Re: Bears Offseason Thread

[soapy]

I can't believe I'm going to do this, but let's see your list of QBs that would have been better than Cutler on the 2009 Bears, Kyle.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I can't believe I'm going to do this, but let's see your list of QBs that would have been better than Cutler on the 2009 Bears, Kyle.

 

No point, because the fundamental disagreement is going to be that I'll take a season with fewer yards and touchdowns in exchange for a lot fewer picks. Everyone else in this argument has made it clear that they don't think the picks are nearly as much of a negative as I do. That's going to be where we differ.

[Sammy Sofa]

So your expectations for "better" really would just be less picks? This person would be a better quarterback if he threw only a dozen picks, but also threw ten less touchdowns and 1200 less yards?

[Magnetic Curses]

He set the franchise record for interceptions.

 

actually, no he didn't.

 

but favre is the single seasons packers' leader, peyton with the colts (unitas is second and third), tarkenton with the vikings, sonny jurgensen with the eagles, stabler with oakland. do want a list of great quarterbacks who have thrown 26 ints or more in a single season?

[CubColtPacer]

Small point, but championship teams don't get built on 1st round picks. Yes, they're important, but they get built by finding great value in your 3rd, 4th, and 5th round picks. Guys who aren't necessarily superstars, but guys who start and contribute for a decent period of time and don't cost a ton of money.

 

That is true...but first round picks are still incredibly important because that's typically where you find your impact players. The Colts have been the best example of how to use first round picks where they basically built their team from the ground up using them (Harrison, Glenn, Manning, James, Wayne, Freeney, Clark in a 8 year period). I would agree though that constantly replacing your good (not great) players with low round picks is essential to having a long run of success.

 

As for the Cutler trade, if he doesn't ever become an elite QB he probably won't be worth what the Bears traded for him. Returning to Denver numbers won't be good enough IMO to trade 2 1sts and a 3rd (if you assume Orton was traded for the 5th). That's way too much value to give up for a QB who has turned it over too much his whole career. He still has plenty of time though to try to learn how to not make those horrible throws and to label him a bust after one year is premature. I definitely believe it is an uphill battle though because it's really hard to make that leap into the next echelon of QB's.

[soapy]

I can't believe I'm going to do this, but let's see your list of QBs that would have been better than Cutler on the 2009 Bears, Kyle.

 

No point, because the fundamental disagreement is going to be that I'll take a season with fewer yards and touchdowns in exchange for a lot fewer picks. Everyone else in this argument has made it clear that they don't think the picks are nearly as much of a negative as I do. That's going to be where we differ.

 

No. I can only speak for myself, but of course the picks are a horrible problem. I just don't think it's going to continue to happen at that level. Not one person here has suggested that 26 picks isn't horrible, it is.

[jersey cubs fan]

Okay, simple question.

 

29 other starting QBs in the league.

 

How many of them, swapped into the 2009 Bears offense, have better seasons than Cutler's?

 

Not many. I'd say maybe 4-5. Maybe.

 

And I'm assuming by "better" you're not only meaning "less picks," right?

 

I'd say probably a couple more than that, but otherwise, that's it. Some of the guys who had better years, like Brett Favre, would have been disastrous.

 

I'm guessing Manning, Brady, Brees (although that's no guarantee given the vast difference in situations), Rivers, Roethlisberger, maybe McNabb.

 

But look at the list of the most prolific QB's last season, it's dominated by dome and nice weather teams, and every single one of them had a vastly superior collection of skill position players and/or offensive line. There's only three guys in the top ten of ratings who had to play in challenging conditions, and all three of them had weapons that mop the floor of the Bears.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

He set the franchise record for interceptions.

 

actually, no he didn't.

 

but favre is the single seasons packers' leader, peyton with the colts (unitas is second and third), tarkenton with the vikings, sonny jurgensen with the eagles, stabler with oakland. do want a list of great quarterbacks who have thrown 26 ints or more in a single season?

 

In the modern era, in their age 26 season? Sure.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So your expectations for "better" really would just be less picks? This person would be a better quarterback if he threw only a dozen picks, but also threw ten less touchdowns and 1200 less yards?

 

That'd give us 2400 yards, 15 touchdowns, 10 picks?

 

It'd be close, but yeah, I'd probably take that season over 3600, 27,26

[Sammy Sofa]

He set the franchise record for interceptions.

 

actually, no he didn't.

 

but favre is the single seasons packers' leader, peyton with the colts (unitas is second and third), tarkenton with the vikings, sonny jurgensen with the eagles, stabler with oakland. do want a list of great quarterbacks who have thrown 26 ints or more in a single season?

 

In the modern era, in their age 26 season? Sure.

 

Peyton and Favre don't play in the "modern era?" And why is age 26 so ciritcla to the equation?

[Sammy Sofa]

So your expectations for "better" really would just be less picks? This person would be a better quarterback if he threw only a dozen picks, but also threw ten less touchdowns and 1200 less yards?

 

That'd give us 2400 yards, 15 touchdowns, 10 picks?

 

It'd be close, but yeah, I'd probably take that season over 3600, 27,26

 

A dozen = 12, but close enough, I guess. 2400 yards, 17 touchdowns, 12 picks. Either way, congratulations, the Bears probably just went something like 4-12 or 3-13.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Peyton and Favre don't play in the "modern era?" And why is age 26 so ciritcla to the equation?

 

Because I want Cutler to be a lot better than Favre, and Manning threw his his 28 picks as a rookie at age 22. He only broke 20 once after that.

[jersey cubs fan]

So your expectations for "better" really would just be less picks? This person would be a better quarterback if he threw only a dozen picks, but also threw ten less touchdowns and 1200 less yards?

 

That'd give us 2400 yards, 15 touchdowns, 10 picks?

 

It'd be close, but yeah, I'd probably take that season over 3600, 27,26

 

2400 yards? That is absurd. That's more or less Sanchez with half the picks and his team needed the best defense in the league plus the best running game in the league just to finish a game over .500.

 

You can't talk about the modern era difference in INTs and then say you'd take a QB with 2400 yards, 15 TD and 10 picks. That guy doesn't exist, and he wouldn't be a franchise QB if he did.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

A dozen = 12, but close enough, I guess. 2400 yards, 17 touchdowns, 12 picks. Either way, congratulations, the Bears probably just went something like 4-12 or 3-13.

 

Again, this is where we'll have to respectfully disagree. I've seen too many Lovie Smith teams win seven to nine games with ball control.

[bukie]

A dozen = 12, but close enough, I guess. 2400 yards, 17 touchdowns, 12 picks. Either way, congratulations, the Bears probably just went something like 4-12 or 3-13.

 

Again, this is where we'll have to respectfully disagree. I've seen too many Lovie Smith teams win seven to nine games with ball control.

Read: phenomenal defense and special teams.

[jersey cubs fan]

A dozen = 12, but close enough, I guess. 2400 yards, 17 touchdowns, 12 picks. Either way, congratulations, the Bears probably just went something like 4-12 or 3-13.

 

Again, this is where we'll have to respectfully disagree. I've seen too many Lovie Smith teams win seven to nine games with ball control.

 

So that's your goal? 7-9 wins.

 

Your entire argument is you want a QB to do just enough to get the same freaking results the Bears got with Cutler.

Edited March 5, 2010 by jersey cubs fan

[Magnetic Curses]

He set the franchise record for interceptions.

 

actually, no he didn't.

 

but favre is the single seasons packers' leader, peyton with the colts (unitas is second and third), tarkenton with the vikings, sonny jurgensen with the eagles, stabler with oakland. do want a list of great quarterbacks who have thrown 26 ints or more in a single season?

 

In the modern era, in their age 26 season? Sure.

 

lol

 

during a full moon, too.

[soapy]

Peyton and Favre don't play in the "modern era?" And why is age 26 so ciritcla to the equation?

 

Because I want Cutler to be a lot better than Favre, and Manning threw his his 28 picks as a rookie at age 22. He only broke 20 once after that.

 

Wait, are you saying you want Cutler's career to be better than Favre's career? If that's your expectation than I can see why you'd be disappointed, damn.

[Smack]

A dozen = 12, but close enough, I guess. 2400 yards, 17 touchdowns, 12 picks. Either way, congratulations, the Bears probably just went something like 4-12 or 3-13.

 

Again, this is where we'll have to respectfully disagree. I've seen too many Lovie Smith teams win seven to nine games with ball control.

 

Not with last year's defensive performance....

[David]

ZachZaidman

 

The courtship is on at Halas Hall. I'm told a couple of limousines are parked right outside the building. Important people are visiting. less than a minute ago via TweetDeck

[Butterscup1679666578]

Good news on Urlacher

 

Brian Urlacher (wrist) said he expects to be close to 100 percent when the Bears begin their offseason program on March 29.

 

Urlacher has been bench pressing for a month, an activity that undoubtedly puts heavy strain on that surgically repaired wrist. His health and effectiveness will be a key to the Bears' season, regardless if Julius Peppers is on board.

 

And Peppers has offers out there from Chicago, Philly and NE.

[soapy]

A dozen = 12, but close enough, I guess. 2400 yards, 17 touchdowns, 12 picks. Either way, congratulations, the Bears probably just went something like 4-12 or 3-13.

 

Again, this is where we'll have to respectfully disagree. I've seen too many Lovie Smith teams win seven to nine games with ball control.

 

So that's your goal? 7-9 wins.

 

Your entire argument is you want a QB to do just enough to get the same freaking results the Bears got with Cutler.

 

And as mentioned, those teams had a far superior defense to the one the Bears currently employ.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

A dozen = 12, but close enough, I guess. 2400 yards, 17 touchdowns, 12 picks. Either way, congratulations, the Bears probably just went something like 4-12 or 3-13.

 

Again, this is where we'll have to respectfully disagree. I've seen too many Lovie Smith teams win seven to nine games with ball control.

Read: phenomenal defense and special teams.

 

Funny how much better a defense looks when the other team isn't given the ball in great field position 26 times through picks.

[Sammy Sofa]

Peyton and Favre don't play in the "modern era?" And why is age 26 so ciritcla to the equation?

 

Because I want Cutler to be a lot better than Favre, and Manning threw his his 28 picks as a rookie at age 22. He only broke 20 once after that.

 

You mean when he threw 23 at age 25? OK, gotcha, that's fine, but 3 more picks a year later is a disaster.

 

What the [expletive] are you talking about?

[Magnetic Curses]

but yeah, cutler set the bears record for interceptions in a single season, didn't he kyle?