as well but yeah, I'd love Hester to start doing some damage there again. I thought he showed some signs of being able to handle the PR and being a full time receiver too.

 

Edit: Forgot Knox too, averaged 29 yards a kick return. That's damn good.

[UMFan83]

Maybe so (but do four years as a part time-receiver and returner really ware you down), but I still think he is most valuable to the team taking the kicks and punts. He needs to break just one or two and guys will kick the ball out or away from him giving the Bears great field position. Knox can do everything Hester does as a receiver even better. There really is no need for him there. Aromoshadu is the tall threat. Knox is the speed threat. Bennett is the possession guy. Devin is the fourth receiver who will barely get used and certainly won't lose his speed being on the field a few plays a game.

 

Maybe maybe not. But I think there is a very fine line between elite KRs and good ones. Hester was arguably the best kick returner ever for a 2 year stretch. But he was as great as he was because he was a threat to score a TD every time he returned a kick. However when he isn't breaking touchdowns, I don't think he's really much better of a returner than Manning. With TDs, he's incomparably better. He hasn't broken a TD in 2 seasons...so it's a tough call.

[Magnetic Curses]

cutler threw probably 10 picks last year that were absolutely not his fault, completely independent of the picks he threw because he had like 1 second to throw. turner's offense does not favor inexperienced, dumb receivers at all. knox and hester's ability to read coverages comes in just behind their ability to read books. cutler would throw it to the right places on the field, only his receivers would be in the exact opposite places they were supposed to be. i don't know you could have watched the games and surmised that many of the interceptions that he threw where no offensive players were near the ball were his fault. it's not like he was trying to throw the ball to a defensive player, it's just that he was expecting his receiver to be in front of that player at the time.

 

quarterbacks throw the ball to the parts of the field that they anticipate their receivers being in. if the receivers are nowhere near those places on the field, it's not the qb's fault, it's oc's fault for not hitting the receivers in the head with a tack hammer. knox and hester are fast beyond all belief, but they do not know where to be and they may never know.

[rawaction]

Wow. Hester really getting a bad rap in the last few posts. For as dumb as he supposedly is, he has been this team's best WR for 2 years. He has led all the WRs in catches, yards, and YPC for 2 straight seasons. While you can argue that he's been given the most opportunity out of all the WRs, he has put up respectable numbers for a guy that went from kick returner to cornerback to gadget play WR to #1 WR overnight. He's only been a full-time WR for 2 years and has 100+ catches for 1300+ yards. And Lord knows he hasn't had the greatest coaching on how to play WR. Playing under Martz and working with Ike Bruce should help him take the next step. Even if it doesn't and guys like Aromashodu and Knox overtake him, he's still shown he can be a solid #3 WR.

 

As for Cutler's INTs, I do believe a large number of them were because of the WRs not being in the right place, reading the defense wrong, or being pushed off their routes by CBs. However, Cutler can't be free of the blame on all of those. At some point, he has to adjust. If your WRs aren't getting to the spot, maybe he should stop throwing it to the spot. Throw it to the WR and make them adjust. Peyton Manning doesn't throw those types of INTs. Drew Brees doesn't. Are Hester, Knox, and Bennett that much worse at getting to their spot than Pierre Garcon or Robert Meachem who nobody heard of before this year either? The OC has to make adjustments too to his WRs strengths.

[Banedon]

Wow. Hester really getting a bad rap in the last few posts. For as dumb as he supposedly is, he has been this team's best WR for 2 years. He has led all the WRs in catches, yards, and YPC for 2 straight seasons. While you can argue that he's been given the most opportunity out of all the WRs, he has put up respectable numbers for a guy that went from kick returner to cornerback to gadget play WR to #1 WR overnight. He's only been a full-time WR for 2 years and has 100+ catches for 1300+ yards. And Lord knows he hasn't had the greatest coaching on how to play WR. Playing under Martz and working with Ike Bruce should help him take the next step. Even if it doesn't and guys like Aromashodu and Knox overtake him, he's still shown he can be a solid #3 WR.

 

As for Cutler's INTs, I do believe a large number of them were because of the WRs not being in the right place, reading the defense wrong, or being pushed off their routes by CBs. However, Cutler can't be free of the blame on all of those. At some point, he has to adjust. If your WRs aren't getting to the spot, maybe he should stop throwing it to the spot. Throw it to the WR and make them adjust. Peyton Manning doesn't throw those types of INTs. Drew Brees doesn't. Are Hester, Knox, and Bennett that much worse at getting to their spot than Pierre Garcon or Robert Meachem who nobody heard of before this year either? The OC has to make adjustments too to his WRs strengths.

 

Last year's preseason was a love fest....Cutler coming to save the day. This year, it's doom and gloom time. Our WR's suck, our QB sucks, our RB sucks....

 

It's just the way it works.

[rawaction]

I was going thru the entire league in my head, and to me, the Bears are the biggest mystery team this season. Some things are given. The Colts and Saints are going to be good offensively. The Jets and Steelers are going to be good defensively, barring injuries. There's clear cut favorites. There's clear bottom feeders. And then there's teams that could go from the 7-9 win area to contender.

 

I think the Bears could be a top 10 or bottom 10 team in offense and/or defense. I really don't know what to expect from this team.

[Banedon]

I didn't realize that Ogunleye hasn't signed with a team yet. Asking for too much I wonder?

[jersey cubs fan]

I was going thru the entire league in my head, and to me, the Bears are the biggest mystery team this season. Some things are given. The Colts and Saints are going to be good offensively. The Jets and Steelers are going to be good defensively, barring injuries. There's clear cut favorites. There's clear bottom feeders. And then there's teams that could go from the 7-9 win area to contender.

 

I think the Bears could be a top 10 or bottom 10 team in offense and/or defense. I really don't know what to expect from this team.

 

No idea where they will end up.

 

 

But I believe the Jets could bomb as well. People overlove teams that lead the league in defense. That isn't necessarily sustainable. That great defense brought them 9 wins last season.

[soapy]

I was going thru the entire league in my head, and to me, the Bears are the biggest mystery team this season. Some things are given. The Colts and Saints are going to be good offensively. The Jets and Steelers are going to be good defensively, barring injuries. There's clear cut favorites. There's clear bottom feeders. And then there's teams that could go from the 7-9 win area to contender.

 

I think the Bears could be a top 10 or bottom 10 team in offense and/or defense. I really don't know what to expect from this team.

 

No idea where they will end up.

 

 

But I believe the Jets could bomb as well. People overlove teams that lead the league in defense. That isn't necessarily sustainable. That great defense brought them 9 wins last season.

 

One of which was a gift from the Colts.

 

I really don't know what to expect of the Bears offense this season. The comments from Cutler about the whole offense relying on timing and receivers being in the right place at the right time make me a little nervous base on what we saw from this group of receivers last season. I'm not at SpongeWorthy's level by any means, but I'd say my expectations are...tempered.

[UMFan83]

Here's what I think....

 

Wow. Hester really getting a bad rap in the last few posts. For as dumb as he supposedly is, he has been this team's best WR for 2 years. He has led all the WRs in catches, yards, and YPC for 2 straight seasons. While you can argue that he's been given the most opportunity out of all the WRs, he has put up respectable numbers for a guy that went from kick returner to cornerback to gadget play WR to #1 WR overnight. He's only been a full-time WR for 2 years and has 100+ catches for 1300+ yards. And Lord knows he hasn't had the greatest coaching on how to play WR. Playing under Martz and working with Ike Bruce should help him take the next step. Even if it doesn't and guys like Aromashodu and Knox overtake him, he's still shown he can be a solid #3 WR.

 

Valid points, but being the Bears best WR over the last 2 seasons isn't really saying much. That said, he's definitely been a better receiver than he is treated. I don't think he's a 1 or 2 receiver on a good offense but a pretty good number 3 would be fair. As a 1, he disappeared for long stretches of games, suggesting that he wasn't getting open/wasn't running his routes crisply. He did have some solid games at the beginning of the year last year where we was really making himself visable though. And not just as a deep threat, but over the middle as well. Still frustrates me to no end that he made that extra cut in the open field late in the Atlanta game that I am convinced if he doesn't make, he's gone for a game tying TD.

 

As for Cutler's INTs, I do believe a large number of them were because of the WRs not being in the right place, reading the defense wrong, or being pushed off their routes by CBs. However, Cutler can't be free of the blame on all of those. At some point, he has to adjust. If your WRs aren't getting to the spot, maybe he should stop throwing it to the spot. Throw it to the WR and make them adjust. Peyton Manning doesn't throw those types of INTs. Drew Brees doesn't.

 

Well I think that Cutler is the type of QB that has his spots and has to hit his spots to be the most effective QB he can be. Grossman was the same way. If you don't have Cutler throwing to spots on the field, he probably becomes extremely conservative dumping off to flats and trying to find the TE. You saw Cutler in some games trying to force everything to the TE because his receivers weren't getting open. But the lack of running game the Bears had last year killed them as well as the opponsing D would constantly only put 4 in the box and 7 out to defend the pass. Bottom line though, there has to be a trust between Cutler and his receivers, or the offense simply isn't going to work. And Martz is only going to make Cutler throw to spots on the field move, as his offense is predicated on making precise routes and throwing the ball before cuts are made.

 

Are Hester, Knox, and Bennett that much worse at getting to their spot than Pierre Garcon or Robert Meachem who nobody heard of before this year either? The OC has to make adjustments too to his WRs strengths.

 

No but I think one thing that hurts the WRs on the Bears (in addition to no running game leaving 7 defenders out in the passing game), is the fact that they have no number 1 receiver to command extra attention out there. In fact they don't even have a receiver can get hot during a given game and demand attention.

[Magnetic Curses]

As for Cutler's INTs, I do believe a large number of them were because of the WRs not being in the right place, reading the defense wrong, or being pushed off their routes by CBs. However, Cutler can't be free of the blame on all of those. At some point, he has to adjust. If your WRs aren't getting to the spot, maybe he should stop throwing it to the spot. Throw it to the WR and make them adjust. Peyton Manning doesn't throw those types of INTs. Drew Brees doesn't. Are Hester, Knox, and Bennett that much worse at getting to their spot than Pierre Garcon or Robert Meachem who nobody heard of before this year either? The OC has to make adjustments too to his WRs strengths.

 

qbs can't throw to receivers, if they throw to receivers they won't throw any completions. the coaches can simplify the routes and tell the receivers to never ever deviate, but again, you'll have cutler throwing into heavy coverage because oftentimes they'll be running into the defense.

 

cutler and the receivers need to get on the same page, whether that means hester getting stronger or knox undergoing a lawnmower man-type therapy to improve his iq to 75. figure it out, martz.

[rawaction]

From what I understand, Martz's offense is different in that while it also requires the QB to throw to a spot....it's not as quick hitting. Basically, last year the Bears ran a lot of 3-step drops. Slants, outs, curls. Cutler was supposed to drop 3 steps, read the D, throw to where the open WR should be. If you are getting rid of the ball that quickly, timing is more important in my opinion, because either the WR is going to be there, or a defender is because the WRs haven't had enough time to clear out the defenders and defenders aren't as deep in their drops after 3 seconds.

 

With Martz, there are a lot of 5 or 7 step drops then throw to a spot. Which gives speedy WRs a couple extra ticks to use their speed to get open. The slowest CB can cover the fastest WR for 3-4 seconds. That changes when you throw a couple extra seconds in there. That's what made the Rams and Lions so successful under Martz. It also allows for an extra half second or two for a WR to get off a bump.

 

Of course, the problem Martz's offenses have had is that it also means the OL has to protect longer and the QB to hold the ball longer, which had led to either sacks or turnovers. The scary part is that was the problem the Bears had last year with shorter drops.

[Banedon]

Regardless of the results of this season, I sure am looking forward to seeing Mike Martz's offense rather than Ron Turner's.

[Magnetic Curses]

From what I understand, Martz's offense is different in that while it also requires the QB to throw to a spot....it's not as quick hitting. Basically, last year the Bears ran a lot of 3-step drops. Slants, outs, curls. Cutler was supposed to drop 3 steps, read the D, throw to where the open WR should be. If you are getting rid of the ball that quickly, timing is more important in my opinion, because either the WR is going to be there, or a defender is because the WRs haven't had enough time to clear out the defenders and defenders aren't as deep in their drops after 3 seconds.

 

With Martz, there are a lot of 5 or 7 step drops then throw to a spot. Which gives speedy WRs a couple extra ticks to use their speed to get open. The slowest CB can cover the fastest WR for 3-4 seconds. That changes when you throw a couple extra seconds in there. That's what made the Rams and Lions so successful under Martz. It also allows for an extra half second or two for a WR to get off a bump.

 

Of course, the problem Martz's offenses have had is that it also means the OL has to protect longer and the QB to hold the ball longer, which had led to either sacks or turnovers. The scary part is that was the problem the Bears had last year with shorter drops.

 

i think their line is improved, though i thought it was improved last year and it wasn't. we'll see how the receivers perform in martz's offense, hopefully hester actually HAS picked some things up from bruce and it's not just fluff.

[treebird]

cutler and the receivers need to get on the same page, whether that means hester getting stronger or knox undergoing a lawnmower man-type therapy to improve his iq to 75. figure it out, martz.

 

i liked this a lot

[JonJayCutler]

A huge key to how well this offense performs will be Forte, who is supposedly 100% healthy now. People on CTL yesterday were talking about how he was hurt a lot worse than what most people thought. Hopefully he can rebound from his injury Soriano style.

[Tyrant]

Going into the 2nd Minnesota game the Bears were 5-9 and Cutler had 19 TDs and 25 picks. Then he went 8-1 TD/INTs in the final two games when the only thing to play for was Lovie's job.

 

And if you take out all the games where he had a QB rating above 80, he was REALLY terrible.

[UMFan83]

Did you know Cutler had 19 TDs and 3 INTs in games where he threw more TDs than INTs (7 games) and had 3 TDs and 18 INTs in games where he threw more INTs than TDs (6 games).

 

Yeah, that stat is just as pointless as some of the others.

[Banedon]

Did you know Cutler had 19 TDs and 3 INTs in games where he threw more TDs than INTs (7 games) and had 3 TDs and 18 INTs in games where he threw more INTs than TDs (6 games).

 

Yeah, that stat is just as pointless as some of the others.

 

Good Rex Bad Rex...err...Jay.

[NCCubFan]

Time to retire this thread since the preseason thread has been started.