Cub prospects in the news

[Guest]

Bob (Tinley Park, IL)

 

 

What happened to Josh Vitters...I'm guessing that he dropped off your list due to his lack of plate discipline?

 

Klaw (1:16 PM)

 

 

Yes, in a nutshell. His whole approach isn't improving - if anything it's gone backwards. Great swing, potential power, but how's he going to get to it if he shows virtually no discrimination at the plate?

I'll say it again...

 

Three game walk streak! :D

[Guest]

Being a little more serious, though...

 

Vitters now has 17 walks in 253 at bats in 2010. This compares to 12 in 458 in 2009. It's certainly not ideal at this point. But it's trending the right way, the kid isn't old enough to drink yet and he's playing in AA.

 

His performance would look fine in AA so far if his BABIP were normal.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not sure why plate discipline is the only thing.

 

He just sucks. His season numbers are bad, his current numbers are bad, his professional career numbers are bad.

[Guest]

I'm not sure why plate discipline is the only thing.

 

He just sucks. His season numbers are bad, his current numbers are bad, his professional career numbers are bad.

Oh, okay.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not sure why plate discipline is the only thing.

 

He just sucks. His season numbers are bad, his current numbers are bad, his professional career numbers are bad.

Oh, okay.

 

Do you have something to the contrary? He's a 750 OPS cornerman with a questionable defensive future.

[Guest]

I'm not sure why plate discipline is the only thing.

 

He just sucks. His season numbers are bad, his current numbers are bad, his professional career numbers are bad.

Oh, okay.

 

Do you have something to the contrary? He's a 750 OPS cornerman with a questionable defensive future.

I don't know why the Cubs have always rushed him. If he were still in Peoria at 20 years old, he'd be age appropriate. And I'm very confident he'd have better than a .750 OPS there.

 

He has very, very good raw power. He continues to improve his strikeout rate as he advances. He's improving his walk rate. The lousy luck on balls in play is keeping his AA numbers down, but he's more than holding his own in that league as a 20 year old. Heck, he could play there the next three years and STILL be age appropriate.

 

If you want to say his numbers to date suck as a corner infielder, then I have no argument with that. If you want to say, "He just sucks." - well, then you and I will have to disagree. I still see a high ceiling, high risk kid who the Cubs are putting through a strange development path.

 

I have no idea how he's going to turn out at this point. But I'm pretty damn sure that it's far too early to proclaim he sucks with any certainty.

[CUBZ99]

I'm not sure why plate discipline is the only thing.

 

He just sucks. His season numbers are bad, his current numbers are bad, his professional career numbers are bad.

Oh, okay.

 

Do you have something to the contrary? He's a 750 OPS cornerman with a questionable defensive future.

 

 

You seem pretty rough on the guy considering his age and his history of eventually adjusting to the league. If you look at his stats so far throughout the minors he has always struggled during his first go round and then adjusted nicely.

 

Boise .451 OPS 1st year

.863 OPS 2nd year

 

Peoria .643 OPS partial 1st year

.886 OPS 2nd year

 

Daytona .604 OPS partial 1st year

.795 2nd year

 

There is clearly a pattern there and there is no reason to believe that he won't start to figure it out at AA. Plus, according to almost every scout he has great tools. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt until he stalls out at some point.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not sure why plate discipline is the only thing.

 

He just sucks. His season numbers are bad, his current numbers are bad, his professional career numbers are bad.

Oh, okay.

 

Do you have something to the contrary? He's a 750 OPS cornerman with a questionable defensive future.

I don't know why the Cubs have always rushed him. If he were still in Peoria at 20 years old, he'd be age appropriate. And I'm very confident he'd have better than a .750 OPS there.

 

He has very, very good raw power. He continues to improve his strikeout rate as he advances. He's improving his walk rate. The lousy luck on balls in play is keeping his AA numbers down, but he's more than holding his own in that league as a 20 year old. Heck, he could play there the next three years and STILL be age appropriate.

 

If you want to say his numbers to date suck as a corner infielder, then I have no argument with that. If you want to say, "He just sucks." - well, then you and I will have to disagree. I still see a high ceiling, high risk kid who the Cubs are putting through a strange development path.

 

I have no idea how he's going to turn out at this point. But I'm pretty damn sure that it's far too early to proclaim he sucks with any certainty.

 

It's too early to proclaim how his career will unfold. But the fact is right now he sucks.

[Guancous]

It's too early to proclaim how his career will unfold. But the fact is right now he sucks.

 

Yeah, let's trade Vitters for a proven veteran like Yuniesky Betancourt. Jersey Cubs Fan is right. Let's move Vitters now before he loses his prospect tag in 2016.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's too early to proclaim how his career will unfold. But the fact is right now he sucks.

 

Yeah, let's trade Vitters for a proven veteran like Yuniesky Betancourt. Jersey Cubs Fan is right. Let's move Vitters now before he loses his prospect tag in 2016.

 

It's amazing to me how bad people are at reading. Either that, or how afraid people are to admit when a prospect they have hope for is playing poorly. It's not like admitting he sucks right now commits you to a lifetime of hating Josh Vitters. He sucks, but maybe in the future he won't.

[Guest]

It's too early to proclaim how his career will unfold. But the fact is right now he sucks.

 

Yeah, let's trade Vitters for a proven veteran like Yuniesky Betancourt. Jersey Cubs Fan is right. Let's move Vitters now before he loses his prospect tag in 2016.

 

It's amazing to me how bad people are at reading. Either that, or how afraid people are to admit when a prospect they have hope for is playing poorly. It's not like admitting he sucks right now commits you to a lifetime of hating Josh Vitters. He sucks, but maybe in the future he won't.

If everyone is reading it wrong, perhaps it is a case of poor writing...

[jersey cubs fan]

It's too early to proclaim how his career will unfold. But the fact is right now he sucks.

 

Yeah, let's trade Vitters for a proven veteran like Yuniesky Betancourt. Jersey Cubs Fan is right. Let's move Vitters now before he loses his prospect tag in 2016.

 

It's amazing to me how bad people are at reading. Either that, or how afraid people are to admit when a prospect they have hope for is playing poorly. It's not like admitting he sucks right now commits you to a lifetime of hating Josh Vitters. He sucks, but maybe in the future he won't.

If everyone is reading it wrong, perhaps it is a case of poor writing...

 

It's more likely people getting their panties in a bunch because somebody pointed out a prospect's production has not lived up to hopes.

 

Although in Guano's case up there I think he may just not know how to read.

[Guancous]

We simply disagree that a 20 year old seeing his first AA action with a .750 OPS "sucks". That's the hardest jump in the minors and his skills are improving by the week.

[Guancous]

To get this thread back on track, here's an excerpt from Kevin Goldstein's chat yesterday:

Sean (Boston): What do you think of both Cub arms Trey McNutt and Chris Archer? Ceilings?

 

Kevin Goldstein: Huge, HUGE McNutt fan. I saw him twice before the promotion and he was up to 96 (some have had him higher than that) with a really good slider. The control comes and goes, but that's one helluva arm. Great find for the Cubs there.

 

[Guest]

I don't know, Goony. When I read:

He just sucks. His season numbers are bad, his current numbers are bad, his professional career numbers are bad.

I don't think you're just talking about present tense. I read that you're making a complete statement about him as a prospect. I guess with clarification, I can read it that you're just talking about his production and not his overall prospect status (which is all about the future, really).

 

But it seems to me an easier way to read it as an overall condemnation.

[Guest]

We simply disagree that a 20 year old seeing his first AA action with a .750 OPS "sucks". That's the hardest jump in the minors and his skills are improving by the week.

to be fair, his AA ops is only .659

 

 

albeit with a heaping helping of bad luck involved.

[ScrubMD]

 

It's too early to proclaim how his career will unfold. But the fact is right now he sucks.

 

Actually that's very very very far from a fact.

[risico]

Guys, let's be real about Vitters:

 

His raw numbers are brought down by really bad luck on balls in play. A BABIP of .261 is unsustainably low. Adjust for that and all the numbers don't look terrible.

 

But he's not performing great either. He's currently posting an ISO of about .130 which is terrible for such a highly touted power hitter. His ISO in Daytona wasn't great either (though his power numbers in Peoria last season were excellent). Honestly, the Cubs were too aggressive in promoting him and he should be in Daytona right now.

 

He is very young and has adjusted well at every level so far. You have to hope that he makes the adjustment to AA pitching and starts to hit (I think it will come next year or possibly 2 years from now). The jump from A+ to AA ball is pretty difficult.

[TruffleShuffle]

i think the biggest concern about vitters is that while the scouts drool over his swing and ability to make contact, if he's not swinging at the right pitches, it's not going to do him a whole lot of good. i think that's what keith law was getting at. for someone who supposedly has a great gift with his swing, he seems to strike out too much and not hit for a good enough average.

[KingCubsFan]

From John Sickels:

**Thomas Diamond started the game for Iowa, pitching three shutout innings before being shutdown so he can go to the Triple-A All-Star Game. Max velocity was 92 MPH; most of his fastballs were 88-89. His breaking ball was a consistent 85 MPH. His best pitch was a 74-76 MPH changeup which had great dropping action. He doesn't throw as hard as he did before Tommy John surgery, but he showed polish, and I don't remember the changeup being that good before he got hurt. I got some video of him which I will post tonight or tomorrow.

Kind of disappointing. Given how long it's been since he's had Tommy John, I wonder if that velocity will ever come back.

[scarey]

From John Sickels:

**Thomas Diamond started the game for Iowa, pitching three shutout innings before being shutdown so he can go to the Triple-A All-Star Game. Max velocity was 92 MPH; most of his fastballs were 88-89. His breaking ball was a consistent 85 MPH. His best pitch was a 74-76 MPH changeup which had great dropping action. He doesn't throw as hard as he did before Tommy John surgery, but he showed polish, and I don't remember the changeup being that good before he got hurt. I got some video of him which I will post tonight or tomorrow.

Kind of disappointing. Given how long it's been since he's had Tommy John, I wonder if that velocity will ever come back.

 

If he has a 74 mph changeup, the 89 mph fastball will work for him.

[Guest]

From the reports I've seen, he's been consistently working in the low 90s this season.

[javy knows my name]

From John Sickels:

**Thomas Diamond started the game for Iowa, pitching three shutout innings before being shutdown so he can go to the Triple-A All-Star Game. Max velocity was 92 MPH; most of his fastballs were 88-89. His breaking ball was a consistent 85 MPH. His best pitch was a 74-76 MPH changeup which had great dropping action. He doesn't throw as hard as he did before Tommy John surgery, but he showed polish, and I don't remember the changeup being that good before he got hurt. I got some video of him which I will post tonight or tomorrow.

Kind of disappointing. Given how long it's been since he's had Tommy John, I wonder if that velocity will ever come back.

 

If he has a 74 mph changeup, the 89 mph fastball will work for him.

No kidding. How is this even possible? The speed differential between the two has to typically be less than 10 mph, right?

[BeerHere]

From John Sickels:

**Thomas Diamond started the game for Iowa, pitching three shutout innings before being shutdown so he can go to the Triple-A All-Star Game. Max velocity was 92 MPH; most of his fastballs were 88-89. His breaking ball was a consistent 85 MPH. His best pitch was a 74-76 MPH changeup which had great dropping action. He doesn't throw as hard as he did before Tommy John surgery, but he showed polish, and I don't remember the changeup being that good before he got hurt. I got some video of him which I will post tonight or tomorrow.

Kind of disappointing. Given how long it's been since he's had Tommy John, I wonder if that velocity will ever come back.

 

If he has a 74 mph changeup, the 89 mph fastball will work for him.

No kidding. How is this even possible? The speed differential between the two has to typically be less than 10 mph, right?

 

I think the ideal difference between a FB and change is 10-15 mph

[jersey cubs fan]

From John Sickels:

**Thomas Diamond started the game for Iowa, pitching three shutout innings before being shutdown so he can go to the Triple-A All-Star Game. Max velocity was 92 MPH; most of his fastballs were 88-89. His breaking ball was a consistent 85 MPH. His best pitch was a 74-76 MPH changeup which had great dropping action. He doesn't throw as hard as he did before Tommy John surgery, but he showed polish, and I don't remember the changeup being that good before he got hurt. I got some video of him which I will post tonight or tomorrow.

Kind of disappointing. Given how long it's been since he's had Tommy John, I wonder if that velocity will ever come back.

 

If he has a 74 mph changeup, the 89 mph fastball will work for him.

No kidding. How is this even possible? The speed differential between the two has to typically be less than 10 mph, right?

 

I think the ideal difference between a FB and change is 10-15 mph

 

Less than 10 seems pretty weak..