Soriano SUCKS

[Fanatic3332000]

Still sucks, all last year and all this year he has sucked, and it is not just his lack of power but he is a defensive liability, has no baseball IQ, tries to pull everything, occassionally has a hit to right but I thosee are balls too far outside to pull.

If he has tried to catch that ball at the fence he could have saved runs, he got to the fence but was off to the side, cut him, eat the salery and at least put someone out there that looks as though he cares, and if Lou won't bench him, find someone wwho will, this is just getting old.

I know I will be pounded foe my remarks, but why?

 

Hate to tell you, but he didn't suck last year.

 

 

he actually did suck last year minus 4 weeks of hot hitting.

[Sammy Sofa]

Oh wait what? Did he not regress since he became a cub? He hasn't come close to his numbers that he had as a National.

 

The reason for that the last two years were the injuries that limited his playing time. I'm not saying he would have matched or exceeded what were obviously career year numbers, but he would have been damn close if he had played the same number of games. In both 2007 and 2008 the value of his playing significantly outweighed what he was paid, as has been shown here numerous times.

 

You're not going to find anyone here that "likes" his contract, but to talk like 2007 and 2008 weren't worth what he was paid and that he fell off the map compared to Washington simply isn't being realistic at all. You drop "regression" like it was unthinkable that he wouldn't repeat his 2006 numbers and it was of course since he came from the Cubs he sucked. He didn't suck the last 2 years. He was one of the very best players on the team and only technically regressed from what was clearly a career year.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Sammy Sofa

[inari]

Still sucks, all last year and all this year he has sucked, and it is not just his lack of power but he is a defensive liability, has no baseball IQ, tries to pull everything, occassionally has a hit to right but I thosee are balls too far outside to pull.

If he has tried to catch that ball at the fence he could have saved runs, he got to the fence but was off to the side, cut him, eat the salery and at least put someone out there that looks as though he cares, and if Lou won't bench him, find someone wwho will, this is just getting old.

I know I will be pounded foe my remarks, but why?

 

Hate to tell you, but he didn't suck last year.

 

 

he actually did suck last year minus 4 weeks of hot hitting.

 

Ok except he didn't.

[Sammy Sofa]

Still sucks, all last year and all this year he has sucked, and it is not just his lack of power but he is a defensive liability, has no baseball IQ, tries to pull everything, occassionally has a hit to right but I thosee are balls too far outside to pull.

If he has tried to catch that ball at the fence he could have saved runs, he got to the fence but was off to the side, cut him, eat the salery and at least put someone out there that looks as though he cares, and if Lou won't bench him, find someone wwho will, this is just getting old.

I know I will be pounded foe my remarks, but why?

 

Hate to tell you, but he didn't suck last year.

 

 

he actually did suck last year minus 4 weeks of hot hitting.

 

Ridiculous.

 

If you think he sucked in 2008 he must have sucked in 2007, too.

[Fanatic3332000]

Still sucks, all last year and all this year he has sucked, and it is not just his lack of power but he is a defensive liability, has no baseball IQ, tries to pull everything, occassionally has a hit to right but I thosee are balls too far outside to pull.

If he has tried to catch that ball at the fence he could have saved runs, he got to the fence but was off to the side, cut him, eat the salery and at least put someone out there that looks as though he cares, and if Lou won't bench him, find someone wwho will, this is just getting old.

I know I will be pounded foe my remarks, but why?

 

Hate to tell you, but he didn't suck last year.

 

 

he actually did suck last year minus 4 weeks of hot hitting.

 

Ridiculous.

 

 

what did he bat in the playoffs? 1-14....He really hits when it matters. Most of his home runs came when we were up or down by a bunch of runs.

[imb]

people put that idiotic spin on every slugger that hits a slump. it was sandberg, then sosa, now soriano

[bukie]

Honestly, I understand why Hendry gave Soriano the contract he did. His job was in jeopardy, and he had to do something drastic after 2006 to change perceptions. Soriano wanted a long term deal and nothing else, and Hendry made darn well sure he got him.

[Sammy Sofa]

He really hits when it matters. Most of his home runs came when we were up or down by a bunch of runs.

 

So back it up.

 

PS-Aramis has been terrible in the playoffs, too. If you're going to condemn one player's entire season because of their playoff performance, why not another?

[CubColtPacer]

Still sucks, all last year and all this year he has sucked, and it is not just his lack of power but he is a defensive liability, has no baseball IQ, tries to pull everything, occassionally has a hit to right but I thosee are balls too far outside to pull.

If he has tried to catch that ball at the fence he could have saved runs, he got to the fence but was off to the side, cut him, eat the salery and at least put someone out there that looks as though he cares, and if Lou won't bench him, find someone wwho will, this is just getting old.

I know I will be pounded foe my remarks, but why?

 

Hate to tell you, but he didn't suck last year.

 

 

he actually did suck last year minus 4 weeks of hot hitting.

 

Ridiculous.

 

 

what did he bat in the playoffs? 1-14....He really hits when it matters. Most of his home runs came when we were up or down by a bunch of runs.

 

Let's see if the home run allegation is true. Here are Soriano's home runs from last year. The score reflected is at the time right before Soriano hit the home run, and I also have noted if the Cubs took the lead or tied the game with his home run:

 

April 6th-tied 1-1 (took lead)

April 11th-down 3-2 (tied game)

May 2nd-down 3-1 (tied game)

May 12th-down 2-1 (took lead)

May 13th-tied 0-0 (took lead)

May 14th-tied 0-0 (took lead)

May 16th-tied 0-0 (took lead)

May 16th-up 3-0

May 17th-up 3-2

May 17th-down 5-4 (tied game)

May 25th-down 2-1 (took lead)

May 31st-down 2-1 (took lead)

June 1st-up 4-3

June 3rd-up 6-3

June 7th-up 1-0

July 27th-down 5-2 (tied game)

July 28th-up 1-0

July 31st-up 5-1

August 3rd-up 7-5

August 5th-tied 7-7 (took lead)

August 6th-up 6-4

August 14th-up 5-2

August 29th-tied 2-2 (took lead)

September 2nd-tied 0-0 (took lead)

September 6th-tied 0-0 (took lead)

September 6th-up 2-1

September 6th-up 3-1

September 14th-tied 0-0 (took lead)

September 16th-up 3-2

 

 

So 29 home runs. The largest deficit the Cubs ever had was 3 runs when Soriano hit 1 (and that home run was a 3 run shot to tie the game). They only had a 4 run lead once when he hit a home run.

 

He took the lead with 12 of his 28 home runs.

He tied the game up 4 times.

 

The team had a:

 

3 run deficit- 1 time

2 run deficit- 1 time

1 run deficit- 5 times

tied- 9 times

1 run lead- 6 times

2 run lead- 3 times

3 run lead- 3 times

4 run lead- 1 time

 

There are a lot of criticisms that can be made of Soriano as a player, but hitting home runs only at inopportune times is not one of them. In fact, the case could be argued better the other way. The Cubs had quite a few potential blowout games to hit home runs in last year, and for Soriano to hit exactly 1 home run with a run differential of more than 3 runs at the time is pretty amazing. (and that 4 run lead was finishing off the sweep of Milwaukee, probably the biggest series of the regular season)

[TruffleShuffle]

Honestly, I understand why Hendry gave Soriano the contract he did. His job was in jeopardy, and he had to do something drastic after 2006 to change perceptions. Soriano wanted a long term deal and nothing else, and Hendry made darn well sure he got him.

 

yeah i wasn't thrilled about the deal either, but the cubs were so friggin bad in 2006 and they had a lot of money to spend, so they had to do something.

 

i would've said that signing beltran would've been much better, but his knee issues this year are troubling and could be a long-term concern.

[Sammy Sofa]

Let's see if the home run allegation is true. Here are Soriano's home runs from last year. The score reflected is at the time right before Soriano hit the home run, and I also have noted if the Cubs took the lead or tied the game with his home run:

 

April 6th-tied 1-1 (took lead)

April 11th-down 3-2 (tied game)

May 2nd-down 3-1 (tied game)

May 12th-down 2-1 (took lead)

May 13th-tied 0-0 (took lead)

May 14th-tied 0-0 (took lead)

May 16th-tied 0-0 (took lead)

May 16th-up 3-0

May 17th-up 3-2

May 17th-down 5-4 (tied game)

May 25th-down 2-1 (took lead)

May 31st-down 2-1 (took lead)

June 1st-up 4-3

June 3rd-up 6-3

June 7th-up 1-0

July 27th-down 5-2 (tied game)

July 28th-up 1-0

July 31st-up 5-1

August 3rd-up 7-5

August 5th-tied 7-7 (took lead)

August 6th-up 6-4

August 14th-up 5-2

August 29th-tied 2-2 (took lead)

September 2nd-tied 0-0 (took lead)

September 6th-tied 0-0 (took lead)

September 6th-up 2-1

September 6th-up 3-1

September 14th-tied 0-0 (took lead)

September 16th-up 3-2

 

 

So 29 home runs. The largest deficit the Cubs ever had was 3 runs when Soriano hit 1 (and that home run was a 3 run shot to tie the game). They only had a 4 run lead once when he hit a home run.

 

He took the lead with 12 of his 28 home runs.

He tied the game up 4 times.

 

The team had a:

 

3 run deficit- 1 time

2 run deficit- 1 time

1 run deficit- 5 times

tied- 9 times

1 run lead- 6 times

2 run lead- 3 times

3 run lead- 3 times

4 run lead- 1 time

 

There are a lot of criticisms that can be made of Soriano as a player, but hitting home runs only at inopportune times is not one of them. In fact, the case could be argued better the other way. The Cubs had quite a few potential blowout games to hit home runs in last year, and for Soriano to hit exactly 1 home run with a run differential of more than 3 runs at the time is pretty amazing. (and that 4 run lead was finishing off the sweep of Milwaukee, probably the biggest series of the regular season)

 

DAMN YOU TO HELL, REALITY.

[rocket]

no one's interested in your facts, ccp. soriano sucks, and his home runs are never important.

[Hawk4Hall]

Soriano's contract sucks and he's not consistent.

[cheapseats]

 

 

what did he bat in the playoffs? 1-14....He really hits when it matters. Most of his home runs came when we were up or down by a bunch of runs.

 

That's the classic anti-Dunn argument that Reds fans used to make and it wasn't true of Dunn, either.

[cheapseats]

he's not consistent.

 

Somewhere Joe Morgan is smiling.

[17 Seconds]

Still sucks, all last year

 

that's just stupid

[17 Seconds]

No surprise that Soriano started to regress the moment he put on a Cubs hat. It's never a good idea to give a 31 year old an 8 year contract. Hendry is such a terrible GM.

 

soriano didn't regress until this season

[DivineBovine]

Honestly, I understand why Hendry gave Soriano the contract he did. His job was in jeopardy, and he had to do something drastic after 2006 to change perceptions. Soriano wanted a long term deal and nothing else, and Hendry made darn well sure he got him.

 

 

Soriano was signed around the time the Tribune put the Cubs up for sale. After all the years of being cheap bastards, the Trib decided to put out for a big contract that they knew they wouldn't have to pay out in its entirety and would maybe give the team more credibity in the eyes of buyers. After all, what type of team is more valuable, a mid-market team or a large-market team? That's how I've always viewed the Soriano signing. He was the big free agent at the opportune time for the Tribune Company.

 

I also wouldn't completely blame Hendry, because I think that he would've chased any number of big money free agents at that particular time. It just sucks for us that the big free agent that year happened to be Soriano and not a player that could really play.

[17 Seconds]

No surprise that Soriano started to regress the moment he put on a Cubs hat.

 

Yeah, he was [expletive] horrible in 2007 and 2008.

 

Oh, wait.

Oh wait what? Did he not regress since he became a cub? He hasn't come close to his numbers that he had as a National. He's had leg injuries that sapped his speed. He was a "supposed" 40/40 guy he hasn't sniffed that here. I don't like him as a player and he's overpaid, the Cubs will be affected by his contract in years to come. Look at his numbers now and imagine how bad he will be 2 years from now and on.

 

soriano's stolen base numbers HURT his team in 2006.

 

and no, his offensive numbers didn't decline in 07 and 08. they were actually 2 of the better seasons in his career, rate wise

[SouthSideRyan]

He really hits when it matters. Most of his home runs came when we were up or down by a bunch of runs.

 

So back it up.

 

PS-Aramis has been terrible in the playoffs, too. If you're going to condemn one player's entire season because of their playoff performance, why not another?

 

Aramis isn't white either, I don't understand what the issue is.

[SouthSideRyan]

I've given up a long time ago on poring over game logs, and putting actual time into proving these people wrong. They have no interest in knowing the actual truth, they spit out the idiocy that they've already convinced themselves of and aren't going to change their mind no matter what happens.

[UMFan83]

I don't know why people think Soriano is a disapointment. This year year he's been below average but this is exactly the type of play you should have expected when we signed him.

 

First of all, Washington in 2006 was a career year. His HR, OBP, SLG, BB were all career highs. 2006 was the only year in his career where he put up a .900 OPS or better. We weren't getting a elite superstar when we signed him, we were getting a good/very good player with glaring deficiencies. Since then he's put up an .897 OPS in 07, and a .876 OPS in 2008, great but not superstar numbers. This year has kinda been a disappointment, but you also have to remember that he's going on 34 years old. People who grew up i the mid to late 90s don't realize this but you can expect severe performance regression anywhere from 33-37 years old (just making that number up I don't know the exact stats). People don't stay productive until their 40's anymore, except for extremely rare exceptions. His legs are already gone, again that should have been expected, anyoe who liked the Soriano signing because of his speed/power combo was fooling theirselves. They say speed is the first thing to go. Well that ship has sailed.

 

Oh and as for the lazy defense, the staring at singles off the wall...guess what? He's been doing that his whole career. Nothing has changed...Soriano has been the exact player that anyone with half a brain would have expected when we signed him in 2006. Go back to the Soriano signing thread in Transactions, see how many people were less than thrilled immediately after the deal was signed. A lot of people had serious reservations about giving Soriano 8 freaking years, and they were right.

[Sammy Sofa]

Go back to the Soriano signing thread in Transactions, see how many people were less than thrilled immediately after the deal was signed. A lot of people had serious reservations about giving Soriano 8 freaking years, and they were right.

 

This is the kind of stuff that's redundant: of course everyone here at least had reservations ovet the deal. Nobody was happy he got 8 years at his age for that kind of money. The arguments are against the stupid overractions when people act like he's useless or horrible or, like the thread says, "sucks." Does that mean he doesn't have his flaws and he's not frustrating? Of course not...but nobody who wasn't thrilled over his contract was any kind of savant that has been "proved" right. NOBODY liked that deal.

[UMFan83]

As I was mentioning in the previous post, look at some of these quotes on the first page or two of the Soriano signing thread from people just hearing about the signing:

 

Here is the thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36777

 

8 years!!!!!

 

dear god.

 

That is horrendous. Hendry is ensuring that if he gets fired his fingerprints will be on the team for a long time.

 

NO WAY NO NO NO!!!!! 8 YEARS????

 

Nearly 17 million for 8 years to someone who has put up a .340 OBP once in his career. Hopefully this is like Rosenthal's "Ramirez to test Free Agency" scoop.

 

What the crap...he's gonna be 38 putting up terrible numbers making 17 milllion.

 

Terrible signing

 

I think I'm going to be sick...

 

38 year old soriano

 

.268/.302/.430/.732

 

Thats my prediction for his numbers when he's 38. And making 17 million

 

8 years !?!?...............geez.....8 years ?

 

That does not compute.

 

And that was only page 1. I guess the biggest complaint was about the length of the deal, and rightfully so. But a lot had to do with the fact that no one perceived Soriano has an elite player.

[UMFan83]

Go back to the Soriano signing thread in Transactions, see how many people were less than thrilled immediately after the deal was signed. A lot of people had serious reservations about giving Soriano 8 freaking years, and they were right.

 

This is the kind of stuff that's redundant: of course everyone here at least had reservations ovet the deal. Nobody was happy he got 8 years at his age for that kind of money. The arguments are against the stupid overractions when people act like he's useless or horrible or, like the thread says, "sucks." Does that mean he doesn't have his flaws and he's not frustrating? Of course not...but nobody who wasn't thrilled over his contract was any kind of savant that has been "proved" right. NOBODY liked that deal.

I think people would have been able to live with an 8 year deal if he was a legit superstar, instead of mearly a good player. But when a large chunk of his value was due to his speed, and his power was offset by his mediocre OBP, and he had no real position to play those factors made Soriano's signing just awful off the bat. Again, if it was 31 year old Pujols, ARod, M. Ramirez, etc etc it's a different story because if it takes that to get an elite player here so be it.