Now what is the Cubs biggest need?

[sharkfan50]

I think one of the bigger needs for this team is for Bob Howry to get his head out of his ass and start pitching decent. Hes been terrible this year for the most part, which causes Lou to depend even more on Marmol.

 

True Dat. We all know that it takes Howry a couple months into the season to get his arm "loose" and this bullpen really does need him to be effective once again like last season. To be honest it always kind of amazed me how a guy like him who does throw hard (not too much movement though on his fastball) but who consistently works his fastball on the outside of the plate and who primarily throws fastballs, has been so effective throughout his career.

 

Having said that though, from the limited games I've been able to see this year (about 2 or 3 a week), it does appear that RECENTLY anyway, he is throwing more offspeed pitches and changeups than I can ever remember him throwing, which is good and encouraging.

 

This being baseball and baseball being a game of "ifs" but if Marmol can return to his April and May form, if Kerry can be a lights out closer in the 2nd half, if Howry can be the pitcher he was in the 2nd half last year, if Eyre can come back healthy, I still like the chances of this team the way it is currently constructed. I would have to say between the Cards and Brewers, the CUbs have potentially the best overall pitching in the league and if that bullpen can shorten the game down some, than I think this team has enough offense to still win this Division. Offensively, there's only 1 move IMO that they can even improve upon and make a move for and that's obviously replacing Cedeno's bat. Every position is basically locked in.

 

I guess they could also add another starter to replace Marquis. But who and just how much of an imact starter would they be willing to give up prospects for? Is Burnett even a possibility at this point and would it be foolish of them to make an already solid rotation, that much better? I guess my question is, we all know that Burnett would be an upgrade over Marquis, but would he be that much of an upgrade over Marquis to give up the prospects that it would take to get him and do the CUbs even have the prospects it'd take to take the chance and get Burnett???

Edited July 20, 2008 by sharkfan50

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Howry's last 11 outings: 10 IP, 7 H, 4 ER, 1 HR, 4/0 K/BB

 

That's a 3.60 ERA, 0.70 WHIP, to go with a .189/.189/.378/.567 line against.

 

EDIT: Howry since Mid-May: 25.2 IP, 25 H, 9 ER, 2 HR, 22/3 K/BB, .253/.272/.404/.676 line against

[NCCubFan]

I guess they could also add another starter to replace Marquis. But who and just how much of an imact starter would they be willing to give up prospects for? Is Burnett even a possibility at this point and would it be foolish of them to make an already solid rotation, that much better? I guess my question is, we all know that Burnett would be an upgrade over Marquis, but would he be that much of an upgrade over Marquis to give up the prospects that it would take to get him and do the CUbs even have the prospects it'd take to take the chance and get Burnett???

No need to trade for a starter to replace Marquis. We already have that starter: Sean Marshall. What we need is for the Cubs to realize that Marshall is better than Marquis.

[sharkfan50]

I guess they could also add another starter to replace Marquis. But who and just how much of an imact starter would they be willing to give up prospects for? Is Burnett even a possibility at this point and would it be foolish of them to make an already solid rotation, that much better? I guess my question is, we all know that Burnett would be an upgrade over Marquis, but would he be that much of an upgrade over Marquis to give up the prospects that it would take to get him and do the CUbs even have the prospects it'd take to take the chance and get Burnett???

No need to trade for a starter to replace Marquis. We already have that starter: Sean Marshall. What we need is for the Cubs to realize that Marshall is better than Marquis.

 

Well, I don't know if Marshall is the answer either, but I will agree with you that he should be the 5th starter over Marquis, anyway. It'll be interesting what the Cubs decide to do when Eyre comes off the DL.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, no it won't. Hart will obviously be sent down. 3 lefties in the pen though with 2 "long relievers". Something has to be shaken up here soon I would imagine.

[neely crenshaw]

I think the way the season plays out will determine what we need.

soriano comes back it adds a bat to the bench. reed johnson, edmonds at times, de rosa at times..maybe even aram with derosa playing 3b.

if we don't need anything to get to the playoffs obviously we gain a reliever when #5 goes to the pen..which should be marquis or marshall( if he replaces him)- but marquis would add a righty arm there.

 

right now it seems the question would be is wood out for a while and is marmol bouncing back. if there is a problem there then we better look for a big time righty- which are difficult to find this time of year.

 

we certainly have the potential to hit our way into the playoffs if healthy, and we also have the starting pitching if healthy to get there. the main deal is if we get there do we have enough to win the thing-which has to be our goal when we are this close

[Keener98]

Howry's last 11 outings: 10 IP, 7 H, 4 ER, 1 HR, 4/0 K/BB

 

That's a 3.60 ERA, 0.70 WHIP, to go with a .189/.189/.378/.567 line against.

 

EDIT: Howry since Mid-May: 25.2 IP, 25 H, 9 ER, 2 HR, 22/3 K/BB, .253/.272/.404/.676 line against

 

Outside of 1 month Howry hasnt posted an ERA under 4.5 for any month on the season. He has given up 56 hits in only 46.1 innings pitched. Teams are hitting almost .300 against him. Averaging giving up a hit per inning is not a good thing for a reliever. Howry has been pretty damn bad this year, and there really is no glossing over it.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Howry's last 11 outings: 10 IP, 7 H, 4 ER, 1 HR, 4/0 K/BB

 

That's a 3.60 ERA, 0.70 WHIP, to go with a .189/.189/.378/.567 line against.

 

EDIT: Howry since Mid-May: 25.2 IP, 25 H, 9 ER, 2 HR, 22/3 K/BB, .253/.272/.404/.676 line against

 

Outside of 1 month Howry hasnt posted an ERA under 4.5 for any month on the season. He has given up 56 hits in only 46.1 innings pitched. Teams are hitting almost .300 against him. Averaging giving up a hit per inning is not a good thing for a reliever. Howry has been pretty damn bad this year, and there really is no glossing over it.

 

Howry since May 1: 33 IP, 12 ER, 35 H, 26/4 K/BB, 4 HR, that's good for a 3.27 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, and .267/.287/.435/.722.

 

You are really stretching it. Howry has been fine since he got off to a slow start, quite good actually.

[wekse]

Howry's last 11 outings: 10 IP, 7 H, 4 ER, 1 HR, 4/0 K/BB

 

That's a 3.60 ERA, 0.70 WHIP, to go with a .189/.189/.378/.567 line against.

 

EDIT: Howry since Mid-May: 25.2 IP, 25 H, 9 ER, 2 HR, 22/3 K/BB, .253/.272/.404/.676 line against

 

Outside of 1 month Howry hasnt posted an ERA under 4.5 for any month on the season. He has given up 56 hits in only 46.1 innings pitched. Teams are hitting almost .300 against him. Averaging giving up a hit per inning is not a good thing for a reliever. Howry has been pretty damn bad this year, and there really is no glossing over it.

 

Howry since May 1: 33 IP, 12 ER, 35 H, 26/4 K/BB, 4 HR, that's good for a 3.27 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, and .267/.287/.435/.722.

 

You are really stretching it. Howry has been fine since he got off to a slow start, quite good actually.

 

BUT HE GAVE UP 2 HITS ON FRIDAY!!!!!

[Keener98]

Howry's last 11 outings: 10 IP, 7 H, 4 ER, 1 HR, 4/0 K/BB

 

That's a 3.60 ERA, 0.70 WHIP, to go with a .189/.189/.378/.567 line against.

 

EDIT: Howry since Mid-May: 25.2 IP, 25 H, 9 ER, 2 HR, 22/3 K/BB, .253/.272/.404/.676 line against

 

Outside of 1 month Howry hasnt posted an ERA under 4.5 for any month on the season. He has given up 56 hits in only 46.1 innings pitched. Teams are hitting almost .300 against him. Averaging giving up a hit per inning is not a good thing for a reliever. Howry has been pretty damn bad this year, and there really is no glossing over it.

 

Howry since May 1: 33 IP, 12 ER, 35 H, 26/4 K/BB, 4 HR, that's good for a 3.27 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, and .267/.287/.435/.722.

 

You are really stretching it. Howry has been fine since he got off to a slow start, quite good actually.

 

Thats still giving up more than a hit an inning. His whip is so good because he doesnt walk anyone, but as a reliever giving up a hit per inning is not good. He may not have been as bad as I thought, but I dont think hes been as good as you say either. While looking deeper into his stats, it looks like he has alot better when he has no runners on, compared to when he has runners on. Any idea how hes done with inherited runners? I cant find it

[Keener98]

Howry's last 11 outings: 10 IP, 7 H, 4 ER, 1 HR, 4/0 K/BB

 

That's a 3.60 ERA, 0.70 WHIP, to go with a .189/.189/.378/.567 line against.

 

EDIT: Howry since Mid-May: 25.2 IP, 25 H, 9 ER, 2 HR, 22/3 K/BB, .253/.272/.404/.676 line against

 

Outside of 1 month Howry hasnt posted an ERA under 4.5 for any month on the season. He has given up 56 hits in only 46.1 innings pitched. Teams are hitting almost .300 against him. Averaging giving up a hit per inning is not a good thing for a reliever. Howry has been pretty damn bad this year, and there really is no glossing over it.

 

Howry since May 1: 33 IP, 12 ER, 35 H, 26/4 K/BB, 4 HR, that's good for a 3.27 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, and .267/.287/.435/.722.

 

You are really stretching it. Howry has been fine since he got off to a slow start, quite good actually.

 

BUT HE GAVE UP 2 HITS ON FRIDAY!!!!!

 

That added alot to the discussion, thanks.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Howry has allowed 2 of 21 inherited runners to score. One was when he inherited a bases loaded, no out situation in Pittsburgh, allowing a sac fly. The other was a bases loaded, one out situation in San Diego, he got a weak groundball to SS that was only a FC, scoring a run.

[Keener98]

Howry has allowed 2 of 21 inherited runners to score. One was when he inherited a bases loaded, no out situation in Pittsburgh, allowing a sac fly. The other was a bases loaded, one out situation in San Diego, he got a weak groundball to SS that was only a FC, scoring a run.

Ok thanks. Maybe my goals are set to high for Howry after his 2nd half last year, but I just really wish he'd cut down on the hits given up.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Need 1: Starter. Rich Harden, check

Need 2: Alfonse Soriano: See you Thursday

Need 3: Bullpen Arm: Chad Gaudin, check

Need 4: bench bat: Once Soriano returns, we'll have plenty of bench depth with Ward, Fontenot(if he keeps it up), and Edmonds/Johnson.

[Derwood]

adam dunn

[twothousandfive]

I suppose you can make the argument Gaudin is more versatile, but he was in the pen for Oakland while Joe Blanton started. That makes me wonder exactly how talented he is as a starter.

 

And as a reliever, he seems to excel in the 2-inning stints, putting him as a middle relief guy. Given the effectiveness of Cubs starters, unless Piniella is looking to limit pitch counts, I don't see how often Gaudin is going to make the difference by pitching the 6th & 7th or 7th & 8th, with some combination of Howry, Marmol, Wood healthy.

 

Certainly, Gaudin should start warming in the fifth for every one of Marquis' starts, but for the other guys, we should be looking for a world where Gaudin's skills aren't needed. With Wood not available, it becomes a bit different, with Gaudin maybe slotting right behind Howry and Marmol, and if one of those guys needs the night off, Gaudin can take the eighth or ninth. But if Wood doesn't come back soon, they need another short man.

 

If it is true that Sherrill, Street and Fuentes are all available, this is the perfect time for Hendry to leak his best offer to the press, and see one of those GMs come and take it. With Veal, Ceda, Hart, Ascanio for young arms, and maybe Colvin and even Vitters, the Cubs should have what it takes to make a deal.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Howry since May 1: 33 IP, 12 ER, 35 H, 26/4 K/BB, 4 HR, that's good for a 3.27 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, and .267/.287/.435/.722.

 

You are really stretching it. Howry has been fine since he got off to a slow start, quite good actually.

Howry was terrific in May. Howry's numbers since June 1 aren't as pretty

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Trading for relievers can be an iffy proposition at best. Unless you really pay for one of the biggies, you never know what you're going to get.

 

Linebrink was supposed to stabilize Milwaukee's pen last year and didn't get it done. The same reason I typically don't like to overpay for relievers in FA is the same reason I'd be cautious of what chips we traded for one in July.

 

Someone is going to overpay for Fuentes, in my opinion. He's good and would be a nice addition because he's a lefty that pitches well to both lefties and righties, but he's going to cost a lot.

 

If we could get Mike Gonzalez on the cheap, I'd go that route. But my guess is the Braves would only trade him for a nice return.

[Old Style]

adam dunn

I was thinking this as well.

[CubColtPacer]

adam dunn

I was thinking this as well.

 

I just don't see how this works with the ballclub. If you add Dunn in LF, suddenly you have to move Soriano to RF. So you've downgraded defensively in both LF and RF. Then Edmonds is benched (even though he's hitting better than Fukudome at the moment, Kouske wouldn't be benched long-term in the 1st year of a long-term deal). Also, 1 of the 2 of Edmonds or Ward would have to be released.

 

So in effect you've substituted the Edmonds/Johnson platoon for Dunn's. That is an increase offensively (how much of one is a serious debate, since the Edmonds/Johnson platoon is hard to get a read on for how productive they will be the last 3 months). The cons are increased salary obligations and the fact that your OF is now horrible defensively.

 

If we could have him for free, would Dunn be worth it for the offensive upgrade even with all the other issues? Absolutely. But he isn't going to come anywhere near free, and the Cubs are going to have to pay the market value of a team who really has a need for a player like Dunn, not a team that has to rearrange half of its parts to fit him in. Fair value for Dunn in the Cubs case is simply not worth it.

[Derwood]

isn't Soriano's arm more valuable in RF?

[SouthSideRyan]

isn't Soriano's arm more valuable in RF?

 

This was discussed a bit last year, I don't think any consensus was reached, but I preferred his arm in LF, because I believe he gets more chances out there as more balls go to LF than RF. RF is only preferred because of the throw to 3rd, and I think the fact that there's more chances in LF negates that.

[CubColtPacer]

isn't Soriano's arm more valuable in RF?

 

I would argue no. There are more ground ball base hits that are hit into LF than RF. Coming to the plate, Soriano's arm is more valuable where there are more chances to throw out players who are trying to score from 2nd.

 

The only other big difference is that your RF having a strong arm can prevent a runner or two from going to first to third. You don't see that many runners taking that chance anymore though, and you're not going to get many assists at third base. It will be more about prevention than actually getting outs from your arm.

 

The big reason why I would say LF is that third base coaches are a lot more cautious in bringing runners to third base than sending them home. That enthusiasm in waving runners in needs to be countered by having the best arm in LF. At the same time, I think athletically you want your best athletic corner OF to be in RF (less damage in misplayed balls in LF than right), so that's why I would move Soriano to RF anyway if Dunn came aboard.

[nilodnayr]

isn't Soriano's arm more valuable in RF?

 

This was discussed a bit last year, I don't think any consensus was reached, but I preferred his arm in LF, because I believe he gets more chances out there as more balls go to LF than RF. RF is only preferred because of the throw to 3rd, and I think the fact that there's more chances in LF negates that.

 

I would add that in Wrigley, LF is much easier to play than RF.

[Derwood]

isn't Soriano's arm more valuable in RF?

 

This was discussed a bit last year, I don't think any consensus was reached, but I preferred his arm in LF, because I believe he gets more chances out there as more balls go to LF than RF. RF is only preferred because of the throw to 3rd, and I think the fact that there's more chances in LF negates that.

 

I would add that in Wrigley, LF is much easier to play than RF.

 

and Dunn is the lefty-power hitter Lou craves. Yes, his defense would not be good....at all....but if you slide Kosuke to CF he can help out on plays in the gap. I think it's a "plus" move over what we have right now.

[rocket]

howry throws another turd today. i tend to die a little inside whenever he takes the mound.