Sullivan - Cuban moving up on the outside

[nilodnayr]

That said, if Cuban wasn't acceptable he would not have been part of the bid process.

 

Perhaps, but then again, maybe they were only willing to get him involved in the bidding process, in order to drive up the price.

 

Oliver Stone stuff there.

 

But isn't that what happened in Boston? Its not unprecedented.

[jersey cubs fan]

That said, if Cuban wasn't acceptable he would not have been part of the bid process.

 

Perhaps, but then again, maybe they were only willing to get him involved in the bidding process, in order to drive up the price.

 

Oliver Stone stuff there.

 

But isn't that what happened in Boston? Its not unprecedented.

 

Nor is it akin to conspiracy theories. It's easy to allow a billionaire to see the books and make a bid. It would be very difficult to not allow him to even be a part of the process. Approving his bid is another story.

[Peoriaman]

well, we shall see. There isn't a shortage of big money people bidding for the Cubs. I find it hard to believe that they solely allowed in Cuban to hype the bidding with the intention of starting a legal battle over his ownership denial. We will agree to disagree.

[javy knows my name]

That said, if Cuban wasn't acceptable he would not have been part of the bid process.

 

Perhaps, but then again, maybe they were only willing to get him involved in the bidding process, in order to drive up the price.

 

Oliver Stone stuff there.

Hardly. That's exactly what I was thinking. Now, personally, I believe Cuban will own the team if he makes the highest bid, but if you can get away with it, it's just smart business to allow someone like him in on the process regardless of whether or not he has a real shot.

[jersey cubs fan]

well, we shall see. There isn't a shortage of big money people bidding for the Cubs. I find it hard to believe that they solely allowed in Cuban to hype the bidding with the intention of starting a legal battle over his ownership denial. We will agree to disagree.

 

No need to disagree. I said they may have let him in to up the bidding. I didn't say they intended to start a legal battle. I think there would be a bigger battle if they didn't even allow him to look at the books. At least if they did it this way, they can make up something about preferring another structure.

 

I think there is a group that doesn't want him, but I have a hard time thinking there's a big enough group to prevent him from buying. And that there would be enough rational owners who see the value in selling to the highest bidder with the liquidity to run a successful franchise.

[Peoriaman]

well, we shall see. There isn't a shortage of big money people bidding for the Cubs. I find it hard to believe that they solely allowed in Cuban to hype the bidding with the intention of starting a legal battle over his ownership denial. We will agree to disagree.

 

No need to disagree. I said they may have let him in to up the bidding. I didn't say they intended to start a legal battle. I think there would be a bigger battle if they didn't even allow him to look at the books. At least if they did it this way, they can make up something about preferring another structure.

 

I think there is a group that doesn't want him, but I have a hard time thinking there's a big enough group to prevent him from buying. And that there would be enough rational owners who see the value in selling to the highest bidder with the liquidity to run a successful franchise.

 

 

My point exactly. The Cubs and MLB know they can get Cuban through.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Cuban has talked about other NBA owners joining his bid. Could one of those be Coangelo(sp?)? He would probably help Cuban gain approval.

[DivineBovine]

All those years claiming the Cubs were losing money because they had to pay other teams for broadcasting games on WGN.

 

Well, they don't pay other teams. They pay MLB in the form of a Superstation tax per game. There is a good article on the Library of Congress website about Superstations and the FCC which explains this somewhat. Why do you think the Braves flagship is no longer TBS?

 

 

http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/1997/62fr55742.html

 

SBCA

presented evidence that both the professional baseball and basketball

leagues extracted additional compensation from WGN in Chicago and WTBS

in Atlanta--both superstations known to be widely distributed on

satellite--though the amount was not quantified. SBCA Proposed Findings

of Fact and Conclusions of Law at 72-73.

 

 

Not denying that such a fee existed. Just feel it was absurd that this was an excuse all those years for a pathetic payroll.

 

In 1997, the year of your link, the Braves had a $53 million payroll to the Cubs $31 million. In 1998, it was $71 to $61. In 1999, it was $79 to $55. In 2000, it was $84 tp $60. Need I go on? The Braves had the highest salary in the NL through from 1997-2000. They were in the top 3 through 2004, ahead of the Cubs. The Cubs were average at best, often getting outspent by such teams as the Rockies and Cards. Clearly, the Superstation Tax didn't hurt the Braves as much as it hurt the Cubs.

 

I can't see how anyone can objectively look at TV/radio revenue without doubt, considering the Tribune also owned the primary source of TV and radio broadcasts.

 

Trust me, there is no way a guy as smart as Mark Cuban and other superrich guys are bidding $1 billion plus if they don't see the possibility that the team can earn like the other elite teams in the sport- by that I mean the Yankees and the Red Sox. Maybe they aren't in it strictly for the money, but hey aren't dumb enough to throw away money just to own a baseball team.

 

Look back at the payrolls of the Cubs in the past 10 years. Once one sees how much Cuban spends in relation to other teams, I think anyone would look back at the years of the Trib as the dark years of Cub ownership. And what can we expect from a publicly traded profit making machine.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think anyone would look back at the years of the Trib as the dark years of Cub ownership. And what can we expect from a publicly traded profit making machine.

 

This is all a bunch of nonsense. The whining about ownership always was overblown. They ran the team like crap and employed horrible personel decision makers. That is why they sucked. It wasn't because of spending or the drive for profit.

[DivineBovine]

I think anyone would look back at the years of the Trib as the dark years of Cub ownership. And what can we expect from a publicly traded profit making machine.

 

This is all a bunch of nonsense. The whining about ownership always was overblown. They ran the team like crap and employed horrible personel decision makers. That is why they sucked. It wasn't because of spending or the drive for profit.

 

 

How can you say its nonsense? Is it so absurd that the motivations of a publicly traded company with shareholders might be different that those of a sports fan who happens to be rich?

 

The Cubs clearly never had the smarts of the Twins or the A's. Nobody is denying that. But neither did the Yankees or Red Sox. My gripe is that the Cubs never spent the money they should have given their fan base and revenue. Look at their payroll in relation to the league for the past 10-20 years.

 

Yes, we can all point out about dumb personnel decisions. But to me, stupidity is more forgivable than greed. It's true that smart decision making can to a large extent overcome a big payroll, but it can never make a consistent winner. And payroll will roughly correlate with wins, even if there are exceptions. That's undeniable.

[Banedon]

I think anyone would look back at the years of the Trib as the dark years of Cub ownership. And what can we expect from a publicly traded profit making machine.

 

This is all a bunch of nonsense. The whining about ownership always was overblown. They ran the team like crap and employed horrible personel decision makers. That is why they sucked. It wasn't because of spending or the drive for profit.

 

 

How can you say its nonsense? Is it so absurd that the motivations of a publicly traded company with shareholders might be different that those of a sports fan who happens to be rich?

 

The Cubs clearly never had the smarts of the Twins or the A's. Nobody is denying that. But neither did the Yankees or Red Sox. My gripe is that the Cubs never spent the money they should have given their fan base and revenue. Look at their payroll in relation to the league for the past 10-20 years.

 

Yes, we can all point out about dumb personnel decisions. But to me, stupidity is more forgivable than greed. It's true that smart decision making can to a large extent overcome a big payroll, but it can never make a consistent winner. And payroll will roughly correlate with wins, even if there are exceptions. That's undeniable.

 

In the last 5 years, the Cubs have been in the playoffs twice. Both times the team that beat them had a payroll significantly lower than theirs. Money was never the issue...or at least not in recent years.

[David]

He's not talking about the last 5 years, though.

 

He's talking about all those years through the 80s and (particularly, as salaries got higher) 90s where the team was being outspent by smaller market teams and generally not making an effort to put a decent product on the field. The years where we'd pick up Dave Magadan or Leo Gomez to plug the 3B hole. Or when Kevin Tapani and Terry Mulholland were big signings to round out the rotation.

 

I'm not saying he's right, as I'm really too young to even remember many details about that era and I'm not gonna bother researching it. Just pointing out that he wasn't really talking about their recent free spending ways.

[Magnetic Curses]

I think anyone would look back at the years of the Trib as the dark years of Cub ownership. And what can we expect from a publicly traded profit making machine.

 

This is all a bunch of nonsense. The whining about ownership always was overblown. They ran the team like crap and employed horrible personel decision makers. That is why they sucked. It wasn't because of spending or the drive for profit.

 

while i mostly agree with this, the cubs have been one of a handful of clubs to consistently turn a profit since the mid-80's and for most of those years they were middle of the pack in payroll.

 

most teams are run to turn a profit, few teams will be run in the red on purpose in order to win games. but teams with private owners don't operate their teams as key assets, like the cubs have been run. the cubs are the crown-jewel of the tribune company, they are a cash cow. other teams are simply run like low-risk, low-return investments for owners or as toys.

 

i find the whining annoying, though. it was somewhat about money, but more about idiocy. but then again, that idiocy can be directly linked to a lack of motivation on the part of upper-upper management.

[David]

Looks like Cuban will be at Woody's bowling event...

 

http://www.suntimes.com/news/sneed/1093159,CST-NWS-SNEED06.article

 

The Cuban beat . . .

 

Billionaire Mark Cuban, whose fast footwork on "Dancing with the Stars" could help him win his bid to own the Chicago Cubs, will be front and center at 10pin bowling alley tonight.

 

• • Translation: Cuban, who is the leading bidder for the Cubs franchise, will be starring at Cub Pitcher Kerry Wood's Strike Zone Celebrity Bowling Tournament and auction. The rest of the Cubs will also be in the zone.

[shnsajax]

Looks like Cuban will be at Woody's bowling event...

 

http://www.suntimes.com/news/sneed/1093159,CST-NWS-SNEED06.article

 

The Cuban beat . . .

 

Billionaire Mark Cuban, whose fast footwork on "Dancing with the Stars" could help him win his bid to own the Chicago Cubs, will be front and center at 10pin bowling alley tonight.

 

• • Translation: Cuban, who is the leading bidder for the Cubs franchise, will be starring at Cub Pitcher Kerry Wood's Strike Zone Celebrity Bowling Tournament and auction. The rest of the Cubs will also be in the zone.

 

That's great. He should tell Wood that if he is owner he will give him an extension.

[RammyFanny]

They just interviewed him at Woody's bowling thing on ABC but sidetracked his way around any questions involving buying the Cubs.

 

And I missed that Cuban was in the bleachers today.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Here's another article about Cuban's appearance at the Kerry Wood event.

[Magnetic Curses]

it's starting to look like he's the favorite to buy the team.

[DivineBovine]

I think anyone would look back at the years of the Trib as the dark years of Cub ownership. And what can we expect from a publicly traded profit making machine.

 

This is all a bunch of nonsense. The whining about ownership always was overblown. They ran the team like crap and employed horrible personel decision makers. That is why they sucked. It wasn't because of spending or the drive for profit.

 

 

How can you say its nonsense? Is it so absurd that the motivations of a publicly traded company with shareholders might be different that those of a sports fan who happens to be rich?

 

The Cubs clearly never had the smarts of the Twins or the A's. Nobody is denying that. But neither did the Yankees or Red Sox. My gripe is that the Cubs never spent the money they should have given their fan base and revenue. Look at their payroll in relation to the league for the past 10-20 years.

 

Yes, we can all point out about dumb personnel decisions. But to me, stupidity is more forgivable than greed. It's true that smart decision making can to a large extent overcome a big payroll, but it can never make a consistent winner. And payroll will roughly correlate with wins, even if there are exceptions. That's undeniable.

 

In the last 5 years, the Cubs have been in the playoffs twice. Both times the team that beat them had a payroll significantly lower than theirs. Money was never the issue...or at least not in recent years.

 

 

Even a team that doesn't spend money is going to make the playoffs occasionally. That's what happened in 84, 89 and 98, 03. To me, it's not acceptable for a team with our fan base and revenue to make the playoffs 4 times in 20 years. That's pathetic if you ask me.

 

And to lose to smaller market teams- it happens. Once you are in the playoffs, anything can happen. See how the Yankees have faltered lately and wild cards have won their share of recent WS. But that's not the point. In a single series, anything can happen. That's a given. Even at 7 games, any mediocre team can knock off the best team in baseball. The only thing that one can control is getting to the playoffs. I'm a firm believer in that. And in order to consistently make the playoffs, you have to spend money. The Marlins or D Backs are never going to have perennial contenders. They have to get lucky to get the right prospects that produce, and hope to win before they leave for free agency or are traded to shed payroll. Too bad for them.

 

And we made the playoffs last year partly because we started to spend money. And you can say that we signed Soriano because the Trib was going to sell the team. Come on, when have the Cubs even been mentioned with a elite free agent. Ever.

[Banedon]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Banedon/soto_cuban.jpg

 

Two awesome men, or the the two awesomest men?

 

That's Cuban's wife on the right.

[Brett]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Banedon/soto_cuban.jpg

 

Two awesome men, or the the two awesomest men?

 

That's Cuban's wife on the right.

 

Is that at the Cubs bowling event or something?

[Banedon]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Banedon/soto_cuban.jpg

 

Two awesome men, or the the two awesomest men?

 

That's Cuban's wife on the right.

 

Is that at the Cubs bowling event or something?

 

Yep. As talked about above, Mr Cuban was in attendance.

 

Pressed by a reporter on whether he would eventually own the Cubs, he said, "I'm not much of a bowler. That's the strongest statement I'll make."

[RedIvyCub]

it's starting to look like he's the favorite to buy the team.

 

Why would you say that? Kerry Wood has no say in the new owner and neither do the players. They should be careful what they wish for if they enjoy having their clubhouse to themselves. JMHO based on past observations.

 

Just asking...but if Cuban wasn't involved, would most fans really care that much who has the winning bid to purchase the Cubs? I think not.

[UMFan83]

it's starting to look like he's the favorite to buy the team.

 

Why would you say that? Kerry Wood has no say in the new owner and neither do the players. They should be careful what they wish for if they enjoy having their clubhouse to themselves. JMHO based on past observations.

 

Just asking...but if Cuban wasn't involved, would most fans really care that much who has the winning bid to purchase the Cubs? I think not.

 

I think its just a good sign that not only is he the highest bidder thus fan (and of course that can change), but he is actively attending Cub charity events in Chicago.

[anabiono]

i absolutely have a man crush on soto