Marshall to start Tuesday, Harden Thursday

[inari]

Z will not be happy if he's not the starter in game one.

[chuckywang]

Our chances of winning Tuesday just went way down. Then again, if Marshall were to beat Santana, I wouldn't want to be around any Mets fans the next day.

[splintersag]

Z will not be happy if he's not the starter in game one.

 

He doesn't want to, he wants to start Game 3.

 

Dempster, Harden, Z, and Lilly sounds good to me.

[Peoriaman]

Z will not be happy if he's not the starter in game one.

 

He doesn't want to, he wants to start Game 3.

 

Dempster, Harden, Z, and Lilly sounds good to me.

 

Trib says this is the rotation. Harden says he feels great, by the way. The best he has felt this late in the season.

[Banedon]

Sun Times thinks it's Dempster, Lilly, Zambrano, Harden, to which I laugh. Holding Harden until game 4 would be a huge mistake.

[Tracer Bullet]

Sun Times thinks it's Dempster, Lilly, Zambrano, Harden, to which I laugh. Holding Harden until game 4 would be a huge mistake.

 

That would be stupid unless we think we're going to win in 3 and want Harden to start G1 of the NLCS. Personally, I'd start Harden in G1 so you can start him to close out the NLDS (if necessary) or start G1 of the NLCS. If Dempster is going first, I'd at least switch Harden and Lilly.

[Old Style]

Our chances of winning Tuesday just went way down. Then again, if Marshall were to beat Santana, I wouldn't want to be around any Mets fans the next day.

When would you ever want to be around Mets fans?

[SouthSideRyan]

Our chances of winning Tuesday just went way down. Then again, if Marshall were to beat Santana, I wouldn't want to be around any Mets fans the next day.

When would you ever want to be around Mets fans?

 

To make yourself more attractive by comparison?

[SouthSideRyan]

And it should be Harden-Dempster-Z-Lilly. Harden's the best starter on the team and it isn't particularly close. That's not a knock on Z or Dempster, Harden's just ridiculously good.

[C.C.]

Trib has it as

 

Dempster, Harden, Zambrano.

[YearofDaCubs]

Trib has it as

 

Dempster, Harden, Zambrano.

If that's true then why did they modify their rotation for the rest of the regular season to be:

 

Marquis

Marshall

Zambrano

Harden

Dempster

Lilly

Marquis/Marshall

[Warren Brusstar]

If the Mets are the first-round opponent, I think Dempster as anchor is a huge mistake. Has Lou forgotten that Dempster's two worst outings last year were against the Mets?

[Peoriaman]

Trib has it as

 

Dempster, Harden, Zambrano.

If that's true then why did they modify their rotation for the rest of the regular season to be:

 

Marquis

Marshall

Zambrano

Harden

Dempster

Lilly

Marquis/Marshall

 

They want Harden off regular rest.

[jersey cubs fan]

If the Mets are the first-round opponent, I think Dempster as anchor is a huge mistake. Has Lou forgotten that Dempster's two worst outings last year were against the Mets?

 

As a reliever. Dempster 2008 has been nothing like Dempster 2007.

 

I want it to be Harden, Dempster, Zambrano, Lilly, Harden. But Dempster 1 and 5 is the 2nd best option.

[Warren Brusstar]

Trib has it as

 

Dempster, Harden, Zambrano.

If that's true then why did they modify their rotation for the rest of the regular season to be:

 

Marquis

Marshall

Zambrano

Harden

Dempster

Lilly

Marquis/Marshall

 

I think that's right and I have no idea why Phil Rogers thinks that's setting up to be Dempster in Game 1. If he has inside information, great. But if he's using that order to read the tea leaves, doesn't it suggest Z/Harden/Dempster/Lilly?

[jersey cubs fan]

Trib has it as

 

Dempster, Harden, Zambrano.

If that's true then why did they modify their rotation for the rest of the regular season to be:

 

Marquis

Marshall

Zambrano

Harden

Dempster

Lilly

Marquis/Marshall

 

I think that's right and I have no idea why Phil Rogers thinks that's setting up to be Dempster in Game 1. If he has inside information, great. But if he's using that order to read the tea leaves, doesn't it suggest Z/Harden/Dempster/Lilly?

 

Lou has talked about getting Zambrano a lot of work between now and the playoffs, since he hasn't pitched much. He's insinuated that Zambrano will not pitch game 1 becauase of his lack of innings in September and his inconsistency. This rotation would allow Zambrano to throw a simulated game or other workout on the Monday after the season and then pitch game 3 on somewhat "normal" rest. If Dempster throws Friday, then his normal rest would have him pitching Wednesday, Game 1.

[Andy]

Harden and Z have both been better on extended rest while Dempster has shown no real difference either way. So it makes sense that they'd pitch Demp on normal rest and give the 'aces' extra days.

[jersey cubs fan]

This is Paul Sullivan's take:

Lou Piniella told the media the other day: "I wish you all would put the uniform for a day and have the life of a manager for a day." I'm willing to do it for one day if I can also get Lou's salary. Since that's not going to happen, as least I can speculate on how it should be. And though it's all just speculation now, Lilly and Ryan Dempster have been their most consistent starters of late, and by that I mean guys you can count on to go seven or more innings if necessary. Harden has been great, but he's a five or six inning pitcher, until proven otherwise. Carlos Zambrano should be the ace, and when his head is in the game, he's shown he can be. But right now he's a question mark. If I had to pick the rotation today, I'd go with Dempster and Lilly in Games 1 and 2, Zambrano in Game 3 and Harden in Game 4. You don't want to overuse your bullpen early, so Harden is a good fit for Game 4. Zambrano should be smart enough to realize the other two deserve to start before him, based on their recent performances. If not, then just deal with it.

 

I don't understand how anybody can justify saying Lilly deserves the 2nd start because he consistently goes 7, when his ERA is over 4, he actually averages barely over 6 innings, he's given up 4 ER and 5 ER in two of his 4 September starts, and you have Rich Harden. Harden has given up 4 ER once as a Cub, and only twice this season. He's thrown 7 innings 4 times as a Cub and is averaging nearly as many innings per outing as Lilly, at 5.9. Essentially, Lilly gets you one more out, on average, per start (actually less as he averages just 0.1 more innings per game). This is just completely illogical.

 

You have off days galore, and bullpens will be rested. If Harden throws in game 2, then there is an off day immediately following. Harden is far and away the team's most effective starter, while Ted Lilly is clearly number 4. This should not even be a discussion.

[David]

looooool at the stupidity of leaving harden as your 4th starter

 

wow

 

he was acquired FOR THE PLAYOFFS

 

 

sullivan is basically arguing that a potential 7 IP from Lilly > say 6 IP from Harden

[David]

i'm honestly at a loss for words

 

harden's numbers are far and away the best on our staff by a ridiculous margin

[David]

BTW, Harden has averaged 5.91 IP per start this season... Lilly? 6.0

[jersey cubs fan]

BTW, Harden has averaged 5.91 IP per start this season... Lilly? 6.0

 

The fact that Lilly is likely to get you maybe 1 more out than Harden while giving up 2-3 more runs just makes it painfully obvious that Lilly should not start game 2. If he does, and the Cubs advance, that likely puts him in-line to get two starts in the NLCS, with Harden possibly only getting one. It's just nuts to even contemplate this issue.

 

Paul worries that 5-6 innings out of Harden will force your pen to get overworked (in a series with 2 off days already built in and with plenty of time to rest up bullpen arms in advance) while Ted Lilly is the one who is actually a real risk to need to be pulled very early, as he lasted just 2 innings in his first September start, and has been unable to finish 5 innings on 6 occassions this year.

 

I like Ted Lilly. His value to this team is obvious, and his improvement over the second half was clear. But Ted Lilly is nothing more than a nice middle rotation pitcher who can give you a fairly decent chunk of solid innings year-in and year-out, while Rich Harden is very clearly the most dominant starter on the staff.

[Guest]

Sullivan is a hack and an idiot.

[C.C.]

I'm nervous with Dempster starting game 1. Not sure why...

 

I'd rather have Harden.

[SouthSideRyan]

Paul Sullivan is a dumb, spiteful hobbit.