Cardinals best start since '44

[kente777]

Are the Cardinals this good? Do you think they have the talent to carry them all season?

 

discuss

[Mike Aller]

They wont be a .700 team by any means, but their offense is really, really good.

[17 Seconds]

They wont be a .700 team by any means, but their offense is really, really good.

 

You mean right now it's really, really good. Unless you think Chris Duncan will stay a 1.021 OPS hitter, Molina an .882 OPS hitter, Brian Barden a 1.047 OPS hitter, etc etc

[illiniguy]

I also think it will be hard for Joel Piniero to keep up an era in the 3s if he continues to not strike anyone out.

[Mike Aller]

They wont be a .700 team by any means, but their offense is really, really good.

 

You mean right now it's really, really good. Unless you think Chris Duncan will stay a 1.021 OPS hitter, Molina an .882 OPS hitter, Brian Barden a 1.047 OPS hitter, etc etc

Well, obviously. Hence me saying they wont be a .700 team. But, even at the end of the year, they will probably have a really, really good offense.

[rynefan]

When I kept hearing they were not going to have a great year this year, I highly doubted it. Time will tell, but if they even remotely keep it up, they could run away with it.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The pitching will ultimately fail, and guys like Molina and Duncan will go back to doing what they do. However, they still have a formidable offense, especially when Glaus comes back, and they can put up 4-6 runs a game easily. The question is how many runs will the pitching give up a game?

[nolanwood]

I don't get it...if the Cubs threw that kinda team on the field we'd be lucky to win 60 games. They're not gonna get too far if they continue to lead the league in errors.

[bhogg]

Pitching and defense could really hurt the cards in the long run.

 

However, it's baseball --- anything can happen.

 

 

Well, almost anything.

[TruffleShuffle]

Pitching and defense could really hurt the cards in the long run.

 

i think their defense is actually pretty good. molina and pujols are two of the best defenders in baseball at their positions, and greene is a good shortstop. ankiel makes some questionable reads but has a great arm; rasmus and ludwick are fine at their positions (duncan is not).

 

can't say i know much about skippy at 2B or barden/thurston at 3B.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

UZR has Greene being awful so far this year, and has him being awful last year as well. Combine that with Duncan being awful when he plays, Ankiel not being very good since no one runs on his arm, and Schumaker being bad , and it's not hard to see them being a mediocre defensive team. Maybe not lead the majors in errors bad, but that's not really an important distinction anyway.

[TruffleShuffle]

UZR has Greene being awful so far this year, and has him being awful last year as well. Combine that with Duncan being awful when he plays, Ankiel not being very good since no one runs on his arm, and Schumaker being bad , and it's not hard to see them being a mediocre defensive team. Maybe not lead the majors in errors bad, but that's not really an important distinction anyway.

 

i didn't realize greene's defense had gone the way of his offense. early in his career he was very good defensively.

 

ankiel isn't great but i think his reads have improved with experience. also, isn't it a bit of a plus that teams don't run on him because of his arm? he at least prevents an extra base being taken even if he's not getting the out.

 

i think pujols and molina both being +15 defenders makes them at least an average defensive team if not better.

[webjim25]

The pitching will ultimately fail, and guys like Molina and Duncan will go back to doing what they do. However, they still have a formidable offense, especially when Glaus comes back, and they can put up 4-6 runs a game easily. The question is how many runs will the pitching give up a game?

 

A front 3 of Wainright, Carpenter and Loshe may not be tops in the league, but it will be better than average.

[manbearcub]

The pitching will ultimately fail, and guys like Molina and Duncan will go back to doing what they do. However, they still have a formidable offense, especially when Glaus comes back, and they can put up 4-6 runs a game easily. The question is how many runs will the pitching give up a game?

 

A front 3 of Wainright, Carpenter and Loshe may not be tops in the league, but it will be better than average.

hypothetically, of course.

[RedVerbs]

Will they be this good all year? No

Will they be a playoff team? Possibly

 

Good offense, decent pitching, good pitching when Carpenter pitches.

[The Other 15]

When I kept hearing they were not going to have a great year this year, I highly doubted it. Time will tell, but if they even remotely keep it up, they could run away with it.

If they remotely keep winning at a .700 clip they "could" run away with it? Who could overtake them? 1906 Cubs, 1998 Yanks, 1999 Mariners, or 1984 Tigers?

 

Look, this really needs to stop. I like St Louis' offense last year when no one was willing to accept that players like Ludwick could actually turn out to be good for a few years despite their age. And I respect LaRussa/Duncan a great deal as well. I just don't give them credit where credit is not due. They don't magically transform mediocre players into great players no matter how much a sappy Cub fan who is inflicted with Cards paranoia believes it to be true. They have made some players that were destined to be serviceable players in major league baseball serviceable. It's a great and admirable skill, but a far cry from what that sappy Cub fan always depicts them as being.

 

Teams get off to hot starts all the time. See Milwaukee 2007. Hot starting teams without great talent up and down the entire roster will cool off most of the time. See Milwaukee 2007.

 

Yes, it's possible that Pienro COULD be this good for the entire season with really mediocre pitching as his primary weapon. It's possible but not probable. And it's possible that Molina COULD be a legit middle of the order bat like he is during this start. It's also possible that Duncan and Barton COULD be 1.000+ OPS hitters at the bottom of the order. But a long history of baseball says to wait.

 

This isn't the NBA. You need much more than a incredible superstar with some decent players around him to be a great team. You actually need - well, a great team to be a great team. If you don't have a great tam, you could make use of some really good players having career years to be a great team. Does St Louis have that as their recipe? Unlikely, but time will tell. Point is to wait for quite a considerable time longer than 20, 30, or 40 games before committing about how the Cards are legit.

 

The old axiom of "WS's are not won in April but could be lost in April" does not apply to the 2009 Cubs. Being around .500 (without even considering that some players have been hurt, and others have not performed) has not pushed the Cubs out of contention.

 

I only ask the we begin to hold off talk of the great 2009 Cardinals until they are actually that. Otherwise, it will really make some intelligent people look pretty stupid if the game of baseball evens things out, like it has a great tradition of doing, with hot starting teams.

[webjim25]

The pitching will ultimately fail, and guys like Molina and Duncan will go back to doing what they do. However, they still have a formidable offense, especially when Glaus comes back, and they can put up 4-6 runs a game easily. The question is how many runs will the pitching give up a game?

 

A front 3 of Wainright, Carpenter and Loshe may not be tops in the league, but it will be better than average.

hypothetically, of course.

 

As hypothetical as 90% of the discussions we have on sites like this, of course.

 

I dont get it. The Cardinals were 4 games out of a playoff spot last year while leading baseball in blown saves, having Aaron Miles, Itzturis and Adam Kennedy as every day players, getting 15 innings from Carpenter but 200 innings from Braden Looper. All this while playing in perhaps the strongest division in baseball. If the Cards improved even a little bit on all of that and the Brewers, Astros and Cubs regress just a little bit, I dont know why anyone wouldnt expect St. Louis to compete.

[Guest]

The Cardinals and Al Pujols especially can kiss my back bumper (since we have to talk here like a 7PM TV sitcom).

 

If they keep scoring runs they will walk away with this division.

[illiniguy]

The pitching will ultimately fail, and guys like Molina and Duncan will go back to doing what they do. However, they still have a formidable offense, especially when Glaus comes back, and they can put up 4-6 runs a game easily. The question is how many runs will the pitching give up a game?

 

A front 3 of Wainright, Carpenter and Loshe may not be tops in the league, but it will be better than average.

hypothetically, of course.

 

As hypothetical as 90% of the discussions we have on sites like this, of course.

 

I dont get it. The Cardinals were 4 games out of a playoff spot last year while leading baseball in blown saves, having Aaron Miles, Itzturis and Adam Kennedy as every day players, getting 15 innings from Carpenter but 200 innings from Braden Looper. All this while playing in perhaps the strongest division in baseball. If the Cards improved even a little bit on all of that and the Brewers, Astros and Cubs regress just a little bit, I dont know why anyone wouldnt expect St. Louis to compete.

Well from last year you have already lost Glaus. by you I mean the Cardinals and replace him with two career minor leaguers who are out producing him. But, that would be one area where you would regress. I would also assume that most people, Cardinal fans included, expected guys like Ludwick and Ankiel to regress. Hence why you saw a ton of trade these guys posts on most Cardinal message boards this off season. I still don't think they can keep this up.

[Mephistopheles]

yay cardinal homers.

[Sammys Boombox]

Pitching and defense could really hurt the cards in the long run.

 

i think their defense is actually pretty good. molina and pujols are two of the best defenders in baseball at their positions, and greene is a good shortstop. ankiel makes some questionable reads but has a great arm; rasmus and ludwick are fine at their positions (duncan is not).

 

can't say i know much about skippy at 2B or barden/thurston at 3B.

 

I have seen Pujols make a lot of bad plays at first base this season. His footwork is totally messed up, and that's the most important thing for a first baseman on defense. There have been plenty of throws that should be easy scoops that Pujols is missing. They're not errors on him, but they're plays that ML first basemen need to make. Greene is having a horrible defensive season.

[webjim25]

The pitching will ultimately fail, and guys like Molina and Duncan will go back to doing what they do. However, they still have a formidable offense, especially when Glaus comes back, and they can put up 4-6 runs a game easily. The question is how many runs will the pitching give up a game?

 

A front 3 of Wainright, Carpenter and Loshe may not be tops in the league, but it will be better than average.

hypothetically, of course.

 

As hypothetical as 90% of the discussions we have on sites like this, of course.

 

I dont get it. The Cardinals were 4 games out of a playoff spot last year while leading baseball in blown saves, having Aaron Miles, Itzturis and Adam Kennedy as every day players, getting 15 innings from Carpenter but 200 innings from Braden Looper. All this while playing in perhaps the strongest division in baseball. If the Cards improved even a little bit on all of that and the Brewers, Astros and Cubs regress just a little bit, I dont know why anyone wouldnt expect St. Louis to compete.

Well from last year you have already lost Glaus. by you I mean the Cardinals and replace him with two career minor leaguers who are out producing him. But, that would be one area where you would regress. I would also assume that most people, Cardinal fans included, expected guys like Ludwick and Ankiel to regress. Hence why you saw a ton of trade these guys posts on most Cardinal message boards this off season. I still don't think they can keep this up.

 

I do not expect Ankiel to regress. He OPS'd 119 in 08 and 120 in 07. Regress to what? 110? 120 isnt exactly setting the world on fire, especially for someone who's always shown above average power. I expect Rick to hit above average. Gluas is down right now but he will be back. And when he returns I expect him to hit on line with his career averages. That would be a regression from what Barden and Thurston are doing, but it would be inline with what the Cards got out of 3B last year. Even after reading your post 4 times, I still dont understand what you expect from the 09 Cardinals. Do you expect them to be worse than last year??? I just dont get it.

[Mephistopheles]

The Cardinals always overachieve for a month. They've had an easy as hell schedule the first month.

[webjim25]

The pitching will ultimately fail, and guys like Molina and Duncan will go back to doing what they do. However, they still have a formidable offense, especially when Glaus comes back, and they can put up 4-6 runs a game easily. The question is how many runs will the pitching give up a game?

 

A front 3 of Wainright, Carpenter and Loshe may not be tops in the league, but it will be better than average.

hypothetically, of course.

 

As hypothetical as 90% of the discussions we have on sites like this, of course.

 

I dont get it. The Cardinals were 4 games out of a playoff spot last year while leading baseball in blown saves, having Aaron Miles, Itzturis and Adam Kennedy as every day players, getting 15 innings from Carpenter but 200 innings from Braden Looper. All this while playing in perhaps the strongest division in baseball. If the Cards improved even a little bit on all of that and the Brewers, Astros and Cubs regress just a little bit, I dont know why anyone wouldnt expect St. Louis to compete.

Well from last year you have already lost Glaus. by you I mean the Cardinals and replace him with two career minor leaguers who are out producing him. But, that would be one area where you would regress. I would also assume that most people, Cardinal fans included, expected guys like Ludwick and Ankiel to regress. Hence why you saw a ton of trade these guys posts on most Cardinal message boards this off season. I still don't think they can keep this up.

 

I have a question for you, speaking of regressions. Do you expect guys like Fukadome(sp?) Bradley, Dempster and Fonteno(sp?) to refress?

[Little Slide Rooter]

 

I have a question for you, speaking of regressions. Do you expect guys like Fukadome(sp?) Bradley, Dempster and Fonteno(sp?) to refress?

 

I expect some regression from Fukudome, but hopefully he'll stabilize into a much better player than he did last year. as for Bradley and Fontenot, hopefully this is a rough patch for them and the'll just get better.

 

Thats how it usually works for veteran players. Whether they have a rough start or a hot start, they tend to stabilize somewhere around their career averages.