Akinori Iwamura traded to the Pirates

[Jake]

the part that doesn't make sense is that the pirates are going to lose anyway, so why not lose while paying delwyn young less money to play bad defense.

 

We have some pride.

 

The reality is, Delwyn Young is not an everyday major league 2B. OK, this argument could be made about some other guys on the team too. But, allegedly, we have guys in the minors who realistically could make a push for those jobs this year. We have absolutely no one for the middle infield with more than a remote chance of being an everyday player this year.

 

Ronny Cedeno says hi.

 

1) The implication was about players in the minors.

2) Cedeno is NOT a lock to be the starting SS next year.

[sweetpeteman]

the part that doesn't make sense is that the pirates are going to lose anyway, so why not lose while paying delwyn young less money to play bad defense.

 

We have some pride.

 

The reality is, Delwyn Young is not an everyday major league 2B. OK, this argument could be made about some other guys on the team too. But, allegedly, we have guys in the minors who realistically could make a push for those jobs this year. We have absolutely no one for the middle infield with more than a remote chance of being an everyday player this year.

 

Ronny Cedeno says hi.

 

1) The implication was about players in the minors.

2) Cedeno is NOT a lock to be the starting SS next year.

 

3) The green text is sarcasm.

[Sever82]

Seriously, does anybody on this board run the Hot Stove Cubbies Blog? I mean MLBtraderumors has Iwamura quoted and also the Pirates GM posted as saying that both sides are interested in a long term deal. And then the Blogger on that cubbies website posted as if his sources are saying that Iwamura was traded to pirates and might be traded to the cubbies. I mean seriously, I know its a blog but dont post false statements or rumors that are based off your own ideas. I know this is me ranting but I just can't stand false rumors.

[TruffleShuffle]

the part that doesn't make sense is that the pirates are going to lose anyway, so why not lose while paying delwyn young less money to play bad defense.

 

We have some pride.

 

The reality is, Delwyn Young is not an everyday major league 2B. OK, this argument could be made about some other guys on the team too. But, allegedly, we have guys in the minors who realistically could make a push for those jobs this year. We have absolutely no one for the middle infield with more than a remote chance of being an everyday player this year.

 

yeah the problem with the pirates is that brandon moss, nyjer morgan and at least two of the five starting pitchers should not be in the positions they're in. i'm just saying, save the $4M, lose 3 more games with delwyn at 2B and roll the money into international free agency and the draft. it's not popular with the fans but it's the right move long term.

[SouthSideRyan]

Nyjer Morgan is in Washington. And there's something to be said to showing the fans you aren't actively trying to lose. I'm not saying they should do the Pirates of the 90s plan of wasting money on mediocre veterans in a drive for 75 wins, but they shouldn't go Detroit Tigers and win 43 games either.

[jersey cubs fan]

Nyjer Morgan is in Washington. And there's something to be said to showing the fans you aren't actively trying to lose. I'm not saying they should do the Pirates of the 90s plan of wasting money on mediocre veterans in a drive for 75 wins, but they shouldn't go Detroit Tigers and win 43 games either.

 

Detroit turned around and became a WS contender, Pittsburgh stayed Pittsburgh. There's nothing to be said for trying to fool your fans into thinking you're trying by striving for mediocrity.

[SouthSideRyan]

Nyjer Morgan is in Washington. And there's something to be said to showing the fans you aren't actively trying to lose. I'm not saying they should do the Pirates of the 90s plan of wasting money on mediocre veterans in a drive for 75 wins, but they shouldn't go Detroit Tigers and win 43 games either.

 

Detroit turned around and became a WS contender, Pittsburgh stayed Pittsburgh. There's nothing to be said for trying to fool your fans into thinking you're trying by striving for mediocrity.

 

You think it was the 43 win season that sent Detroit to the top?

[jersey cubs fan]

Nyjer Morgan is in Washington. And there's something to be said to showing the fans you aren't actively trying to lose. I'm not saying they should do the Pirates of the 90s plan of wasting money on mediocre veterans in a drive for 75 wins, but they shouldn't go Detroit Tigers and win 43 games either.

 

Detroit turned around and became a WS contender, Pittsburgh stayed Pittsburgh. There's nothing to be said for trying to fool your fans into thinking you're trying by striving for mediocrity.

 

You think it was the 43 win season that sent Detroit to the top?

 

Didn't say that. But your example was weak. Nobody cares about mediocrity. Fans aren't going to salute a less crappy team. Losing is losing.

[SouthSideRyan]

Nyjer Morgan is in Washington. And there's something to be said to showing the fans you aren't actively trying to lose. I'm not saying they should do the Pirates of the 90s plan of wasting money on mediocre veterans in a drive for 75 wins, but they shouldn't go Detroit Tigers and win 43 games either.

 

Detroit turned around and became a WS contender, Pittsburgh stayed Pittsburgh. There's nothing to be said for trying to fool your fans into thinking you're trying by striving for mediocrity.

 

You think it was the 43 win season that sent Detroit to the top?

 

Didn't say that. But your example was weak. Nobody cares about mediocrity. Fans aren't going to salute a less crappy team. Losing is losing.

 

Fans don't want to watch an embarrassment and players don't want to play for one. Trying to actually win a game or 2 has long-term value. The Tigers went to the world series because they backed up a dump truck full of money to some guys. The Pirates are still owned by a tightwad, which means they have to win it on intelligence, which means it could take awhile, which means you'd like to have more than 3 fans left by that point. You want to have something to point to to give them some hope.

 

Iwamura isn't going to turn the franchise around, but neither is Delwyn Young. I think you should toss the fans a bone every now and then. In a vaccuum, yes if you don't have a realistic chance at going to the playoffs then don't spend any money on anyone unless they'll be on your next good team. Well is it even likely that Zach Duke will be on the Pirates next playoff team? It's not like this is the Pirates of old spending nothing on the draft to save money while they pissed money away on Pat Meares and Ed Sprague. They are spending money in the draft, they are spending money overseas, they are building a system, it's not going to ruin that plan by paying 1 guy on the roster more than the league minimum.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

There's no problem in getting a guy who's going to be a 1-2 win guy for at or below market value, it's not like Iwamura is hindering the progression of some long term asset anyway. You can't funnel every penny into the draft and scouting because then you never sell any tickets and have less revenue than if you had spent it on somebody. Plus Iwamura stands a decent chance of fetching them a draft pick after the season anyways, or maybe a better return at the deadline if he's having a strong season.

[TruffleShuffle]

There's no problem in getting a guy who's going to be a 1-2 win guy for at or below market value, it's not like Iwamura is hindering the progression of some long term asset anyway. You can't funnel every penny into the draft and scouting because then you never sell any tickets and have less revenue than if you had spent it on somebody. Plus Iwamura stands a decent chance of fetching them a draft pick after the season anyways, or maybe a better return at the deadline if he's having a strong season.

 

i made this point last page and then completely forgot about it.

 

you're right, it's fine as long as iwamura plays average or better this year. if he plays awful then it's a bad move, but you can't really predict that.

[Jake]

There's no problem in getting a guy who's going to be a 1-2 win guy for at or below market value, it's not like Iwamura is hindering the progression of some long term asset anyway. You can't funnel every penny into the draft and scouting because then you never sell any tickets and have less revenue than if you had spent it on somebody. Plus Iwamura stands a decent chance of fetching them a draft pick after the season anyways, or maybe a better return at the deadline if he's having a strong season.

 

i made this point last page and then completely forgot about it.

 

you're right, it's fine as long as iwamura plays average or better this year. if he plays awful then it's a bad move, but you can't really predict that.

 

Just to expand on this point a bit....

 

It's not just Iwamura over DY at 2b, but DY over a guy who shouldn't be in the majors on the bench. We'll gain another win or two w/ DY on the bench as he hit .316 as a pinch hitter. Even f he drops down to .280, That's still more than we got last year, and one or two game winning hits we didn't have last year.

 

On another note, the team really is under different ownership and management for the past two-three years.

 

The big difference, of course, is Neal Huntington Vs. Dave Littlefield. DL has a strategy of bringing in players close to the majors. He folowed this in his draft strategy as well as his trade strategy. The problem is the strategy was flawed in that there wasn't enough diversity of experience within the system, and, the strategy was poorly executed (See Danny Moskos vs. Matt Weiters.)

 

This left Huntington with a barron minor league system. I think there were maybe four guys who could make it to the majors in the whole system. One is Brian Bixler. 'Nuff said. (Cutch, Walker, Lincoln are the others. There are a couple of A middle infielders left over that could make an impact too.)

 

NH, on the other hand, looks at the system as a whole. Both in terms of who was drafted and who was traded for. The guys he traded for are all over the system. Some years away from the majors. DL would never make that trade.

 

The long and short is, we're now able to trade a guy like Jesse Chavez because we have both Joel Hanrahan and Even Meek, who are basically three of the same type of pitcher.

 

I think the most telling thing is the Lynchburgh Single A title. That was won with mostly prospects, not guys who will never make it and should be playing a level higher anyway, as was done under DL.

 

Plus the money - Now that Nutting is running the team, more money is being spent. Much more on the draft ($7mil this year, $9mil last year.) More in the later rounds - NH is drafting HS guys who many expect to go to school and is over paying them. Most are NOT going to make it, but if enough do, it's worth the money. NH is spending money in Latin America - DL ignored this.

 

Still, Major League payroll is low, and Nutting has said that when the team is ready to compete, he'll write the check. I'll believe this when I see it.

 

So, while we lost more games this past year than three years ago, I'm a LOT more optimistic today.

 

Is Iwamura the guy who's going to be a difference maker? No. But, he does make the team better, we can afford him, and he's not being overpaid.

 

These are cautiously optimistic times in Pittsburgh. Which is more than I could say at any point since I've been posting here.

[Guest]

Pittsburgh has been running under the same theme, even back to the days of Littlefield. Pick up some mediocre vets in the offseason and then trade them at the deadline. The difference is Huntington seems to get better value in his returns.

 

Pittsburgh does seem to be putting together a strong group of prospects. Maybe in the next year or two, these guys could develop enough to where they can mix and match their way to at least be competitive within their division.