Build the 2010 Cubs

[muntjack]

We could see Hendry get creative if the ownership situation is still in flux and they can't add payroll.

 

Could we see them try to re-convert Guzman into a starter?

 

Will Cashner be given more than a cursory look in ST?

 

Are they already planning to let Harden walk and thats why they acquired Gorz?

 

Will they finally commit to Marshall as a starter?

 

What do you guys think we could get for a package revolving around Z? Lilly?

 

Would Philly be willing to trade Utley for Z + ?

 

What about NYY and Cano?

[TruffleShuffle]

Could we see them try to re-convert Guzman into a starter?

 

no, that would be an awful idea. guzman has had injury problems throughout his minor league career. you've finally found something that keeps him relatively healthy; be happy you've got that.

 

Will Cashner be given more than a cursory look in ST?

 

one would think so. he'll have spent half a season at AA; that's enough to be a serious contender for a spot in the rotation if he turns enough heads. i'd expect that he'd be returned to iowa though.

 

Are they already planning to let Harden walk and thats why they acquired Gorz?

 

i think they acquired gorz because they needed another pitcher back in the deal. he's a decent option for the #5 starter, though he'd have to prove himself. one would assume they're going to let harden walk simply because of the payroll crunch they're dealing with next year, although harden has hurt his value in free agency by being pretty average this year.

 

Will they finally commit to Marshall as a starter?

 

unlikely, if for no other reason than this season was the perfect time to commit to him as a starter and they still won't do it.

 

Would Philly be willing to trade Utley for Z + ?

 

no way. utley is one of the top five players in the game, a very good hitter and outstanding fielder, generally stays healthy, is a great value for $15M a year from 2010-13, and they don't have a replacement for him. plus now they have cliff lee and cole hamels fronting the rotation; they really do not need someone like zambrano. i really have to try hard to think of a reasonable deal involving those guys - maybe utley for zambrano, vitters, cashner, angel guzman and starlin castro? still doubt the phillies do it.

 

What about NYY and Cano?

 

now this might be possible, though the yankees already have three good frontline pitchers (sabathia, burnett, chamberlain) and no reasonable replacement for cano. plus it really isn't the yankees' m.o. to trade established good players to bring back other good players - generally if they want a frontline starter, they'll just go out and sign him in free agency or, failing that, trade prospects for him.

[toonsterwu]

We could see Hendry get creative if the ownership situation is still in flux and they can't add payroll.

 

Could we see them try to re-convert Guzman into a starter?

 

Will Cashner be given more than a cursory look in ST?

 

Are they already planning to let Harden walk and thats why they acquired Gorz?

 

Will they finally commit to Marshall as a starter?

 

What do you guys think we could get for a package revolving around Z? Lilly?

 

Would Philly be willing to trade Utley for Z + ?

 

What about NYY and Cano?

 

a) Can't see Guzman being converted. We still have some starting depth, at least, guys that profile for the end of the rotation. The pen is an issue, and add in Guzman's own health history.

 

b) I could see Cashner get a long look. Actually, I could still see Cashner follow a Jon Papelbon like career (worked as a starter in the minors, called up to fill a role in the pen and eventually emerging as the closer).

 

c) I think they acquired Gorzelanny as much for depth for this year as any long term reason.

 

d) I think Marshall may get a shot at the 5th job, assuming Harden moves on.

 

e) Both Lilly and Z could probably get solid returns if put on the market, but I'm not inclined to move either guy personally. Btw the 2, I think you shop Lilly if new ownership orders a budget slashing and see what you can get.

 

f) Don't think the Phillies would ponder Z and more for Utley. Chase is a piece of the team's core, and their system is fairly strong.

 

g) I'm not so sure the Yankees ponder Cano for Z either. They've spent on Sabathia/Burnett, and Chamberlain/Hughes will get their shots. Pettite could come back, and Wang will finally be healthy after some bad advice from the Yankees this past offseason. While we've seen this year how pitching depth can disappear real quick (both Yankees and the Red Sox), when you factor in their options along with Hal Steinbrenner being in charge and the Yankees being a bit more prudent financially, and I don't see that happening. If they spend, I think it's for an OF bat.

[twothousandfive]

In all seriousness, they need to make improvements this off season.

 

I'd say that's been Hendry's number one mistake. He heads into the off-season and believes he has to fix X, and goes full-steam to fix it. RF/LH was an example. He decided it should be Bradley (defensible in that Bradley is as good a choice as Dunn, Abreu, Ibanez, indefensible in that he's a fielding liability and not so good LH), but lost a ton of flexibility pursuing that fix.

 

For 2010, they'll need Johnson or a replacement to platoon with Fukudome, and maybe another defensive-minded sub for the OF, but that's a guy they can put in Iowa (Hi, Sam). The for the infield, they can go with baker/Fontenot, with baker backing up at SS. Fox jumps in at all corners and we cross our fingers that he can catch. A rotation of Z, Lilly, Dempster, Wells, offer Harden arb and if he doesn't come back,http://www.northsidebaseball.com/Forum/posting.php?mode=reply&f=2&t=55387 give it to Gorzellany. Pen is Guzman, Marmol, Marshall, maybe Gorz, and offer arb to Grabow and Gregg. Get them back and the team is set.

 

Then see what happens. If a top-flight 2B can be had, get him. SS? Move Theriot over and demote Fontenot. Fox hitting the cover off the ball and dropping everything? Hello American League. Contender with an injured 1B calls? Lee goes and Fox takes his spot. Want a starter? Ok, here's Dempster, but you have to take Gregg, as well and give us a top AA prospect. The Cubs can then backfill with Stevens/Berg/Atkins. Hoffpauir helps provide some depth, and they've got potential arms in Iowa.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Hopefully this past offseason ahs taught Hendry that when you already have a great product, you dont need to make a splash in the offseason, rather go out and fill holes. I say give Baker the full time 2B job the rest of this year. If he does well, give it to him next year. If not, we'll need a 2B or SS. If we could get someone like Valverde or Rafael Soriano as a closer, that would be great as well as long as were not over paying. Also, re sign Harden for a year or 2 years with incentives, unless of course Halladay is attainable. Even if the 2010 opening day lineup looks like

 

1. Fukudome CF

2. Theriot SS

3. Ramirez 3B

4. Lee 1B

5. Bradley RF

6. Soriano LF

7. In shape Soto C

8. Baker 2B

SP Z

SP Lilly

SP Dempster

SP Wells

SP Gorzalanny

BP Marmol

BP Guzman

BP Grabow

BP Stevens

BP Gaub

BP Mashall

BP FA Closer

Bench Koyie Hill/Chris Robinson/Clevenger

Bench Fox

Bench Fuld

Bench Fontenot

Bench Blanco

 

Its still a good looking team if they remain healthy.

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

Buy low on Uggla/Hermida for whatever.

 

Maybe sign Tim Hudson or John Lackey.

 

I'm really low on ideas.

[iirishluck]

Any team that has A. Rameriez on their team is only one player away from having a legit chance at a world championship. So what if he is only healthy half the contract. If he is healthy a certain year , your team is all in. If he isn't (like this year) you're not. He has alot of the same effect that Carpenter has for the Cards. You're going to be really really good when he is healthy, and when he isn't it will be a struggle. I will take those chances every time.

 

If there is any possible way to get from under some of those contracts on offense ( even just 1) and the Cubs are able to land a quality closer ... the Cubs will be in the race next year with the Cards (even with Holliday nxt year) They most definitly will be the best team in Chicago. And will have a great shot at the World Series.

 

2nd place si still losing, and I'd rather finish dead last most of the time, and win it all a couple times, than to always be 2nd.

 

To reiterate. The Cubs are close. Just fire Hendry, and unload 1 overpriced contract. Or increase payroll another 20 million. All ya need is a closer.

[soapy]

To reiterate. The Cubs are close. Just fire Hendry, and unload 1 overpriced contract. Or increase payroll another 20 million. All ya need is a closer.

 

They need upgraded offense from at least one of (probably more) LF, 2B and/or C next year also. I really don't believe they are a closer away from contending for a WS.

[jersey cubs fan]

Any team that has A. Rameriez on their team is only one player away from having a legit chance at a world championship.

 

That's not true.

 

although harden has hurt his value in free agency by being pretty average this year.

 

He struggled for part of the season, but I think he's been above average. His value in free agency is hurt by his health issues much more than his performance. He's having the type of season that got Lilly 4/40 from the Cubs and much better than what Marquis did to get 3/21. I don't think he's been any worse than Burnett before he got his monster deal. It's all about the health and lack of expected innings, not really performance.

[Little Slide Rooter]

To reiterate. The Cubs are close. Just fire Hendry, and unload 1 overpriced contract. Or increase payroll another 20 million. All ya need is a closer.

 

They need upgraded offense from at least one of (probably more) LF, 2B and/or C next year also. I really don't believe they are a closer away from contending for a WS.

 

Thats not going to happen though. They cant do anything with Soriano. They're going to have to give Soto another year to see if this was just a sophmore slump, and hopefully, he'll play winter ball. As for 2B, I dont know whats really available, so we may as well stick with Baker and Fontenot. The only moves I anticipate are a closer and maybe re signing Harden.

[fromthestretch]

To reiterate. The Cubs are close. Just fire Hendry, and unload 1 overpriced contract. Or increase payroll another 20 million. All ya need is a closer.

 

A closer isn't going to help an aging offense. Soriano, Fukudome, Bradley, Ramirez, and Lee are all on the wrong side of 30. While it's certainly possible that Soriano and Bradley will provide better offense in 2010, it's no guarantee. It's also no guarantee that Lee will OPS .900 again. Which Fukudome are we going to see? How will Ramirez' shoulder hold up? Will Soto show up in shape and be able to stay healthy? None of this even begins to touch on the pitching.

 

Getting a closer isn't exactly a cure-all.

[fromthestretch]

To reiterate. The Cubs are close. Just fire Hendry, and unload 1 overpriced contract. Or increase payroll another 20 million. All ya need is a closer.

 

They need upgraded offense from at least one of (probably more) LF, 2B and/or C next year also. I really don't believe they are a closer away from contending for a WS.

 

Thats not going to happen though. They cant do anything with Soriano. They're going to have to give Soto another year to see if this was just a sophmore slump, and hopefully, he'll play winter ball. As for 2B, I dont know whats really available, so we may as well stick with Baker and Fontenot. The only moves I anticipate are a closer and maybe re signing Harden.

 

Is it really a good idea for a catcher who has been battling nagging injuries all season to be playing winter ball? Catchers tend to age pretty quickly. Let the guy spend the offseason getting healthy and back into shape.

[jersey cubs fan]

In all seriousness, they need to make improvements this off season.

 

I'd say that's been Hendry's number one mistake. He heads into the off-season and believes he has to fix X, and goes full-steam to fix it. RF/LH was an example. He decided it should be Bradley (defensible in that Bradley is as good a choice as Dunn, Abreu, Ibanez, indefensible in that he's a fielding liability and not so good LH), but lost a ton of flexibility pursuing that fix.

 

I'm a little confused about what you are saying here. Are you saying they don't need to make improvements and should just stay flexible and tinker? Or are you saying that instead of just looking to improve, Hendry goes on a myopic mission to acquire some unnecessariliy specific item that does not necessarily improve the team?

[iirishluck]

To reiterate. The Cubs are close. Just fire Hendry, and unload 1 overpriced contract. Or increase payroll another 20 million. All ya need is a closer.

 

They need upgraded offense from at least one of (probably more) LF, 2B and/or C next year also. I really don't believe they are a closer away from contending for a WS.

 

 

I don't think Soto's year last year was a fluke. Might be his best but but this year is an anomoly. The cubs offense wasn't bad, it just wasn't timing right at all.

 

I'm not a stat head especially for other teams, but I'd like to see the amount of LoB and blown saves.

 

I really believe the offense just ran into a bit of bad luck with too many of the heart of the order guys having down years.

 

4 or 5 #2 quality starters

One of the best players in the league with great defense at 3rd

Plenty of pop when healthy

>Insert closer<

 

Why wouldn't this team contend?

 

The cards in 2006 would not have won the world series had Isringhausen not gotten hurt,

 

We all can't be the Yankees with an all star $200 million payroll

[fromthestretch]

I really believe the offense just ran into a bit of bad luck with too many of the heart of the order guys having down years.

 

You're completely ignoring the age factor and injury histories of some of the key players on this team.

[iirishluck]

To reiterate. The Cubs are close. Just fire Hendry, and unload 1 overpriced contract. Or increase payroll another 20 million. All ya need is a closer.

 

They need upgraded offense from at least one of (probably more) LF, 2B and/or C next year also. I really don't believe they are a closer away from contending for a WS.

 

Thats not going to happen though. They cant do anything with Soriano. They're going to have to give Soto another year to see if this was just a sophmore slump, and hopefully, he'll play winter ball. As for 2B, I dont know whats really available, so we may as well stick with Baker and Fontenot. The only moves I anticipate are a closer and maybe re signing Harden.

 

 

You're probably right, but you never know. Unfortunately, the best chance is July 31st. But teams desperate might take someone, and you would have to entertain ANY of the larger contracts.

[iirishluck]

I really believe the offense just ran into a bit of bad luck with too many of the heart of the order guys having down years.

 

You're completely ignoring the age factor and injury histories of some of the key players on this team.

 

 

True.

 

But what ya going to do? But I believe their is some gas still left in a lot of those tanks. It all comes down to % chances anyways. Unless the new owner can absorb another 20 or so million.

[fromthestretch]

I really believe the offense just ran into a bit of bad luck with too many of the heart of the order guys having down years.

 

You're completely ignoring the age factor and injury histories of some of the key players on this team.

 

 

True.

 

But what ya going to do? But I believe their is some gas still left in a lot of those tanks. It all comes down to % chances anyways. Unless the new owner can absorb another 20 or so million.

 

Well, for one thing, you can have Fox work his tail off this offseason on defense. I'm not so much interested in him as a catcher, but if they can become confident enough in his defense to use him a little more in the corner outfield spots and to spell Ramirez from time to time at third, that can help a little in keeping Soriano, Bradley, and Ramirez healthy. Having a strong bench and giving some of these guys regular rest can help. Baker is another guy that could be used in a DeRosa type role, playing some 2B, 3B, and some corner outfield.

 

The Cubs are obviously handcuffed a bit by bloated contracts and no-trade clauses. The best place for improvement is probably the middle infield. However, that's probably the toughest area to find an available impact player.

[Tyrant]

Convince Soriano to retire.

[soapy]

To reiterate. The Cubs are close. Just fire Hendry, and unload 1 overpriced contract. Or increase payroll another 20 million. All ya need is a closer.

 

They need upgraded offense from at least one of (probably more) LF, 2B and/or C next year also. I really don't believe they are a closer away from contending for a WS.

 

Thats not going to happen though. They cant do anything with Soriano. They're going to have to give Soto another year to see if this was just a sophmore slump, and hopefully, he'll play winter ball. As for 2B, I dont know whats really available, so we may as well stick with Baker and Fontenot. The only moves I anticipate are a closer and maybe re signing Harden.

 

I didn't say it's going to happen. Soriano isn't going anywhere and neither is Soto (nor should he). I'm just saying they need more from those positions if they're going to have a strong enough offense to compete. Soto has a very good chance to improve on this year's numbers (and hopefully stays healthy). They could have a chance to upgrade at 2B (or SS while moving Theriot to 2B) in the off-season if they move some money.

[Little Slide Rooter]

To reiterate. The Cubs are close. Just fire Hendry, and unload 1 overpriced contract. Or increase payroll another 20 million. All ya need is a closer.

 

They need upgraded offense from at least one of (probably more) LF, 2B and/or C next year also. I really don't believe they are a closer away from contending for a WS.

 

Thats not going to happen though. They cant do anything with Soriano. They're going to have to give Soto another year to see if this was just a sophmore slump, and hopefully, he'll play winter ball. As for 2B, I dont know whats really available, so we may as well stick with Baker and Fontenot. The only moves I anticipate are a closer and maybe re signing Harden.

 

I didn't say it's going to happen. Soriano isn't going anywhere and neither is Soto (nor should he). I'm just saying they need more from those positions if they're going to have a strong enough offense to compete. Soto has a very good chance to improve on this year's numbers (and hopefully stays healthy). They could have a chance to upgrade at 2B (or SS while moving Theriot to 2B) in the off-season if they move some money.

 

I do agree, but this is a list of FA 2Bs and SS for 2010from MLBTR

Second basemen

Ronnie Belliard (35)

Jamey Carroll (36)

Alex Cora (34)

Craig Counsell (39)

Mark DeRosa (35)

David Eckstein (35)

Jerry Hairston Jr. (34)

Orlando Hudson (32)

Adam Kennedy (34)

Felipe Lopez (30)

Mark Loretta (38)

Pablo Ozuna (35)

Placido Polanco (34)

Juan Uribe (31)

 

Shortstops

Orlando Cabrera (35)

Alex Cora (34)

Craig Counsell (39)

Bobby Crosby (30)

Adam Everett (33)

Chris Gomez (39)

Khalil Greene (30)

Jerry Hairston Jr. (34)

John McDonald (35)

Marco Scutaro (34)

Miguel Tejada (36)

Omar Vizquel (43)

 

I might be interested in bringing back DeRosa on a 1 year deal, and Tejada intrigues me as well. Orlando Hudsons might be an option, but I dont know how expensive hed be plus the last thing we need is another guy with a long injury history, and who knows how much of an upgrade hed even be over Baker/Fontenot. Other than that, theres really nothing else on that list.

 

IN a semi related topic, I thought Eckstein was much older than 35 and Scuturo was much younger tha 34.

[soapy]

To reiterate. The Cubs are close. Just fire Hendry, and unload 1 overpriced contract. Or increase payroll another 20 million. All ya need is a closer.

 

They need upgraded offense from at least one of (probably more) LF, 2B and/or C next year also. I really don't believe they are a closer away from contending for a WS.

 

 

I don't think Soto's year last year was a fluke. Might be his best but but this year is an anomoly.

I can agree with that. But the point is they need more from C next year if they're offense is going to be good enough.

4 or 5 #2 quality starters

i'm not really sure what you're saying here.

One of the best players in the league with great defense at 3rd

Plenty of pop when healthy

i'm a huge Ramirez fan but he's not one of the best players in the league. also, he's established a bit of a track record of being injured at this point and I won't assume he'll be healthy more often as he ages.

 

>Insert closer<

 

Why wouldn't this team contend?

Their offense wouldn't be strong enough unless Soriano and/or Soto have huge bounceback seasons (one might be likely, one isn't). Not to mention that several of these guys (even the good ones) are aging and good bets to regress a bit (Bradley, Lee, Fukudome, Theriot) and we've we've already covered the injury concerns (Ramirez, Bradley, Soriano).

 

The cards in 2006 would not have won the world series had Isringhausen not gotten hurt,

 

We all can't be the Yankees with an all star $200 million payroll

 

I'm not sure what you're saying, except that maybe the Cards got lucky to find a injury replacement for Izzy (if you can even call it luck to have strong/succesfull young arms in your minor league system). Not sure whate you're trying to say about the Yankees. Nobody is advocating a $200 million payroll.

[jersey cubs fan]

4 or 5 #2 quality starters

i'm not really sure what you're saying here.

 

I'm guessing he thinks Zambrano, Dempster, Lilly, Wells and maybe Harden if he returns are all #2 quality starting pitchers.

 

One of the best players in the league with great defense at 3rd

Plenty of pop when healthy

i'm a huge Ramirez fan but he's not one of the best players in the league. also, he's established a bit of a track record of being injured at this point and I won't assume he'll be healthy more often as he ages.

 

Yeah, Ramirez may be the best Cub hitter, but he's not one of the best players in the league. The Cubs last year had success A) Because just about everything went right, and B) They were good just about everywhere, with no holes, but weren't really great anywhere. They don't have a stud. They need production from multiple spots. It helps because it means you don't run the risk of having your season end because of one injury, but it hurts because it leaves lots of opportunities for disappointing production to hurt the cause.

 

The Cubs got close to the top production from just about every position last year, and not much in the way of bottom of the barrel stuff that characterized 2005/2006/2007. In terms of OPS their worst position, in comparison to the league, was probably RF, but they at least had good OBP out there. This year they aren't getting top of the line production anywhere, and they are getting below or well below average production from several positions and lacking significantly in OBP at many of them. 2B, C and LF have just made far too many outs.

[shnsajax]

Find a taker for Fuku, sign Jason Bay and move Bradley to CF. Perfer to move Sori, but the odds are too small.

 

Or blackmail Michael Hill and force him to accept us throwing the farm to them for Hanley Ramirez.

[SouthSideRyan]

Fukudome's contract isn't really an issue.