NHL W. Conference Finals: Red Wings defeat Blackhawks 4-1

[Hairyducked Idiot]

5-10, 185 is still pretty tiny for a hockey player. He's just never going to be a complete player.

 

I hate to use +/-, because it's such a flawed stat, but there's a reason why Kane has been a minus player at even-strength in both his seasons.

[jersey cubs fan]

5-10, 185 is still pretty tiny for a hockey player. He's just never going to be a complete player.

 

I hate to use +/-, because it's such a flawed stat, but there's a reason why Kane has been a minus player at even-strength in both his seasons.

 

I'm trying to figure out why your biggest fear is that Buffalo will throw a ton of money at him and the Blackhawks won't be able to match. Seems to me with the argument you are making you should be more than happy to see him taken off the team in a couple years, or that your biggest fear is that they will actually match whatever offer he gets.

[Soul]

Yeah, if Kaner's just a one-sided player who can't be your core guy, then why would Buffalo toss him a truckload of cash anyway? Are you saying they're stupid?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

5-10, 185 is still pretty tiny for a hockey player. He's just never going to be a complete player.

 

I hate to use +/-, because it's such a flawed stat, but there's a reason why Kane has been a minus player at even-strength in both his seasons.

 

I'm trying to figure out why your biggest fear is that Buffalo will throw a ton of money at him and the Blackhawks won't be able to match. Seems to me with the argument you are making you should be more than happy to see him taken off the team in a couple years, or that your biggest fear is that they will actually match whatever offer he gets.

 

Of course not. I've stated repeatedly that he's a very valuable hockey player.

 

In case that's still being ignored: I'm completely saying that Kane is a very valuable hockey player.

 

He's an almost breakeven player at even strength, provides you with no PK, and has 63 power-play points in two seasons. That's a guy you love to have.

 

But compare that with Toews: wins faceoffs, almost as many points as Kane, +23 in two seasons, will eventually be a PKer and still manages 44 power-play points.

 

I'd absolutely love to keep both. But with our cap situation, we may have to choose. If Buffalo is a franchise in need of a boost in popularity, maybe they offer Kaner 5/$45, and you just can't match that for what he brings to the table.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Yeah, if Kaner's just a one-sided player who can't be your core guy, then why would Buffalo toss him a truckload of cash anyway? Are you saying they're stupid?

 

I'm saying he's an exciting player with good PR and local ties to Buffalo. They aren't stupid, but they wouldn't be doing it for hockey-reasons only.

[jaydee]

Kane hate the day after he wins game 6 for us. Awesome! I can't wait for quant driven Buffalo to offer to overpay a 'cherry picker'....that will be the day. Funny how he was much more effective than Toews yesterday, even though Toews is so much further along physically. Just shows you how much more talent he has.

[jersey cubs fan]

Of course not. I've stated repeatedly that he's a very valuable hockey player.

 

In case that's still being ignored: I'm completely saying that Kane is a very valuable hockey player.

 

He's an almost breakeven player at even strength, provides you with no PK, and has 63 power-play points in two seasons. That's a guy you love to have.

 

But compare that with Toews: wins faceoffs, almost as many points as Kane, +23 in two seasons, will eventually be a PKer and still manages 44 power-play points.

 

I'd absolutely love to keep both. But with our cap situation, we may have to choose. If Buffalo is a franchise in need of a boost in popularity, maybe they offer Kaner 5/$45, and you just can't match that for what he brings to the table.

 

I like Toews better as well. But again, if Pittsburgh can keep Malkin and Crosby, the Blackhawks can keep Toews and Kane. They should lock them both up for 3-4 years this offseason.

[jaydee]

Yeah, if Kaner's just a one-sided player who can't be your core guy, then why would Buffalo toss him a truckload of cash anyway? Are you saying they're stupid?

 

Buffalo is not the type of team to go out and offer a guy like that a ton of cash either. Unless their management style changes.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Kane hate the day after he wins game 6 for us. Awesome! I can't wait for quant driven Buffalo to offer to overpay a 'cherry picker'....that will be the day. Funny how he was much more effective than Toews yesterday, even though Toews is so much further along physically. Just shows you how much more talent he has.

 

expletiveexpletiveexpletiveexpletiveexpletiveexpletiveexpletiveexpletive

 

It's *not* hate. It's NOT hate. I love Patrick Kane. My first child is being born in August, and I'm naming him after Patrick Kane.

 

But even on the best night of Kane's career, Toews was right there: Toews had 2 goals and an assist, won faceoffs, soaked up more ice time, and was on the ice for fewer Vancouver goals, hence his +2 vs. Kane's +1. And Toews didn't take a stupid penalty in the offensive zone because he can't control his stick, which Kane did and still does way too often.

 

It's not a perjorative to describe Kane as a cherrypicker. He's incredibly talented at it. But it's what he is. That's how he got his second goal, the wraparound. A bunch of guys go into the corner, he floated nearby hoping for a lucky bounce and got it, and had the quick hands to put it away like few players can. That's great! But sometimes he's not going to get the lucky bounce, and the fact that the Hawks are outnumbered in the corner will lead to a 3-on-2 the other way where Kane's guy puts home a rebound because Kane can't get back and lift his stick.

 

He is who he is, and if some team comes along wanting to pay for the flash and the excitement, then the Hawks just won't be able to match the deal and stay under the cap while keeping Seabrook, Keith, Toews, etc.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I like Toews better as well. But again, if Pittsburgh can keep Malkin and Crosby, the Blackhawks can keep Toews and Kane. They should lock them both up for 3-4 years this offseason.

 

Pittsburgh doesn't have Seabrook, let alone Keith or Campbell, to worry about as well. And Toews could probably compare reasonably with Malkin, but he doesn't belong in the conversation with Crosby and Kane belongs in the conversation with neither.

[manbearcub]

the salary cap is supposed to decrease in the next 2 years, so it will be tough. But, Havlat made 6 Mill and Khabibulin made 7 million this year, so there is some wiggle room right now.

[shnsajax]

Gretzky was 6'0" and a 185lbs.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

the salary cap is supposed to decrease in the next 2 years, so it will be tough. But, Havlat made 6 Mill and Khabibulin made 7 million this year, so there is some wiggle room right now.

 

That will help a lot. Ideally, we can keep Toews and Kane with that money freed up, and limit the tough decisions to the next tier of quality young players such as Versteeg and Cam Barker.

[jersey cubs fan]

I like Toews better as well. But again, if Pittsburgh can keep Malkin and Crosby, the Blackhawks can keep Toews and Kane. They should lock them both up for 3-4 years this offseason.

 

Pittsburgh doesn't have Seabrook, let alone Keith or Campbell, to worry about as well. And Toews could probably compare reasonably with Malkin, but he doesn't belong in the conversation with Crosby and Kane belongs in the conversation with neither.

 

That's half my point, Kane and Toews don't have to get paid the same as those two guys. And it's not like Pittsburgh doesn't have any high paid players.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Gretzky was 6'0" and a 185lbs.

 

1) Kane is not Gretzky.

 

2) Gretzky played in a different era. He was the perfect match of skill set to prevailing style of play and rules.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

That's half my point, Kane and Toews don't have to get paid the same as those two guys. And it's not like Pittsburgh doesn't have any high paid players.

 

IF you can keep Toews and Kane to reasonable contracts, then we're great.

 

But I see a young, flashy, American-born star with strong ties to another part of the country, I think it's reasonable to worry another team might overpay him.

[Soul]

That's half my point, Kane and Toews don't have to get paid the same as those two guys. And it's not like Pittsburgh doesn't have any high paid players.

 

IF you can keep Toews and Kane to reasonable contracts, then we're great.

 

But I see a young, flashy, American-born star with strong ties to another part of the country, I think it's reasonable to worry another team might overpay him.

 

You can never go home again, man :wink:

[jaydee]

Right now he can't do that stuff, but you're talking about basically a kid.

 

He's 20 years old, 5-10, and generously listed at 175 but is probably closer to 160.

 

Unless he grows four inches and adds 45 pounds of muscle, minimum, he's never going to be able to do those things.

 

Kane is who he is, a cherry-picking offensive threat. He's a wonderful guy to have, but he's not a core of a hockey team.

 

This is pretty ignorant. There is no way for him to develop physically or defensively? I don't ever expect him to be tough, but c'mon. Zetterberg is 5'11 185 lbs. Datsyuk 5'11 190. It is not impossible for a guy under 6 foot to be perfectly successfully in the new NHL on both of ends of the ice.

 

He is 20 years old, and has a lot of development to go through still. Defensive skills and the ability to get to the loose pick can be taught, there is plenty of time for him to learn. With his skating ability and hockey sense he should be able to pick it up.

 

This isn't 2000 when guys can clutch and grab you and size is what matters. Guys like Kane can and are succeeding in the NHL.

[jaydee]

Kane hate the day after he wins game 6 for us. Awesome! I can't wait for quant driven Buffalo to offer to overpay a 'cherry picker'....that will be the day. Funny how he was much more effective than Toews yesterday, even though Toews is so much further along physically. Just shows you how much more talent he has.

 

expletiveexpletiveexpletiveexpletiveexpletiveexpletiveexpletiveexpletive

 

It's *not* hate. It's NOT hate. I love Patrick Kane. My first child is being born in August, and I'm naming him after Patrick Kane.

 

But even on the best night of Kane's career, Toews was right there: Toews had 2 goals and an assist, won faceoffs, soaked up more ice time, and was on the ice for fewer Vancouver goals, hence his +2 vs. Kane's +1. And Toews didn't take a stupid penalty in the offensive zone because he can't control his stick, which Kane did and still does way too often.

 

It's not a perjorative to describe Kane as a cherrypicker. He's incredibly talented at it. But it's what he is. That's how he got his second goal, the wraparound. A bunch of guys go into the corner, he floated nearby hoping for a lucky bounce and got it, and had the quick hands to put it away like few players can. That's great! But sometimes he's not going to get the lucky bounce, and the fact that the Hawks are outnumbered in the corner will lead to a 3-on-2 the other way where Kane's guy puts home a rebound because Kane can't get back and lift his stick.

 

He is who he is, and if some team comes along wanting to pay for the flash and the excitement, then the Hawks just won't be able to match the deal and stay under the cap while keeping Seabrook, Keith, Toews, etc.

 

Awesome that you mention one of Kane's goals as him getting a lucky bounce...did you see Toews' goals? One was entirely luck.

 

And plus minus is meaningless. Beyond meaningless.

[manbearcub]

Looking at this: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/teams/Chi/roster

 

2.5 mil for Brent Sopel

2.1 mil for Kieth Carney

1.5 mil for Andre Zyuzen

 

I dont even know who they are (or their contract status), but seems like more we can get off the books.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

This is pretty ignorant. There is no way for him to develop physically or defensively?

 

The two guys you mentioned are both an inch taller and 20 pounds heavier than Kane as listed (30-35 pounds heavier than Kane in reality). Kane's body is not physically capable of putting on that much muscle and maintaining his skating speed.

 

Those two guys *never* had a minus season in the NHL. Kane has already had two.

 

AARRGGGGHH! to homer, myopic fans who want to argue such an obvious point and force me to point out Kane's flaws on a day like this

[jaydee]

Gretzky was 6'0" and a 185lbs.

 

1) Kane is not Gretzky.

 

2) Gretzky played in a different era. He was the perfect match of skill set to prevailing style of play and rules.

 

You realize size isn't that important in the NHL anymore right? The final four teams are all going to be smaller skilled groups most likely. The NHL is moving close to what it was when Gretzky played (thankfully).

[Hairyducked Idiot]

And plus minus is meaningless. Beyond meaningless.

 

So you think it is a coincidence that Kane is so often on the ice when the other team scores goals?

[jersey cubs fan]

That's half my point, Kane and Toews don't have to get paid the same as those two guys. And it's not like Pittsburgh doesn't have any high paid players.

 

IF you can keep Toews and Kane to reasonable contracts, then we're great.

 

But I see a young, flashy, American-born star with strong ties to another part of the country, I think it's reasonable to worry another team might overpay him.

 

He was born in Buffalo. Big freaking deal. He also played youth hockey in Michigan and London as well. Practically every player has strong ties to another team's city. Buffalo isn't even guaranteed to have a team for the longterm, and they can hardly afford to overpay anybody. Kane is building huge ties to Chicago right now. His marketing opportunities are skyrocketting in a city that is blowing away anything northwest NY has to offer in terms of passion for the team and its players.

 

It's like what everybody always said about Kerry Wood, he had just as much ties to Texas as Kane has to Buffalo. But when a guy starts getting praised as an athlete in Chicago, and starts celebrating with a Chicago girl or four, he, more often than not, ends up staying.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You realize size isn't that important in the NHL anymore right? The final four teams are all going to be smaller skilled groups most likely. The NHL is moving close to what it was when Gretzky played (thankfully).

 

Two posts after you called my post ignorant, this is hilarious.

 

This isn't the the neutral-zone trap, clutch-and-grab NHL, and it isn't Gretzky's era. It's something in between. Size, speed and skill all matter. Or do you not think Byfuglien and Eager were important for the Hawks in these two series?