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Theriot's improvement

JonJayCutler

By JonJayCutler,
in Chicago Cubs Talk

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JonJayCutler ACL Cubs

JonJayCutler

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Posted
Posted

Now I know there have been millions of Ryan Theriot threads on this board the last few years and I'm sure his performance has been discussed time and time again in each of them. But seriously, is it possible that this guy really has made a significant improvement to his game?

 

He has a .692 career minor league OPS, which is obviously pretty awful. But he has obviously come a long way since then. Most of you are serious fans who know this already, but this guy has been a different player, at least offensively, since the start of the 2008 season. His OBP increased by over 60 points, from .326 in 2007 to .387 in 2008. He finished with a .746 OPS in 2008 which is okay, but still a step up from his .672 OPS in 2007.

 

Now in 2009 he has the power surge. He is currently on pace for 18 homers when his previous season high was three. His OBP is lower than 2008 but is still at a respectable .355. Now he is coming off one of his best defensive series I've seen in awhile. So the question I have for all of you is...is this all a fluke or has this guy really made improvements? I remember reading threads here in 2007 and early 2008 expressing pure hatred for the guy. Nowadays there doesn't really seem to be a general consensus on him.

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17 Seconds Chicago Cubs

17 Seconds

Old-Timey Member
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he's developed into an adequate shortstop for sure (overall i mean), especially considering what he's making. i still don't like his defense, but i can live with it as long as he hits like he hit in 08 or 09

 

it would be tremendous if he could start going to right field again to pump his average back up while still yanking the ball out of the park from time to time

sporrer17 Draft Eligible

sporrer17

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

I think it's been noted many times that his career minor league numbers are dragged down significantly by his time spent as a switch hitter. In his last two minor league seasons (after giving up the switch hitting experiment) he had an OPS around .750 each year, as he did last year.

 

Obviously his jump in OPS this year is because of the power (can anyone believe he's 2nd on our team in HRs, and it's June?) but it looks like he's rounding out to be a solid .750 OPS type of guy at SS, with solid speed and okay defense. Not an all-star, but a very solid inexpensive piece to the puzzle. He's far from a concern right now, which is a lot more than we can say for most of the team.

Outshined_One Cooperstown

Outshined_One

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted

I can complain about his defense, but quite frankly, he's surpassed all of my expectations at the plate. The guy is a good hitter.

 

One thing worth noting about his minor league career was that the Cubs doggedly tried him as a switch hitter for a number of years in the minors. However, hitting from the left side simply never stuck with Theriot. I can't remember the exact year the Cubs finally gave up on it (I think 2005 before he started in AA?), but once they did, Theriot became markedly better at the plate. It seemed reasonable to think he could be a decent top of the order hitter without much power.

 

This season, he's on pace to have nearly as many HRs (12) as he's had in the minors and majors combined. That's pretty darn unusual.

17 Seconds Chicago Cubs

17 Seconds

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I can complain about his defense, but quite frankly, he's surpassed all of my expectations at the plate. The guy is a good hitter.

 

One thing worth noting about his minor league career was that the Cubs doggedly tried him as a switch hitter for a number of years in the minors. However, hitting from the left side simply never stuck with Theriot. I can't remember the exact year the Cubs finally gave up on it (I think 2005 before he started in AA?), but once they did, Theriot became markedly better at the plate. It seemed reasonable to think he could be a decent top of the order hitter without much power.

 

This season, he's on pace to have nearly as many HRs (12) as he's had in the minors and majors combined. That's pretty darn unusual.

 

12?

sporrer17 Draft Eligible

sporrer17

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

I think he's just being realistic and expecting a fall back to earth in Theriot's power numbers eventually.

 

He's technically on pace for like 18, but I think we all know he's likely to come up short of that number.

17 Seconds Chicago Cubs

17 Seconds

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I think he's just being realistic and expecting a fall back to earth in Theriot's power numbers eventually.

 

He's technically on pace for like 18, but I think we all know he's likely to come up short of that number.

 

on pace means on pace

Outshined_One Cooperstown

Outshined_One

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
I can complain about his defense, but quite frankly, he's surpassed all of my expectations at the plate. The guy is a good hitter.

 

One thing worth noting about his minor league career was that the Cubs doggedly tried him as a switch hitter for a number of years in the minors. However, hitting from the left side simply never stuck with Theriot. I can't remember the exact year the Cubs finally gave up on it (I think 2005 before he started in AA?), but once they did, Theriot became markedly better at the plate. It seemed reasonable to think he could be a decent top of the order hitter without much power.

 

This season, he's on pace to have nearly as many HRs (12) as he's had in the minors and majors combined. That's pretty darn unusual.

 

12?

 

Whoops, mis-read ESPN. 18 HRs.

sporrer17 Draft Eligible

sporrer17

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I think he's just being realistic and expecting a fall back to earth in Theriot's power numbers eventually.

 

He's technically on pace for like 18, but I think we all know he's likely to come up short of that number.

 

on pace means on pace

 

Man this board's been uptight lately.

Outshined_One Cooperstown

Outshined_One

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
I think he's just being realistic and expecting a fall back to earth in Theriot's power numbers eventually.

 

He's technically on pace for like 18, but I think we all know he's likely to come up short of that number.

 

on pace means on pace

 

Man this board's been uptight lately.

 

Lately?

sporrer17 Draft Eligible

sporrer17

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I think he's just being realistic and expecting a fall back to earth in Theriot's power numbers eventually.

 

He's technically on pace for like 18, but I think we all know he's likely to come up short of that number.

 

on pace means on pace

 

Man this board's been uptight lately.

 

Lately?

 

Okay...all season? haha

badnews First Round Pick

badnews

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

I don't like what has happened to his walk-to-strikeout ratio.

 

But he's doing what he's doing and more importantly he's doing it cheap. Check out Nate McLouth's career minor league numbers though.

inari Knoxville Smokies

inari

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I don't like what has happened to his walk-to-strikeout ratio.

 

But he's doing what he's doing and more importantly he's doing it cheap. Check out Nate McLouth's career minor league numbers though.

 

Can someone remind me why we should be overly concerned about K:BB ratios for hitters?

Fred Hornkohl GOAT

Fred Hornkohl

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
I think he's just being realistic and expecting a fall back to earth in Theriot's power numbers eventually.

 

He's technically on pace for like 18, but I think we all know he's likely to come up short of that number.

 

on pace means on pace

 

Oh, man !! That is like, so heavy. It's..... profound !!!

javy knows my name Myrtle Beach Pelicans

javy knows my name

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I think he's just being realistic and expecting a fall back to earth in Theriot's power numbers eventually.

 

He's technically on pace for like 18, but I think we all know he's likely to come up short of that number.

 

on pace means on pace

 

Man this board's been uptight lately.

 

Nah, just Dex

ISUCubsFan College Ball

ISUCubsFan

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
I'm not sure he should be swinging for the fences now, but he's definitely turned into an average to above average SS. That's much better than I though he could be a year and a half ago. He'll never be a perennial all-star (prove me wrong again please), but I don't think his OBP is a fluke, and he'll have value if he can keep that up (and stop trying to steal).
17 Seconds Chicago Cubs

17 Seconds

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I think he's just being realistic and expecting a fall back to earth in Theriot's power numbers eventually.

 

He's technically on pace for like 18, but I think we all know he's likely to come up short of that number.

 

on pace means on pace

 

Man this board's been uptight lately.

 

Nah, just Dex

 

wow relax guys, i wasn't even saying it in an aggressive way. i don't think i'm the one that's up tight

Wheelimus First Round Pick

Wheelimus

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

You won't catch me complaining about Ryan Theriot, warts and all. Because there was a time a couple of seasons ago I thought he was going to make us long for Neifi's bat. Hard to ignore how far he's exceeded our reasonable expectations. I don't really care why he's done it.

 

I'm just a tiny bit concerned that his OBP is down to the .350's. Not terrible, but if that power disappears like I'd expect it to his line won't be as nice.

dew1679666265 Iowa Cubs

dew1679666265

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
You won't catch me complaining about Ryan Theriot, warts and all. Because there was a time a couple of seasons ago I thought he was going to make us long for Neifi's bat. Hard to ignore how far he's exceeded our reasonable expectations. I don't really care why he's done it.

 

I'm just a tiny bit concerned that his OBP is down to the .350's. Not terrible, but if that power disappears like I'd expect it to his line won't be as nice.

 

I think if the power disappears then the OBP will return to normal. Theriot made a conscious decision to swing for extra bases more often - as opposed to slap hitting - and that's what has increased the power and decreased the OBP. If he cuts back on the swing, the OBP should return.

Arnold Layne College Ball

Arnold Layne

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Theriot is one of the few Cubs right now even capable of putting the bat on the ball.

 

Guy is an inexpensive solid player with good instincts at the plate(but not on the bases). I'll take it.

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