Lee to avoid DL (p. 2)

[dew1679666265]

DeRosa's .309 OBP and .754 OPS are not any type of remedy at corner infield.

 

do you really think that's reflective of his true ability level, though? sure, he hasn't started hot, but he's absolutely a better option than anyone we actually have in the organization.

 

EDIT: also it's still way early and so on. if he goes 4-4 with 4 singles today, his obp is .328 and his ops is 790.

 

I don't think it's so far from his ability level going forward that we should be angry that he's not around to play corner infield everyday. Trading DeRosa wasn't a problem, replacing his spot on the roster with Miles and Gathright was. Also, DeRosa is 0 for 4 today.

 

How much of an impact do you think being in a new league with pitchers he hasn't seen as often as NL pitchers has? I tend to think his numbers would be better (even if not a lot better) if he was still in the NL with the Cubs.

[dew1679666265]

I don't regret trading DeRosa - I think it was the right thing to do. However, I wish we had been able to get more.

 

He was traded to make room for Peavy, correct? We should have acquired Peavy first, THEN traded DeRo.

 

We could have afforded both DeRo and Milton Bradley on the same team. If you don't pay Aaron Miles there's a bunch of money right there.

I was for trading DeRosa this offseason while his value was high since we had Fontenot ready to step in. I was in favor of trading him independent of getting Peavy or any other particular target. I was just surprised that Hendry couldn't get more for him.

 

I'm only for trading a valuable piece of a team if you get a deal you can't pass up. I think the players acquired are getting overly criticized by many, but the deal could easily have been passed up.

[Guest]

I don't regret trading DeRosa - I think it was the right thing to do. However, I wish we had been able to get more.

 

He was traded to make room for Peavy, correct? We should have acquired Peavy first, THEN traded DeRo.

 

We could have afforded both DeRo and Milton Bradley on the same team. If you don't pay Aaron Miles there's a bunch of money right there.

I was for trading DeRosa this offseason while his value was high since we had Fontenot ready to step in. I was in favor of trading him independent of getting Peavy or any other particular target. I was just surprised that Hendry couldn't get more for him.

 

I'm only for trading a valuable piece of a team if you get a deal you can't pass up. I think the players acquired are getting overly criticized by many, but the deal could easily have been passed up.

I like Branch Rickey's saying, "It's better to sell too soon than too late."

[dew1679666265]

I don't regret trading DeRosa - I think it was the right thing to do. However, I wish we had been able to get more.

 

He was traded to make room for Peavy, correct? We should have acquired Peavy first, THEN traded DeRo.

 

We could have afforded both DeRo and Milton Bradley on the same team. If you don't pay Aaron Miles there's a bunch of money right there.

I was for trading DeRosa this offseason while his value was high since we had Fontenot ready to step in. I was in favor of trading him independent of getting Peavy or any other particular target. I was just surprised that Hendry couldn't get more for him.

 

I'm only for trading a valuable piece of a team if you get a deal you can't pass up. I think the players acquired are getting overly criticized by many, but the deal could easily have been passed up.

I like Branch Rickey's saying, "It's better to sell too soon than too late."

 

I agree, but you've also got to consider replacing the player you're trading. And are you really trading high when you don't get max value?

[Guest]

 

He was traded to make room for Peavy, correct? We should have acquired Peavy first, THEN traded DeRo.

 

We could have afforded both DeRo and Milton Bradley on the same team. If you don't pay Aaron Miles there's a bunch of money right there.

I was for trading DeRosa this offseason while his value was high since we had Fontenot ready to step in. I was in favor of trading him independent of getting Peavy or any other particular target. I was just surprised that Hendry couldn't get more for him.

 

I'm only for trading a valuable piece of a team if you get a deal you can't pass up. I think the players acquired are getting overly criticized by many, but the deal could easily have been passed up.

I like Branch Rickey's saying, "It's better to sell too soon than too late."

 

I agree, but you've also got to consider replacing the player you're trading. And are you really trading high when you don't get max value?

There's a fallacy that there's a 1-1 replacement in action here. That's simply not the case.

 

The majority of DeRosa's ab's were planned to go to Fontenot. Another set of them to Bradley. Miles was primarily brought in to be the replacement to Cedeno. But there's no clean 1-1 there, all those roles overlap.

[cubfan]

DeRosa's .309 OBP and .754 OPS are not any type of remedy at corner infield.

 

do you really think that's reflective of his true ability level, though? sure, he hasn't started hot, but he's absolutely a better option than anyone we actually have in the organization.

 

EDIT: also it's still way early and so on. if he goes 4-4 with 4 singles today, his obp is .328 and his ops is 790.

 

I don't think it's so far from his ability level going forward that we should be angry that he's not around to play corner infield everyday. Trading DeRosa wasn't a problem, replacing his spot on the roster with Miles and Gathright was. Also, DeRosa is 0 for 4 today.

 

How much of an impact do you think being in a new league with pitchers he hasn't seen as often as NL pitchers has? I tend to think his numbers would be better (even if not a lot better) if he was still in the NL with the Cubs.

 

The same argument could be made for the pitchers that have never faced him before. Also, he was in the AL in 2006 so he has probably faced several of the pitchers before. I do think it is to early to write off DeRosa and he is probaly just off to a slow start but I do not think never seeing the pitchers before is the problem.

[dew1679666265]

The same argument could be made for the pitchers that have never faced him before. Also, he was in the AL in 2006 so he has probably faced several of the pitchers before. I do think it is to early to write off DeRosa and he is probaly just off to a slow start but I do not think never seeing the pitchers before is the problem.

 

I think it can be a problem. Batters have a scouting report on pitchers, but if you haven't seen them you don't know exactly how much their breaking pitches break, their tendencies, etc. It's definitely easier for a batter most of the time the more he sees a pitcher.

 

That's a good point on being there in 2006, but there's been some pretty good turnover I'd say.

[dew1679666265]

There's a fallacy that there's a 1-1 replacement in action here. That's simply not the case.

 

The majority of DeRosa's ab's were planned to go to Fontenot. Another set of them to Bradley. Miles was primarily brought in to be the replacement to Cedeno. But there's no clean 1-1 there, all those roles overlap.

 

I'm not talking about straight up production though. DeRosa's value was that he could be productive and fill numerous positions on the field (obviously not at once . . . ). That would be even more valuable this year with Bradley being added.

 

We've already seen the defensive hit we took when Aramis went down and Fontenot had to play there (though he seems to have improved somewhat). Already Miles and Freel are getting at bats that we didn't know they'd be getting (with Aramis out til August) and DeRosa could have filled that void.

[questionmarkgrace]

Seriously, if we want to remain in contention through this crud storm, there going to have to make a trade for someone, and a quality player at that. Even at this point in the season there will be available guys, but yeah, you're going to over pay for someone, but thats just the way it is, unless we want to wait til another next year. Cantu, Huff, and Atkins can all play 1st and 3rd. Huff and Atkins would be much cheaper, but at this point, I say go all out and see what the Marlins want for Huff. We could also look into Beltre.

 

The fact is, Hoffpauir is doing well, but he cant hit lefties to save his life, and we cant afford to bring up another minor leaguer. The only ones who can hit anything are outfielders.

 

He had all of 8 ab's versus lefties this year resulting in two doubles and three k's. Thats not nearly enough to make any sort of judgment on his ability to hit them. Lets give hime the benefit of doubt for now.

[17 Seconds]

Actually in reality the Derrek Lee injury is the one that actually helps us.

[Keener98]

Actually in reality the Derrek Lee injury is the one that actually helps us.

 

 

Well yea, that is if hed go on the DL and quit making his team play a man short for 5 games.

[SCCubbieFAN]

The same argument could be made for the pitchers that have never faced him before. Also, he was in the AL in 2006 so he has probably faced several of the pitchers before. I do think it is to early to write off DeRosa and he is probaly just off to a slow start but I do not think never seeing the pitchers before is the problem.

 

I think it can be a problem. Batters have a scouting report on pitchers, but if you haven't seen them you don't know exactly how much their breaking pitches break, their tendencies, etc. It's definitely easier for a batter most of the time the more he sees a pitcher.

 

That's a good point on being there in 2006, but there's been some pretty good turnover I'd say.

 

 

And DeRo did not seem to have any problem adjusting from AL pitching to NL pitching after the Cubs signed him.

[fromthestretch]

The fact is, Hoffpauir is doing well, but he cant hit lefties to save his life...

 

Based on what? He hit them well in the minors.

 

Since 2005:

 

vs. RHP (1024 AB): .296/.358/.516

vs. LHP (379 AB): .293/.338/.509

[dew1679666265]

The same argument could be made for the pitchers that have never faced him before. Also, he was in the AL in 2006 so he has probably faced several of the pitchers before. I do think it is to early to write off DeRosa and he is probaly just off to a slow start but I do not think never seeing the pitchers before is the problem.

 

I think it can be a problem. Batters have a scouting report on pitchers, but if you haven't seen them you don't know exactly how much their breaking pitches break, their tendencies, etc. It's definitely easier for a batter most of the time the more he sees a pitcher.

 

That's a good point on being there in 2006, but there's been some pretty good turnover I'd say.

 

 

And DeRo did not seem to have any problem adjusting from AL pitching to NL pitching after the Cubs signed him.

 

Good point. He had an .865 OPS in March/April in 07.

[dew1679666265]

The fact is, Hoffpauir is doing well, but he cant hit lefties to save his life...

 

Based on what? He hit them well in the minors.

 

Since 2005:

 

vs. RHP (1024 AB): .296/.358/.516

vs. LHP (379 AB): .293/.338/.509

 

Where did you get those stats? I looked around everywhere, but couldn't figure out how to get minor league splits.

[fromthestretch]

The fact is, Hoffpauir is doing well, but he cant hit lefties to save his life...

 

Based on what? He hit them well in the minors.

 

Since 2005:

 

vs. RHP (1024 AB): .296/.358/.516

vs. LHP (379 AB): .293/.338/.509

 

Where did you get those stats? I looked around everywhere, but couldn't figure out how to get minor league splits.

 

http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/

[dew1679666265]

The fact is, Hoffpauir is doing well, but he cant hit lefties to save his life...

 

Based on what? He hit them well in the minors.

 

Since 2005:

 

vs. RHP (1024 AB): .296/.358/.516

vs. LHP (379 AB): .293/.338/.509

 

Where did you get those stats? I looked around everywhere, but couldn't figure out how to get minor league splits.

 

http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/

 

Awesome. Thanks!

[Soul]

I'm looking for Hoff to straight up replace Lee's production at the plate, maybe more.

 

I'm not going to accept a Lee injury hurting this ballclub. I haven't been very high on Derrek since the beginning of last season, that's a long time to now be upset that he's injured.

 

We should be able to replace Lee's production, or else we aren't that good in the first place.

[Little Slide Rooter]

No DL for now

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090511&content_id=4675840&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[Keener98]

He "could return later this week", wtf. Just DL him and let him get it as healthy as a bulging disk can get.

[E.J.]

He "could return later this week", wtf. Just DL him and let him get it as healthy as a bulging disk can get.

 

Article says he could be back in the lineup either on Tuesday or Wednesday.

[apete6]

The fact is, Hoffpauir is doing well, but he cant hit lefties to save his life...

 

Based on what? He hit them well in the minors.

 

Since 2005:

 

vs. RHP (1024 AB): .296/.358/.516

vs. LHP (379 AB): .293/.338/.509

 

Where did you get those stats? I looked around everywhere, but couldn't figure out how to get minor league splits.

 

http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/

 

That address isn't just a clever name, I guess...

 

Good info!

[Keener98]

He "could return later this week", wtf. Just DL him and let him get it as healthy as a bulging disk can get.

 

Article says he could be back in the lineup either on Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

I understand that and it was also said over the weekend he could be back on Saturday. He has a bulging disk in his neck, isnt hitting worth crap, and the Cubs have a suitable fill in for him at 1st base right now. Let him take his time to get it as healthy as possible, then come back. Part of me believes this is all D lee not wanting to be placed on the DL, as a show of his "gamesmanship" like his never wanting to take a day off. I think Lee is worried if he goes on the DL, Hoff may perform to well to be replaced when Lee is ready to come off the DL.

 

Right now with Bradley healthy would be the best time for Lee to take a DL stint and let Hoff play 1st. Then when Bradley goes down with another injury, Hoff can replace him in RF, and Lee can go back to 1st base. If Lee isnt in the starting lineup tomorrow, then its once again, plain ignorant not to DL him. Hell hes already missed what 6 days? What is another week, while playing a weak SD and Houston team. Come back fully rested ready to go next week in Stl.

 

EDIT: Anyways Lee shouldnt be coming back from missing 6 days or whatever it is to face a guy like Peavy hes 2-13 in his career against. Also Peavy has an .800OPS against this year when facing leftys, and a .450OPS against Rightys. So there really is no reason for Lee to play tomorrow, so just DL him and give him the week to recover.

[erik316wttn]

There's a fallacy that there's a 1-1 replacement in action here. That's simply not the case.

 

The majority of DeRosa's ab's were planned to go to Fontenot. Another set of them to Bradley. Miles was primarily brought in to be the replacement to Cedeno. But there's no clean 1-1 there, all those roles overlap.

 

I'm not talking about straight up production though. DeRosa's value was that he could be productive and fill numerous positions on the field (obviously not at once . . . ). That would be even more valuable this year with Bradley being added.

 

We've already seen the defensive hit we took when Aramis went down and Fontenot had to play there (though he seems to have improved somewhat). Already Miles and Freel are getting at bats that we didn't know they'd be getting (with Aramis out til August) and DeRosa could have filled that void.

 

DeRo could have gotten plenty of at-bats in the supersub/first off the bench role. He probably wouldn't have started every day, but he would have gotten plenty of starts between having to rest Bradley and Ramirez.

 

And as for Tim's argument, yes, sometimes it is best to sell high, and DeRo's value wasn't going to get any higher. If you pull the trigger on that trade, Hendry did it at the right time. However, he didn't get anything close to what DeRo was worth. And also, sometimes the best trade is the one you don't make. We're really missing him now when we really could have used him. It's not like it was a huge stretch to foresee Bradley or Aram missing significant time with an injury.

[dew1679666265]

There's a fallacy that there's a 1-1 replacement in action here. That's simply not the case.

 

The majority of DeRosa's ab's were planned to go to Fontenot. Another set of them to Bradley. Miles was primarily brought in to be the replacement to Cedeno. But there's no clean 1-1 there, all those roles overlap.

 

I'm not talking about straight up production though. DeRosa's value was that he could be productive and fill numerous positions on the field (obviously not at once . . . ). That would be even more valuable this year with Bradley being added.

 

We've already seen the defensive hit we took when Aramis went down and Fontenot had to play there (though he seems to have improved somewhat). Already Miles and Freel are getting at bats that we didn't know they'd be getting (with Aramis out til August) and DeRosa could have filled that void.

 

DeRo could have gotten plenty of at-bats in the supersub/first off the bench role. He probably wouldn't have started every day, but he would have gotten plenty of starts between having to rest Bradley and Ramirez.

 

And as for Tim's argument, yes, sometimes it is best to sell high, and DeRo's value wasn't going to get any higher. If you pull the trigger on that trade, Hendry did it at the right time. However, he didn't get anything close to what DeRo was worth. And also, sometimes the best trade is the one you don't make. We're really missing him now when we really could have used him. It's not like it was a huge stretch to foresee Bradley or Aram missing significant time with an injury.

 

Exactly. When choosing to sell high, you must be certain that what you're getting in return is more valuable than the player you are shipping out. DeRosa's value is just too high for a pretty good reliever and two high risk/high reward starters to make up for.

 

The only real exception to this is if you feel the player's production is going to completely collapse. I saw no evidence in the offseason that DeRosa would do that.

 

He's back up to a .751 OPS, by the way. And he had a .242 BABIP in April. I think he'll come around.