Tribune: Wood Signs Deal with Cleveland (p. 29)

[David]

What exactly are the options when a player does accept arby and the team doesn't want him?

 

I don't recall all the details of the Walker drama with San Diego.

[Guest]

awww, crap.

 

I really wanted those picks.

 

Or Woody back for one more year.

[17 Seconds]

Is it possible that the Cubs doctors know something we don't about Wood's arm? Remember, it was only a year and a half ago that he almost gave up on baseball completely. Then "miraculously" his arm felt better.

 

I can't blame them for not wanting any risk of having to pay him $8M+ if that's the case, especially considering the circumstances.

 

 

The question that would leave is why even bring him back last year, then? But who knows what may have presented itself this season.

 

You know that people are mad about losing the picks and not mad about losing the chance of Wood accepting arbitration, right?

 

Not chance. Risk.

 

That's not my point. It sounded like you thought people were mad because they wanted Wood back when they're mad about losing the draft picks

[cubsfan26]

If you can't find a way to ditch $8m for this season on the off chance that no one else signs him, then you suck as a GM and should be fired for a utter lack of creativity.

 

You could non tender like 3 guys and go cheap one other place and come up with most of this. Assuming you'd even need to.

 

It's just bad business management.

 

 

I don't think you realize that Hendry is cutting back in the bullpen and trying to be creative so he can upgrade the line-up and possibly the rotation. For years people bashed Hendry for investing too much money in the pen. Now some want him fired because he wouldn't spend 3-5m more on the pen with having Wood over Gregg. This is a bad move, because I don't think Wood would have accepted arbitration, but there was no way I wanted Wood back with Gregg already on the roster. There's only so much money to around, and no more needs to be spent on the bullpen.

[Guest]

If you can't find a way to ditch $8m for this season on the off chance that no one else signs him, then you suck as a GM and should be fired for a utter lack of creativity.

 

You could non tender like 3 guys and go cheap one other place and come up with most of this. Assuming you'd even need to.

 

It's just bad business management.

 

 

I don't think you realize that Hendry is cutting back in the bullpen and trying to be creative so he can upgrade the line-up and possibly the rotation. For years people bashed Hendry for investing too much money in the pen. Now some want him fired because he wouldn't spend 3-5m more on the pen with having Wood over Gregg. This is a bad move, because I don't think Wood would have accepted arbitration, but there was no way I wanted Wood back with Gregg already on the roster. There's only so much money to around, and no more needs to be spent on the bullpen.

If Wood accepted, you could either non-tender Gregg on the 12th to ditch his salary or trade him to another team. That's a really easy problem to solve.

[David]

I thought he was saying that the Cubs might need to be pinching pennies right now and that $3M or whatever difference between Wood and Gregg could be crucial in terms of other moves in more important areas of the team...

 

I'm not sure how legit that is or not... ?

[Clem Fandango]

If you can't find a way to ditch $8m for this season on the off chance that no one else signs him, then you suck as a GM and should be fired for a utter lack of creativity.

 

You could non tender like 3 guys and go cheap one other place and come up with most of this. Assuming you'd even need to.

 

It's just bad business management.

 

 

I don't think you realize that Hendry is cutting back in the bullpen and trying to be creative so he can upgrade the line-up and possibly the rotation. For years people bashed Hendry for investing too much money in the pen. Now some want him fired because he wouldn't spend 3-5m more on the pen with having Wood over Gregg. This is a bad move, because I don't think Wood would have accepted arbitration, but there was no way I wanted Wood back with Gregg already on the roster. There's only so much money to around, and no more needs to be spent on the bullpen.

 

That's a decent point to be made, but if he didn't trade for Gregg he could've just kept Wood instead. Trading for Gregg meant the Cubs wouldn't be able to afford both Gregg and Wood. Not trading for Gregg meant the Cubs could afford to at least offer him a reasonable contract, but it would appear that regardless of all that it was Hendry's intention from the get go to let him walk. Not offering arbitration was probably Hendry's way of ensuring he has money to spend elsewhere, however like others have said, if he really knew him well then wouldn't he know if he were going to accept arbitration or not?

 

He should've offered it to him anyway. We could've used those draft picks at the very least.

 

Now if he offers Howry arbitration and Howry accepts it I'm going to hunt Hendry down and kick him in the face with a golf shoe

 

EDIT: He didn't offer Howry arbitration.

Edited December 2, 2008 by The Logan

[SouthSideRyan]

I thought he was saying that the Cubs might need to be pinching pennies right now and that $3M or whatever difference between Wood and Gregg could be crucial in terms of other moves in more important areas of the team...

 

I'm not sure how legit that is or not... ?

 

When Hendry signs a veteran arm to fill out the pen it will be proven as not.

[cubsfan26]

If you can't find a way to ditch $8m for this season on the off chance that no one else signs him, then you suck as a GM and should be fired for a utter lack of creativity.

 

You could non tender like 3 guys and go cheap one other place and come up with most of this. Assuming you'd even need to.

 

It's just bad business management.

 

 

I don't think you realize that Hendry is cutting back in the bullpen and trying to be creative so he can upgrade the line-up and possibly the rotation. For years people bashed Hendry for investing too much money in the pen. Now some want him fired because he wouldn't spend 3-5m more on the pen with having Wood over Gregg. This is a bad move, because I don't think Wood would have accepted arbitration, but there was no way I wanted Wood back with Gregg already on the roster. There's only so much money to around, and no more needs to be spent on the bullpen.

If Wood accepted, you could either non-tender Gregg on the 12th to ditch his salary or trade him to another team. That's a really easy problem to solve.

 

 

There's no way we would nontender Gregg after just trading Ceda to get him. We could trade Gregg, and keep Wood, but that will also cost potentially 3-5m more. The way I look at it is the combo of dumping a chunk of Marquis salary and that 3-5m could fit Peavy or a good hitting RF in our budget for 09. I think the impact of Peavy over Marquis or Bradley/Abreu/Ibanez over Hoffpauir/Fontenot in RF is greater. Then having an inning of Wood for 60-70 games instead of Kevin Gregg.

Edited December 2, 2008 by cubsfan26

[Balsa]

What exactly are the options when a player does accept arby and the team doesn't want him?

 

I don't recall all the details of the Walker drama with San Diego.

The team is stuck.

 

I beleive Maddux did this with Atlanta.

[SouthSideRyan]

What exactly are the options when a player does accept arby and the team doesn't want him?

 

I don't recall all the details of the Walker drama with San Diego.

The team is stuck.

 

I beleive Maddux did this with Atlanta.

 

Leading to the Braves having to trade away Millwood. In our case, we'd have to trade away the irreplaceable Kevin Gregg.

[Guancous]

I was bummed until I read this Tribune article that made me laugh out loud. I thought it was the Onion for a second. Check out the headline:

Reds' Dusty Baker wants to manage Kerry Wood again

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-02-mitchelldec02,0,7758848.column

Edited December 2, 2008 by Guancous

[cubsfan26]

What exactly are the options when a player does accept arby and the team doesn't want him?

 

I don't recall all the details of the Walker drama with San Diego.

The team is stuck.

 

I beleive Maddux did this with Atlanta.

 

Leading to the Braves having to trade away Millwood. In our case, we'd have to trade away the irreplaceable Kevin Gregg.

 

But it also makes it very very tough to get a good RF and Peavy. Gregg could potentially only make 4-4.5m next year, Wood could make as much as 9m or higher. Yes it could work out were Gregg makes 4 or 5m and Wood makes 7 or 8m. But there's also a very good chance that there's a 4-5m difference between the two next year, and thats a good chunk of money that could stop us from adding a good player. The only thing that upsets me about this is not getting the draft picks.(I don't think Wood accepts arbitration) Because I feel that money saved from Gregg and Wood could be used in better ways.

[Clem Fandango]

I was bummed until I read this Tribune article that made me laugh out loud. I thought it was the Onion for a second. Check out the headline:

Reds' Dusty Baker wants to manage Kerry Wood again

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-02-mitchelldec02,0,7758848.column

 

2 things from that...

 

"We have a closer already in [ Francisco] Cordero, who we have under contract for a few more years," Baker said Monday. "But somebody can use Kerry Wood. I am going to call him. I like Kerry Wood as a person, not just as a ballplayer, but as a person. I will give him a call and see what's up."

 

So you don't like him as a ballplayer but you want him on your team because you think he's cool? That's a good way of communicating to him that his services are wanted in your bullpen

 

There has been speculation that Cubs manager Lou Piniella became exasperated with Wood last season when he missed about a month with a blister on his right hand.

 

1) Is this true, because I don't remember seeing this

2) If this is true, could this be the reason Wood was not offered a contract or arbitration

3) If that is the case, Lou just made my ish list... at least for the time being

[David]

What exactly are the options when a player does accept arby and the team doesn't want him?

 

I don't recall all the details of the Walker drama with San Diego.

The team is stuck.

 

I beleive Maddux did this with Atlanta.

 

Leading to the Braves having to trade away Millwood. In our case, we'd have to trade away the irreplaceable Kevin Gregg.

 

The reason I asked was because of this post:

Even if the hypothesis of imminent shoulder explosion is accurate, it doesn't mean we still couldn't offer arbitration, and then back out like San Diego did with Todd Walker.

 

In order for the imminent injury hypo to be valid, you have to assume:

 

-Wood wouldn't get signed elsewhere

-Wood accepts said arbitration

-We couldn't find $8m in the budget somewhere

-We couldn't back out.

 

It's a crap theory that's too littered with unlikely what-if's to be plausible.

 

How do we back out?

 

As for the point before that, I'd rather not find money in the budget for Wood. I'd rather find all the money possible to accommodate a trade for Peavy and a bat in RF. I realize that I'm presenting a false choice there to some extent, but I think that might very well be the choice at hand, given what we're starting to hear about payroll and the possibility that money is a factor in the Peavy discussions (my guess is we're trying to find a way to dump off Marquis but that's a separate discussion) right now and the economic situation and all that crap.

 

The point that the whole Wood's shoulder theory may be a bit far-fetched is valid.

[davearm2]

I seem to recall a time when many intelligent, clear-thinking, saber-savvy folks posted here.

 

These folks would often argue quite convincingly that unless perhaps you're the NYY and can sustain a $200M payroll, then spending $10M on a closer is a poor allocation of resources.

 

Now here we have our GM applying that very same logic by essentially saying, "we're not going to run the risk of having to spend $10M on a reliever, especially not when money's already tight and we've got two other higher priorities (SP and RF) left to address," and people are going ape#$%& on him.

 

How about we just be thankful that Kerry Wood pitched so well for us last year that he's priced himself out of what good GMs pay for players in his role?

[SouthSideRyan]

There has been speculation that Cubs manager Lou Piniella became exasperated with Wood last season when he missed about a month with a blister on his right hand.

 

I also mentioned this, that Lou and Hendry were throwing a hissy fit about Kerry's blister and wanted nothing to do with him. I really hate being right all the time

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I seem to recall a time when many intelligent, clear-thinking, saber-savvy folks posted here.

 

These folks would often argue quite convincingly that unless perhaps you're the NYY and can sustain a $200M payroll, then spending $10M on a closer is a poor allocation of resources.

 

Now here we have our GM applying that very same logic by essentially saying, "we're not going to run the risk of having to spend $10M on a reliever, especially not when money's already tight and we've got two other higher priorities (SP and RF) left to address," and people are going ape#$%& on him.

 

How about we just be thankful that Kerry Wood pitched so well for us last year that he's priced himself out of what good GMs pay for players in his role?

 

This all works if you ignore the two draft picks on the table, and the cost we are paying for Gregg (and that he probably wouldn't have gotten $10 million in arbitration).

[David]

I seem to recall a time when many intelligent, clear-thinking, saber-savvy folks posted here.

 

These folks would often argue quite convincingly that unless perhaps you're the NYY and can sustain a $200M payroll, then spending $10M on a closer is a poor allocation of resources.

 

Now here we have our GM applying that very same logic by essentially saying, "we're not going to run the risk of having to spend $10M on a reliever, especially not when money's already tight and we've got two other higher priorities (SP and RF) left to address," and people are going ape#$%& on him.

 

How about we just be thankful that Kerry Wood pitched so well for us last year that he's priced himself out of what good GMs pay for players in his role?

 

:werd:

[davearm2]

How do we back out?

 

As for the point before that, I'd rather not find money in the budget for Wood. I'd rather find all the money possible to accommodate a trade for Peavy and a bat in RF. I realize that I'm presenting a false choice there to some extent, but I think that might very well be the choice at hand, given what we're starting to hear about payroll and the possibility that money is a factor in the Peavy discussions (my guess is we're trying to find a way to dump off Marquis but that's a separate discussion) right now and the economic situation and all that crap.

 

The point that the whole Wood's shoulder theory may be a bit far-fetched is valid.

Thanks for the voice of reason.

 

I don't think that's a false choice whatsoever. I think it's absolutely dead on, actually. All appearances suggest that the Cubs can afford only one additional player in the $10M range.

 

That makes it Peavy OR rightfielder OR Wood OR Brian Roberts OR (fill in the blank). And IMO the above already factors in recouping say $6M on Marquis.

 

If you want two of the above, then you'll have to find a way to dump Derrek Lee and his NTC.

 

So in a very real sense, retaining Kerry Wood would indeed have precluded all of the other potential impact adds.

[imb]

what the hell

[davearm2]

I seem to recall a time when many intelligent, clear-thinking, saber-savvy folks posted here.

 

These folks would often argue quite convincingly that unless perhaps you're the NYY and can sustain a $200M payroll, then spending $10M on a closer is a poor allocation of resources.

 

Now here we have our GM applying that very same logic by essentially saying, "we're not going to run the risk of having to spend $10M on a reliever, especially not when money's already tight and we've got two other higher priorities (SP and RF) left to address," and people are going ape#$%& on him.

 

How about we just be thankful that Kerry Wood pitched so well for us last year that he's priced himself out of what good GMs pay for players in his role?

 

This all works if you ignore the two draft picks on the table, and the cost we are paying for Gregg (and that he probably wouldn't have gotten $10 million in arbitration).

I'm not ignoring the picks.

 

I simply realize that the upside of the picks is overshadowed by the downside of leaving other more pressing needs unaddressed because you had no money left after Wood accepted arb.

[ChiCubsFan]

I seem to recall a time when many intelligent, clear-thinking, saber-savvy folks posted here.

 

These folks would often argue quite convincingly that unless perhaps you're the NYY and can sustain a $200M payroll, then spending $10M on a closer is a poor allocation of resources.

 

Now here we have our GM applying that very same logic by essentially saying, "we're not going to run the risk of having to spend $10M on a reliever, especially not when money's already tight and we've got two other higher priorities (SP and RF) left to address," and people are going ape#$%& on him.

 

How about we just be thankful that Kerry Wood pitched so well for us last year that he's priced himself out of what good GMs pay for players in his role?

 

This all works if you ignore the two draft picks on the table, and the cost we are paying for Gregg (and that he probably wouldn't have gotten $10 million in arbitration).

 

You are ignoring the fact that Wood could have accepted. The difference between Wood and Gregg could be about $5M and that $5M may be needed to add Peavy and/or a RF.

 

Now I know that's a lot of could haves, but who knows? I'm certain that Hendry has a better idea than you do.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

 

You are ignoring the fact that Wood could have accepted. The difference between Wood and Gregg could be about $5M and that $5M may be needed to add Peavy and/or a RF.

 

Now I know that's a lot of could haves, but who knows? I'm certain that Hendry has a better idea than you do.

 

If Hendry doesn't have a contingency plan to come up with $5 million in an unlikely scenario at this point in the offseason, he is much worse at his job than almost anyone on here suspects.

[Guest]

People are letting their emotional attachment to Wood multiply their reaction to this situation a good amount.

 

I would be pissed if this was Dempster too. I don't care who it is, the Wood returning to the Cubs ship sailed a while ago.

 

Those picks are far more valuable than the risk that Wood can't get a better contract than 1/~$8M. Josh Donaldson was one of the centerpieces of the Harden trade. The Cubs got him for Juan Pierre taking his services to LA.

 

It's not like there is a strong farm system down there that the Cubs can purge for midseason trades.