4/15 - Bulls (41-40) vs. Toronto (32-49) - 7 pm, CSN

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

The Heat will not offer Michael Beasley for Amare that would be idiotic. Beasley could be just as good as Amare in the next few years.

 

I don't see the Blazers making a move for Amare either.

I'm quite sure Beasley will never be able to hold Amare's jock..ever. They are not even similar players.

[Guest]

oh well, it's for the best

 

How is it for the best? So we can pick Chase Budinger next June? Yay?

 

at least we have a shot at getting somebody good. it worked out pretty well last year. what is the upside of winning at this point? what chance is there of something good coming out of it? sneaking in the playoffs and getting embarrassed by boston/cleveland/orlando? sounds fun.

 

Well I wouldn't count on making a huge move in the lottery. Last year was an aberration, obviously.

 

I'd rather make it as a low seed and get waxed by a powerhouse then draft at the bottom of the lottery. At least Rose would get a taste of playoff basketball.

 

And you can find talent at the cusp of the lottery (Granger, Stuckey). I don't care much about the lottery in a weak draft unless the Bulls get in the top 3 and that's just so unlikely.

[UMFan83]

oh well, it's for the best

 

How is it for the best? So we can pick Chase Budinger next June? Yay?

 

at least we have a shot at getting somebody good. it worked out pretty well last year. what is the upside of winning at this point? what chance is there of something good coming out of it? sneaking in the playoffs and getting embarrassed by boston/cleveland/orlando? sounds fun.

 

Well I wouldn't count on making a huge move in the lottery. Last year was an aberration, obviously.

 

I'd rather make it as a low seed and get waxed by a powerhouse then draft at the bottom of the lottery. At least Rose would get a taste of playoff basketball.

 

I guess that's where we differ. I'm interested in winning a championship or at least going deep into the playoffs and having something to get excited for. That team is going to offer neither or those things this year. I mean, how fun were the playoffs for the Cubs the last 2 years?

 

I'm not saying they'd luck out into a top pick.... they wouldn't have to. Any lottery pick would bring us closer to winning a championship than a meaningless playoff appearance.

 

You make it seem like the Bulls don't get a draft pick if they make the playoffs. If they squeeze in as a low seed the pick will only be marginally higher than what they would get as a playoff team.

 

I'm not talking about a speicific threshold that I want them to avoid. Making the playoffs was just an example of the best case scenario for this season and the most we could realistically hope. Obviously if it was between he 8 seed and 9 seed I'd choose the 8 seed. I'm saying I'd rather tank at this point than play like .500. If we're gonna suck, let's at least maximize what we get for sucking.

 

There is no point in cheering for this team to tank. They have already won too many games and have too talented of a team to be bad enough to have even a decent shot at a high pick in a very shallow draft. So whats the point? I'm not interested in investing more time into developing another project (like Tyrus), and I'm definitely not interested in adding yet another flawed role player to the team (like Thabo/Noah). Sure if you said "You can either have Blake Griffin or make the playoffs and get demolished by Boston", I'd choose the former. But the chances of a draft pick bringing anything we can use long term is minimal. I'd rather cheer for this team to win and make the playoffs because that means players like Rose and Tyrus and Noah are playing better and give us a better idea of where we can improve in the offseason.

[SpongeWorthy]

^Yep.

 

Plus tanking would come along with a certain devaluation of tradeable assets (e.g. Noah and Thomas). Right now, their values are on the upswing and either they become good players that we can use to build around or something we can move for a true difference maker like Amare.

 

Outside of that, I would liken it to a marginal team making a bowl game (with the obvious caveat that you don't gain anything by missing a bowl game like you do by missing the NBA playoffs). Those extra practices and games can't hurt a teams development, especially one where the franchise player is a rookie PG.

[wolf stansson]

It's hard to build a good NBA team. The draft is often a crap shoot, free agency is only slightly less a crap shoot and for the most part the only players that ever get traded are crap. Occasionally you'll get the star who hates it where he is and you can get him, but that is rare.

 

The one thing that is certain, being a borderline playoff team and picking after the 10 spot is NBA hell and will get you nowhere.

[jmajew]

I have been thinking a lot about this possible Amare Stoudemire trade and for some reason I'm not a big lover of it. I think a big part of the reason we have been playing better is because of the interior defense provided by Thomas and Noah. Amare plays no defense and because we would have to trade either or both of Thomas or Noah to get Amare, I am uncertain how much he would improve our team overall.

 

With that said I think Paxson needs to do something bold and Amare is the best player available. I just don't think he is worth more than Gooden and Thomas/Noah and cap filler.

[wolf stansson]

Lets get some perspective on Tyrus and Noah's little hot streak here.

 

In the last 6 games, they have played well, but the teams they have played have been complete garbage. Phoenix - Noah did nothing, Shaq threw him around like a rag doll all night and Stoudemire couldn't have been less interested in guarding Tyrus. Sacramento - Jason Thompson and John Salmon, that says it all. Clippers - Al Thornton and Brian Skinner, says it all. New Orleans - Hilton Armstrong and David West. Houston - Yao destroyed Noah. Dallas - they play no D.

 

So the obvious point here is, yeah it's cool they've been playing well but it's been a tiny sample size against bad players on bad teams.

 

Basically individual defense is often overrated and a motivated, happy Stoudemire is still better than Thomas and Noah combined.

[jmajew]

Lets get some perspective on Tyrus and Noah's little hot streak here.

 

In the last 6 games, they have played well, but the teams they have played have been complete garbage. Phoenix - Noah did nothing, Shaq threw him around like a rag doll all night and Stoudemire couldn't have been less interested in guarding Tyrus. Sacramento - Jason Thompson and John Salmon, that says it all. Clippers - Al Thornton and Brian Skinner, says it all. New Orleans - Hilton Armstrong and David West. Houston - Yao destroyed Noah. Dallas - they play no D.

 

So the obvious point here is, yeah it's cool they've been playing well but it's been a tiny sample size against bad players on bad teams.

 

Basically individual defense is often overrated and a motivated, happy Stoudemire is still better than Thomas and Noah combined.

 

Yes Noah got his butt handed to him by Yao and Shaq, two of the best big men in the league. I think being better than the lesser talent is a good thing. Also your point about Stoudemire not being interested in guarding Thomas the other night is a huge flaw and one that would concern me. If Tyrus is such a lesser talent than Amare he should have shut him down but he didn't. Do you want that to happen on a consistent basis.

 

I didn't say don't trade them for him. I said be careful because interior defense is exceptionally important. The best teams in the leauge all have good interior defense. Boston, San Antonio, Detroit did, Orlando, Cleveland, Houston, etc. If we get Amare we better go out and get someone like either Joel Pryzbilla or Marcus Camby. Otherwise Stoudemire will be for not. Rose, Amare, and Deng will be who we build this team around. Hopefully Gordon would be included then because he would be another great compliment to Amare. The question is who do you put next to Amare. Noah is the best in house option in my mind. Which is why I don't want to trade both of them. A lineup of Noah, Amare, Deng, Gordon, Rose is pretty good.

[Derwood]

to be fair, Shaq and Yao are both like 3 times bigger than Noah

[UMFan83]

I just see that Tyrus's scoring and rebounding numbers have gone up every month this year. I'm not saying Tyrus is or will ever be a star, and I'm not saying don't trade for Amare (although jmajew is 100% correct about interior D, although its not impossible to add a defensive center to play alongside Amare), but Tyrus is starting to prove that he can end up being a solid NBA starting forward.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

David Shooster reported ealier on 670 the Score that "supposedly" Paxson is itching to pull the trigger on a deal.

 

We shall see.

[Derwood]

David Shooster reported ealier on 670 the Score that "supposedly" Paxson is itching to pull the trigger on a deal.

 

We shall see.

 

what's the actual deal at this point?

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

I beileve Tyrus Thomas and Gooden are in for sure. Tyrus because of his upside and Gooden because of his contract. There will be others thrown in to for salary concerns..I'm sure..Thabo, Noah...etc.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

rofl, believe it or not...some people on the realgm board are "opposed" to giving up both TT and Noah

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=879391&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=75

We cant give up all three bigs, to me its going to have to be either Ty or Noah not both

 

That is too funny. Listen, I realize both these young guys have shown some potential of late...BUT THIS IS AMARE FREAKIN STOUDEMIRE! Are poeple insane? You give up whatever(minus Rose) to get Amare here..and then go from there..go sign some big guys from the D-League for all I care. Are people insane?

[jmajew]

rofl, believe it or not...some people on the realgm board are "opposed" to giving up both TT and Noah

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=879391&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=75

We cant give up all three bigs, to me its going to have to be either Ty or Noah not both

 

That is too funny. Listen, I realize both these young guys have shown some potential of late...BUT THIS IS AMARE FREAKIN STOUDEMIRE! Are poeple insane? You give up whatever(minus Rose) to get Amare here..and then go from there..go sign some big guys from the D-League for all I care. Are people insane?

 

I have already come out saying I oppose giving up both Thomas and Noah to get Amare. The only way I would not protest that would be if we trade Nocioni for a decent big man like Joel Pryzbilla to pair with Amare. I'd be very content with a lineup of Pryzbilla, Amare, Deng, Gordon, Rose. Our bench would be left pretty weak but we could draft a ready for the pros player and then sign a solid midlevel exception. So we can have a bench of Gray, Hinrich, Sefolosha, 1st rd pick, and mid level.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

rofl, believe it or not...some people on the realgm board are "opposed" to giving up both TT and Noah

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=879391&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=75

We cant give up all three bigs, to me its going to have to be either Ty or Noah not both

 

That is too funny. Listen, I realize both these young guys have shown some potential of late...BUT THIS IS AMARE FREAKIN STOUDEMIRE! Are poeple insane? You give up whatever(minus Rose) to get Amare here..and then go from there..go sign some big guys from the D-League for all I care. Are people insane?

 

I have already come out saying I oppose giving up both Thomas and Noah to get Amare.

You are insane, I'm sorry...that is just baffling. Rose+Amare+the Chicago area YMCA is probably enough to contend in the east right now.

[Derwood]

I think you're overstating Rose's value at this point.

[jmajew]

rofl, believe it or not...some people on the realgm board are "opposed" to giving up both TT and Noah

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=879391&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=75

We cant give up all three bigs, to me its going to have to be either Ty or Noah not both

 

That is too funny. Listen, I realize both these young guys have shown some potential of late...BUT THIS IS AMARE FREAKIN STOUDEMIRE! Are poeple insane? You give up whatever(minus Rose) to get Amare here..and then go from there..go sign some big guys from the D-League for all I care. Are people insane?

 

I have already come out saying I oppose giving up both Thomas and Noah to get Amare.

You are insane, I'm sorry...that is just baffling. Rose+Amare+the Chicago area YMCA is probably enough to contend in the east right now.

 

I'm opposed because it weakens our interior defense and a guy like Noah will get paid 8 million a year, if he plays like he has the last month. I feel Noah is a cheaper/equal alternative to trading for someone like Pryzbilla who makes almost 7 mil a year. My logic isn't that it is too much for Amare but rather it would be detrimental to our team to have to trade Nocioni or someone else for another decent big. If we can just trade Gooden, Cedric Simmons, and 1st rd pick i'd be happier. Our lineup would then be Noah, Amare, Deng, Gordon, Rose. With a bench of Hinrich, Sefolosha, Nocioni, Gray. Which is much better than a lineup of Pryzbilla, Amare, Deng, Gordon, Rose and a bench of Hinrich, Sefolosha, Gray.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Our interior defense is already one of the worst in the NBA so I'm failing to grasp the concept here. Holding on to either Noah or TT isn't going to solve that.

[UMFan83]

Yeah, I agree with the concept, but I would give up Thomas and Noah for Amare. We aren't really playing for this year anyways. But I'd have to take a long look at how many above average interior defenders there are in the NBA before deciding for sure. There doesn't seem to be too many, and its almost a requirement if Amare is your PF.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

I could understand be hesitant about giving up TT, because he has the potential still be special in this league. But Noah? Come on now.....You could troll the NBA D league for a similar piece..big, high energy guy..etc. A guy like Courtney Sims is a perfect example.

 

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=courtney_sims

[jmajew]

I could understand be hesitant about giving up TT, because he has the potential still be special in this league. But Noah? Come on now.....You could troll the NBA D league for a similar piece..big, high energy guy..etc. A guy like Courtney Sims is a perfect example.

 

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=courtney_sims

 

Noah is not a star yes I agree to that. But lets not forget someone like Dasagana Diop makes 5.5 mil a year, Joel Pryzbilla 6.5 mil a year, and Mark Blount 8 mil a year respectively. That is crazy. We can have someone like Noah who is probably equal to but most likely better than those 3 makin 3 mil a year. If we trade Gooden, Thomas, and Noah for Stoudemire that would mean our 2009-2010 salaries add up to 62 mil for 7 players. Hinrich, Rose, Nocioni, Hughes, Stoudemire, Sefolosha, and Deng. If we resign Gordon probably around 70 mil on 8 players. That is what scares me. I don't think Amare puts us over the top and I don't know what other pieces we will have other than Hughes expiring contract and our 1st rd pick next year. If we have those 8 players we will have to find a way shore up our interior D.

[SpongeWorthy]

I think the Suns would be more interested in Thabo than Noah. I'd give up either in conjunction with Tyrus/Gooden but I'd like the keep Noah if at all possible. If we get Amare he can truly focus on being a defender and rebounder.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

I could understand be hesitant about giving up TT, because he has the potential still be special in this league. But Noah? Come on now.....You could troll the NBA D league for a similar piece..big, high energy guy..etc. A guy like Courtney Sims is a perfect example.

 

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=courtney_sims

 

Noah is not a star yes I agree to that. But lets not forget someone like Dasagana Diop makes 5.5 mil a year, Joel Pryzbilla 6.5 mil a year, and Mark Blount 8 mil a year respectively. That is crazy. We can have someone like Noah who is probably equal to but most likely better than those 3 makin 3 mil a year. If we trade Gooden, Thomas, and Noah for Stoudemire that would mean our 2009-2010 salaries add up to 62 mil for 7 players. Hinrich, Rose, Nocioni, Hughes, Stoudemire, Sefolosha, and Deng. If we resign Gordon probably around 70 mil on 8 players. That is what scares me. I don't think Amare puts us over the top and I don't know what other pieces we will have other than Hughes expiring contract and our 1st rd pick next year. If we have those 8 players we will have to find a way shore up our interior D.

 

Ben Gordon is not resigning with the Bulls. And again, our interior D is terrible as is. Even if this trade doesn't go down, the interior D issue still must be addressed. So I don't understand the fear of giving up everythign minus Rose to get Amare. Yeah, our interior D would suck..just like right now..but we would have one of the most dynamic combo's in the NBA. Don't forget the Bulls own the right to Omer Asik.

[David]

Was it Jerry West that basically said that in basketball, you shouldn't worry about "overpaying" if you're getting the guy you want?

 

In basketball, the difference between being great or being bad really is about one or two players.

 

I'm not advocating giving people up just to give them up, obviously, but I'd give up whatever it took short of Rose to get Amare. Big men who would pair so perfectly with our young PG don't come available too often. He's one of the most efficient scorers in the game and a beast on the pick and roll. The only reason his numbers are down this year (aside from the "dogging" in recent games tha that has been well documented) is the fact that they're pick and popping him a lot more with Shaq in the way.