Re: Bears Offseason Thread

[jersey cubs fan]

But it looks like Martz wants him in the slot now...

 

I like him there a lot as well. A slot receiver can get a lot of passes thrown to them, with all sorts of underneath stuff that can occasionally be turned into homeruns. That's Hester's greatest value.

[RedFlash]

As the season wore on, Cutler seemed to take Olsen away from himself, and for some reason Turner took Olsen away from Cutler on far too many red zone plays throughout the season. Olsen averaged 4 receptions per game over the first 11, including two 1 reception games early on. He averaged 5 receptions in the middle portion of the schedule. But he had just 3 receptions per game over the last 5, and that was propped up by one game against Detroit.

 

If Martz's offense is actually going to feature Olsen even less than he has been featured so far, in a career where he hasn't exactly lived up to the hype, then I'm not sure keeping him does Cutler or the offense any favors if the other option is getting a high draft pick.

 

To be honest, I don't think Martz has ever had a TE weapon like Olsen before, hence his reluntance to focus on TE. Then when you consider that not one WR on the Bears is considered a "lock" to put up the same numbers as last yr, means Martz will prolly have to use all options in the offense. Hester wants to be a punt return again. Devin A. look good the last two weeks, but is no guarantee. Earl Bennett and Johnny Knox had their moments but are far from reliable. So again with all the ??? the offense has, I think Martz will have to find a way to use Olsen.

[Banedon]

If the Bears are in the market for a pass-rushing defensive end, it appears that Julius Peppers will be available.

 

Peppers no longer wants a long-term contract with Carolina, saying the Panthers have ignored him this offseason. In an interview aired Tuesday morning on Charlotte radio station WFNZ-AM, the five-time Pro Bowl defensive end indicated he's irritated by the team's "silence."

 

"Last year, at the time, that was the option that I wanted most," Peppers said. "Now it's not."

[jersey cubs fan]

To be honest, I don't think Martz has ever had a TE weapon like Olsen before, hence his reluntance to focus on TE. Then when you consider that not one WR on the Bears is considered a "lock" to put up the same numbers as last yr, means Martz will prolly have to use all options in the offense. Hester wants to be a punt return again. Devin A. look good the last two weeks, but is no guarantee. Earl Bennett and Johnny Knox had their moments but are far from reliable. So again with all the ??? the offense has, I think Martz will have to find a way to use Olsen.

 

Maybe he will have to find a way to use him, and maybe Angelo would refuse to a deal a guy he spent a 1st rounder on for a 2nd round pick. But Martz has indicated he doesn't value the TE position, thinking it is primarily a blocking position, which Olsen does not do well. If that's his stance, I see no reason to try and force the issue and keeping him. Desmond Clark can catch balls, and if the younger guy is developing, then why not explore all options?

[SpongeWorthy]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

 

Hester is the highest ranked Bears WR at 47th. That's a gigantic problem. Basically any passing attack who you would hope the Bears emulate has two or even three guys rated higher than any Bears receiver.

 

If you drop back and pass enough, which the Bears did a lot, even crappy receivers are going to accumulate stats, especially with a talented QB. It's practically a mathematical certainty. Remember when McNabb was screwing around with garbage like Todd Pinkston, James Thrash, and Fredex? They put up some numbers too. But their passing attack got a lot better when they had good TO for a year and then picked up Jackson and Maclin. Same with Brady when he went from Deion Branch and Troy Brown to Moss and Welker.

[jersey cubs fan]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

 

Hester is the highest ranked Bears WR at 47th. That's a gigantic problem. Basically any passing attack who you would hope the Bears emulate has two or even three guys rated higher than any Bears receiver.

 

If you drop back and pass enough, which the Bears did a lot, even crappy receivers are going to accumulate stats, especially with a talented QB. It's practically a mathematical certainty. Remember when McNabb was screwing around with garbage like Todd Pinkston, James Thrash, and Fredex? They put up some numbers too. But their passing attack got a lot better when they had good TO for a year and then picked up Jackson and Maclin. Same with Brady when he went from Deion Branch and Troy Brown to Moss and Welker.

 

Footballoutsiders is not particularly good. Their rankings are extremely flawed.

 

Also, what the hell was Welker until he went to a team with Randy Freaking Moss and Tom Brady? He was nothing. The mediocrity of the Bears passing attack holds Hester back. He's not elite, but nobody is claiming he is. He's quite useful, however, and claiming otherwise is just ignorant.

[SpongeWorthy]

FO is certainly better than just looking at the counting stats gotten from the box score.

 

And I'm not saying Hester doesn't have value...but the fact that he is our best receiver is troubling and indication that the situation needs to be fixed one way or another. If he was a our #2 or a slot guy with good return skills then I'd be perfectly happy with him.

[rawaction]

Hester is worse than almost every other starting #1 WR in the NFL and worse than most #2s on good passing attacks.

 

He's very substantially worse than Harvin as well.

 

Being worse than most #1s is pointless, becuase he's not a number 1, and it doesn't even matter. For what you are saying to be true, he would have to be the 49th best WR in the game, and I don't see anyway that is possible. There are not 48 better receivers. He fits combortably in with most #2 capable receivers, and is easily in the 30-40 range of best WR, which is a valuable thing. He was 46th in yards this year, with 9 TE's on that list. He was tied for 42nd in receptions, with 11 TE and RB on that list as well. Plus, Hester missed games to injury and he played on a team with an average passing game, and no complementary playmaker to make his job easier.

 

If you can trade him for a 2nd round pick, go right ahead, but Devin Hester has handled the transition to WR well and is a perfectly acceptable option at the position.

 

Wonderful post. I have been telling people the same since the season ended.

[hawkeyecub]

He essentially did what Percy Harvin did this year, and Percy has more experience as a receiver and is in a much better situation for a receiver. Nobody just thinks Percy is average. Devin is already a perfectly acceptable number 2 reciever, which is highly valuable to any team that relies on the passing game.

 

Good comparison...other than TD's, their stats are pretty close, and that's with Hester having not played for 3 games late in the season.

 

I wonder why the perception out there is that he was pretty mediocre then. I know that's what my perception has been...

 

Maybe some of our expectations were too high.

 

Well Hester is 27, Percy is 21. Percy wasn't strictly a WR in high school or college either. Hester is at his best running go routes, now routes/bubble screens and slants. I think Harvin is more versatile and what really made him so impressive this year was freakish strength.

[jersey cubs fan]

FO is certainly better than just looking at the counting stats gotten from the box score.

 

And I'm not saying Hester doesn't have value...but the fact that he is our best receiver is troubling and indication that the situation needs to be fixed one way or another. If he was a our #2 or a slot guy with good return skills then I'd be perfectly happy with him.

 

Then the blame lies with the Bears and you.

 

He isn't a number 1, never should have been marketed as a #1 and should not be expected to be a #1 by anybody.

[Magnetic Curses]

If the Bears are in the market for a pass-rushing defensive end, it appears that Julius Peppers will be available.

 

Peppers no longer wants a long-term contract with Carolina, saying the Panthers have ignored him this offseason. In an interview aired Tuesday morning on Charlotte radio station WFNZ-AM, the five-time Pro Bowl defensive end indicated he's irritated by the team's "silence."

 

"Last year, at the time, that was the option that I wanted most," Peppers said. "Now it's not."

 

he's old and going to be expensive.

[SpongeWorthy]

I would trade any two receivers on the Bears for Percy Harvin and not think twice about it.

[Magnetic Curses]

He essentially did what Percy Harvin did this year, and Percy has more experience as a receiver and is in a much better situation for a receiver. Nobody just thinks Percy is average. Devin is already a perfectly acceptable number 2 reciever, which is highly valuable to any team that relies on the passing game.

 

Good comparison...other than TD's, their stats are pretty close, and that's with Hester having not played for 3 games late in the season.

 

I wonder why the perception out there is that he was pretty mediocre then. I know that's what my perception has been...

 

Maybe some of our expectations were too high.

 

Well Hester is 27, Percy is 21. Percy wasn't strictly a WR in high school or college either. Hester is at his best running go routes, now routes/bubble screens and slants. I think Harvin is more versatile and what really made him so impressive this year was freakish strength.

 

harvin is a gutless choking dog, just like all of the vikings.

[SpongeWorthy]

FO is certainly better than just looking at the counting stats gotten from the box score.

 

And I'm not saying Hester doesn't have value...but the fact that he is our best receiver is troubling and indication that the situation needs to be fixed one way or another. If he was a our #2 or a slot guy with good return skills then I'd be perfectly happy with him.

 

Then the blame lies with the Bears and you.

 

He isn't a number 1, never should have been marketed as a #1 and should not be expected to be a #1 by anybody.

 

Except he is the Chicago Bears #1.

 

It'd be like saying if the Cubs had Randy Wells as their #1 starter then it's probably safe to say their starting pitching sucks ass. It's not necessarily casting aspersions on Wells but it's a solid indicator.

[Magnetic Curses]

if knox learns to run the proper route, which i imagine he will do under martz or get benched, and aromashadu gets more passes thrown in his direction, the bears can live with their receivers. if we could snag one of the chargers' guys i would feel a lot better, though.

[rawaction]

Hester is worse than almost every other starting #1 WR in the NFL and worse than most #2s on good passing attacks.

 

He's very substantially worse than Harvin as well.

 

Hester has about same number of catches and same number of yards (though 3 fewer td's) in 3 fewer games played last season. They each had one 100+ yard game, and about the same number of 75+ yard games.

 

But it looks like Martz wants him in the slot now...

 

Mike Martz envisions Devin Hester as a dominant slot receiver, a shift that could mean he will be coming out of the Bears' starting lineup.

 

"Devin Hester in that role could just be stupid good, if that makes sense to you," Martz said. "What we can do with him inside, the matchups we can get with him on third corners, safeties and linebackers would be absolutely remarkable."

 

Martz compared him to Az Hakim.

 

Is Az Hakim a good comparison for Hester? Hakim's best year in the greatest show on turf was a 53 catch, 734 yard season in 2000. That's about Hester's average the last 2 years as a WR. Hakim had a few big plays once in a blue moon, but just a 13.3 yard per catch average. Hester's at 13.4. Hester's already a better WR than Hakim ever was.

[SpongeWorthy]

Hakim put up those numbers as the 4th cog in one of the best offenses in NFL history. Hester might be better but if he's putting up numbers like that and maybe doing damage in the return game as the 3rd or 4th guy for us I would be happy. That's assuming we've got a strong 1-3.

[rawaction]

I would trade any two receivers on the Bears for Percy Harvin and not think twice about it.

 

That's because you're crazy. No offense.

[SpongeWorthy]

No, it's because you think the Bears receivers are acceptably good. They're not. Maybe all we can do is hope they can be in the future but they're not at the moment.

 

If you called up the Vikings and offered Devin Hester and Johnny Knox (or Bennett or Devin A.) for Harvin they'd laugh in your face.

[davell]

I think that if you put Hester on the Vikings, with all of their other weapons, he could have done what Harvin did this past year. If you're asking me which one I'd rather have, I'd say Harvin, because of his age. But, i really don't think Harvin would have made much of a difference for the Bears this year either, if he had been on our team. And I would NOT trade Hester AND either Knox or Aromashadu for him honestly.

[RedFlash]

No, it's because you think the Bears receivers are acceptably good. They're not. Maybe all we can do is hope they can be in the future but they're not at the moment.

 

If you called up the Vikings and offered Devin Hester and Johnny Knox (or Bennett or Devin A.) for Harvin they'd laugh in your face.

 

60 catches 790 yards with 6 Tds.

57 catches 757 yards with 3 Tds.

45 catches 527 yards with 5 Tds.

 

Will you stop overrating Percy Harvin. I would offer a WR for Harvin, not because I am comfortable with the current WR, it is because Harvin is not an upgrade over what the Bears currently have. Now Sidney Rice on the other hand........Not to mention in addition to Rice, they have Petersen, Berrian, and Shiancoe as offensive weapons, so what you saw with Harvin this year, could very well be the peak of what he does for the Vikings. And you are telling us his worth more then 2 solid WRs? :no: I don't know man, I think you might be stretching Harvin's value. Not to mention the Bears have a couple of guys who can do on KR/PR that Harvin can do. Simply put.....Harvin is not worth as much as you think he is, Sponge. Again not because I am comfortable with the current players, oh no I am not, it is because you are overrating Harvin.

[SpongeWorthy]

Harvin was the #1 player in high school, one of the best players in college, and was effective as a #2 receiver, wildcat runner, and a returner. He's very, very good.

 

I admit I'm high on him but I think he's a perennial pro bowl caliber guy. He came out of a very un-pro style offense and was a big weapon his first year as a pro when many rookie WRs don't do much of anything. He does have a tendency to get hurt though. If he can stay healthy he'll be right there with Desean Jackson next year.

[RedFlash]

Harvin was the #1 player in high school, one of the best players in college, and was effective as a #2 receiver, wildcat runner, and a returner. He's very, very good.

 

I admit I'm high on him but I think he's a perennial pro bowl caliber guy. He came out of a very un-pro style offense and was a big weapon his first year as a pro when many rookie WRs don't do much of anything. He does have a tendency to get hurt though. If he can stay healthy he'll be right there with Desean Jackson next year.

 

I did not sat Harvin isn't a good player, I'm just saying his value isn't a point where you can say what you would or would not trade for him. As long as Favre is in Minnesota, Harvin is likely a 3rd/4th option in offense behind Peterson, Rice, and Pianscoe, which limits Harvin potential.

[SpongeWorthy]

Shiancoe is a very good red zone weapon but he won't get more touches than Harvin. Harvin gets touches in all phases of the game and I bet he'll run the ball more next year too.

 

I think he pretty much exceeded any reasonable expectations people had of him. He was pretty damn polished for the pro game coming out of that Florida offense. The reason I'll say that I would trade any two Bears receivers for him is because I don't think Bennett and Devin A. are guys that can't be replaced easily. They would be 4th and 5th receivers on the Vikings, at best. Knox is a talent but I would give him and Hester up for Harvin as well. He still needs a ton of work...right now he just runs by guys.

 

Harvin is a potential top 10-15 offensive weapon in the entire league, IMO and offers a ton of versatility. Hester has never been an effective receiver and return guy in the same season and Harvin did it his rookie year.

[hawkeyecub]

Harvin was the #1 player in high school, one of the best players in college, and was effective as a #2 receiver, wildcat runner, and a returner. He's very, very good.

 

I admit I'm high on him but I think he's a perennial pro bowl caliber guy. He came out of a very un-pro style offense and was a big weapon his first year as a pro when many rookie WRs don't do much of anything. He does have a tendency to get hurt though. If he can stay healthy he'll be right there with Desean Jackson next year.

 

I did not sat Harvin isn't a good player, I'm just saying his value isn't a point where you can say what you would or would not trade for him. As long as Favre is in Minnesota, Harvin is likely a 3rd/4th option in offense behind Peterson, Rice, and Pianscoe, which limits Harvin potential.

 

Percy was thrown to 91 times and had 15 carries despite missing basically two games with migraines. Shank was targeted 79 times.

 

As far as last year I'll make any bet you want that it wasn't the peak of his career with the Vikings. You name it. He was a 21 year old rookie WR who didn't play in a pro-style offense and wasn't even strictly a WR there. He still has a lot of untouched potential and will start to fade out Berrian in a few years.