Baseball History Thread

[Clem Fandango]

Was thew 1941 MVP award voting a case of Dimaggio being on the better team than Williams?

 

It must suck something fierce when you put up an OPS+ of 235 and hit over .400 and lose to someone else. Not saying Dimagigo's season wasn't good, but Williams dwarfed him in comparison and still came in second. And it's not like Boston sucked, they came in 2nd place that year.

 

It was more a case of the writers hated Ted Williams.

 

 

Indeed. Fans today don't really understand that Williams was basically the Barry Bonds of his day. Nearly universally hated.

 

Wow, I never knew that. Why was he so hated? Was he rude to the media or was he kind of a dirty player?

[TruffleShuffle]

Was thew 1941 MVP award voting a case of Dimaggio being on the better team than Williams?

 

It must suck something fierce when you put up an OPS+ of 235 and hit over .400 and lose to someone else. Not saying Dimagigo's season wasn't good, but Williams dwarfed him in comparison and still came in second. And it's not like Boston sucked, they came in 2nd place that year.

 

It was more a case of the writers hated Ted Williams.

 

 

Indeed. Fans today don't really understand that Williams was basically the Barry Bonds of his day. Nearly universally hated.

 

Wow, I never knew that. Why was he so hated? Was he rude to the media or was he kind of a dirty player?

 

he was just a dick to the media, didn't think that he should have to bother with them. he also got pissed off when the media discussed his personal life in the papers. he didn't like that the fans would boo him and other players when they screwed up, especially if they did a lot of other good things otherwise, so he never made curtain calls or tipped his cap.

 

but that's really where the similarities to bonds end. williams gave generously to charity and was always very kind and supportive toward his teammates, and spent four years fighting in wwii and korea. the service in korea was completely voluntary - he stayed in the reserves after his service in wwii. and he used his hall of fame induction speech to support inducting negro league players into the hall of fame.

 

barry bonds, by most accounts, is a jerk on and off the field.

[OleMissCub]

but that's really where the similarities to bonds end. williams gave generously to charity and was always very kind and supportive toward his teammates, and spent four years fighting in wwii and korea. the service in korea was completely voluntary - he stayed in the reserves after his service in wwii. and he used his hall of fame induction speech to support inducting negro league players into the hall of fame.

 

barry bonds, by most accounts, is a jerk on and off the field.

 

Absolutely. I would never want to compare them as human beings.

[OleMissCub]

Thought some of you might get a kick out of this. It's from the final chapter of Ty Cobb's autobiography My Life In Baseball. The chapter is basically an entire Grandpa Simpson moment, bitching about the way the game is played in modern times (1960's to him). Interesting thing is, some of the things he says are a bit prophetic.

 

 

They've been trying to fix things that are wrong with my game ever since I can remember, and I fear they'll never succeed. Commercialism, television, a breakdown of the old order of procedure in trading players and maintaining long-established franchises, the wrecking of traditional league lines by adding new clubs willy-nilly and failure to solve the reserve-clause problem have put the grand old game in jeopardy as we move well into the 1960's. Wild things are happening. The fabric of baseball is crumbling.

 

Other sports, I'm afraid, will soon put baseball in the shade. As far back as 1932, in the Olympic Games at Los Angeles, a special exhibition of an American pastime was staged. Did we give the world a baseball game? We did not - we gave that Olympic audience an exhibition of fooball. No one particularly protested or saw much amiss in this. And there you have it. The encroachment of another sport on baseball's season would have been unthinkable once upon a time. Now, pro football opens in August and packs in the fans. Other sports outpromote baseball: hockey, basketball, pro football, and even tournament golf on the professional level. The minor leagues, of course, have been wrecked all over America by wild-eyed desperate expansion of the majors.

 

In its authentic form, the sport produces runs by base hits, bases-on-balls, sacrifices, bunts, steals, passed balls, errors afield, balks, hi batters, and the various hit and run strategies.

 

Batting has gone swing crazy - whale away as you please, and don't bother to count the mounting strikeouts. Never mind if the league's leading hitters rarely, if ever, sacrifice, or are able to steal a base because they are all power and no versatility. The runner loose on the paths, daring the defense to stop him, is the most spectacular sight of all. But why bother to steal today when some humpty-dumpty strong boy can pull a dynamite-laden ball over phony fences to drive in the runners?

 

I'll make a startling prediction. Unless some sharp changes are made, the .300 hitter will become extinct in not many years. Only ten of the 400-odd major players reached .300 or more in 1960. Nap Lajoie could have hit .300 one-handed against the present jack-rabbit ball.

 

Get rid of the intentional base-on-balls. I don't know of anything more tiresome. It slows up games, which creep along today, and are another reason baseball is being outpromoted right down the line. In my time we would find bulletins in the clubhouse warning us to speed up the game. In 1920, the longest game in history, 26 innings, was finished in 3 hours, 57 minutes. That constituted almost three nine-inning games. The three hour nine-inning game we see now should be cut to close to two. This is especially harmful, with so much night ball played. A fan can't afford to get home so late after a long-winded contest.

 

Let's give the pitcher a break. Enlarge the strike zone to where it used to be measured: from the armpits to the knees. Pitching should be a fine art, not drudgery, with corps of relievers marching in and out boringly and endlessly.

 

If what I've said here indicates that I think modern kid players should ignore what they see on television and return to the old fundamentals of batwork, I've accomplished my purpose. Science is out the window these days. But we must come back to it if baseball is to remain the No.1 national game. Today, it's as if two golfers had decided to forget all about the course, with its dog legs, bunkers, roughs, and putting greens, and instead just went out to see who could slug the ball the farthest on the driving range. Modern slambang baseball requires very little gray matter. It's time we asked players to use their ingenuity and give the fans a sane balance between brains and brawn. As it stands, the big leaguers of the 1960's era are poor custodians of the sport I love.

 

As I read that I kept thinking about Adam Dunn and Ryan Howard.

[OleMissCub]

One more thing from Cobb's book that cracked me up:

 

Until then, about 1910, I'd been earning the magnificent sum of $4,500 per 154 games. After my fourth consecutive batting championship and that .385 average in '10, I told Navin [Tigers GM] that nothing less than $10,000 would satisfy me.

 

That's hilarious. Imagine paying $4,500 for a guy who put up .420/.467/.621, 196 OPS+ with 83 steals, 147 runs, and 127 RBI. Awesome.

[SouthSideRyan]

One more thing from Cobb's book that cracked me up:

 

Until then, about 1910, I'd been earning the magnificent sum of $4,500 per 154 games. After my fourth consecutive batting championship and that .385 average in '10, I told Navin [Tigers GM] that nothing less than $10,000 would satisfy me.

 

That's hilarious. Imagine paying $4,500 for a guy who put up .420/.467/.621, 196 OPS+ with 83 steals, 147 runs, and 127 RBI. Awesome.

 

That's about 100,000 and 210,000 respectively.

[TruffleShuffle]

One more thing from Cobb's book that cracked me up:

 

Until then, about 1910, I'd been earning the magnificent sum of $4,500 per 154 games. After my fourth consecutive batting championship and that .385 average in '10, I told Navin [Tigers GM] that nothing less than $10,000 would satisfy me.

 

That's hilarious. Imagine paying $4,500 for a guy who put up .420/.467/.621, 196 OPS+ with 83 steals, 147 runs, and 127 RBI. Awesome.

 

guess raisin is older than we thought... maybe he grew up with fred?

[OleMissCub]

Tristram Speaker aka Spoke: 1912 American League MVP

 

Boston Red Sox: 1907-1915

Cleveland Indians: 1916-1926 (became player-manager in 1919)

Washington Senators: 1927

Philadelphia Athletics: 1928

 

162 game avg: .345/.428/.500, 158 OPS+, 7 HR, 46 doubles, 13 triples, 89 RBI, 109 Runs, 204 Hits, 25 stolen bases

 

Best season, 1912: .383/.464/.567, 188 OPS+, 10 HR, 53 doubles, 90 RBI, 136 Runs, 222 Hits, 52 stolen bases

 

1st all-time career Outfield Assists

1st all-time career Doubles

2nd all-time career Putouts (amongst OF)

5th all-time career Batting Average

5th all-time career Hits

6th all-time career Triples

8th all-time career Runs

 

 

My opinion of Speaker is that he's the second greatest defensive outfielder of all-time behind, of course, Mays. Speaker might also claim second place behind Mays in the category of the player with the best offensive/defensive combination, taking every position into account. To read the accounts of those who saw him play brings immediately to mind the descriptions of Willie Mays or the modern descriptions of Griffey, Jr. in his prime. It was said of Speaker that his glove "was where triples go to die". One of the interesting things about Speaker defensively is that he was known as playing perhaps the shallowest center field in history. He had a tremendous ability to catch balls over his shoulder on a dead run. This is why the day after Mays made "the catch", the press brought Tris out to the game to have a photo op with Mays. The old timers who had seen both play went on record as saying that was what Speaker did all the time because of how he positioned himself in the outfield. Speaker was able to play so shallow due mainly to the era he played in, which was the deadball era. Speaker had terrific speed and was an extraordinary baserunner. His great slugging average for his time is more a testament to his speed and baserunning adeptness than any sort of power stroke.

 

Because of the era he played in, Speaker was not only never the bride, but was never the bridesmaid either when it comes to batting titles and records. He spent the first half of his career behind Cobb and Jackson, and then when Jackson was out he had to now deal with Cobb and Ruth. He does hold one distinction over his friend and rival Cobb and that is that he won 3 World Series' while Cobb won none. In his second year as player-manager of the Indians in 1920 at age 32, Speaker brought the Cleveland Indians their first World Series title.

 

In addition to being nicknamed "Spoke", you will also see him occasionally referred to as "The Gray Eagle" due to the fact that he started going gray in his late 20's. This gray hair often makes Tris look much older in photographs than he really was. Another anecdote about Speaker is that he played several years with Ruth when Babe was still pitching. When Babe decided to become an outfielder full-time, it was Speaker who famously stated, "Ruth has made a grave mistake in giving up pitching. Working once a week he might have lasted a long time and become a great star."

 

The end of Speaker's career is somewhat notable in that he played with "the Deadball Three" as I like to call them. In the late 20's Connie Mack had put together a hell of a team with immense young talent such as Lefty Grove, Mickey Cochrane, Al Simmons, Jimmie Foxx, and others. Mack desperately wanted all of this young talent to have some veterans around to teach them the ropes. So he offered pretty sizable contracts to Ty Cobb, Speaker, and Eddie Collins to come play for the A's as a coup de grace on their careers. All three accepted and spent considerable amount of time teaching the young players on the A's a thing or two.

 

photos inside spoiler:

 

 

As a rookie in 1907:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris25-1.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris26.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris20.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris30.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris1.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris4.jpg

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33640&d=1199286205

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris5.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris22.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris6.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris7.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris21.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris23.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris17.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris24.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris2.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris9.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris16.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris3.jpg

 

Scoring the winning run in the 1920 World Series:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris29.jpg

 

With fellow outfielders Duffy Lewis and Harry Hooper:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris18.jpg

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=44633&d=1213537603

 

During the 1915 World Series with Philly star Gavvy Cravath. One thing to note about these old photos is that those bulges on the sides of their pants are sliding pads.

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris31.jpg

 

The two greatest centerfielders of the first half of the 20th century: Speaker and Cobb.

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris8.jpg

 

"The Deadball Three", Cobb, Speaker, & Collins:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris10.jpg

 

With Gehrig, Cobb, & Ruth:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris11.jpg

 

With Stan the Man and Paul Waner:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris13.jpg

 

With you know who:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris14.jpg

 

With Cobb and Joe:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris15.jpg

 

Cool photo. At an old timer's game during WWII. Top row, l to r: Duffy Lewis, Eddie Collins, Roger Bresnahan, Connie Mack, umpire Bill Klem, Red Murray, & George Sisler. Bottom, l to r: Honus Wagner, Frankie Frisch, Babe Ruth, Walter Johnson, and Speaker.

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris12.jpg

 

At another Old Timer's game during WWII with Cy Young:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/tris32.jpg

 

 

Speaker's line from Ogden Nash's Lineup for Yesterday:

 

S is for Speaker,

Swift center-field tender,

When the ball saw him coming,

It yelled, "I surrender."

Edited October 15, 2008 by OleMissCub

[OleMissCub]

Grover Cleveland Alexander aka Pete: 373-208, 2.56 ERA

 

Philadelphia Phillies: 1911-1917, 1930

Chicago Cubs: 1918-1926

St. Louis Cardinals: 1926-1929

 

Best season, 1915: 31-10, 1.22 ERA, 0.842 WHIP, 225 ERA+, 12 shutouts, 241 K's

 

2nd All-Time in Shutouts: 90

3rd All-Time in Wins: 373

Won NL Triple Crown for Pitchers: 1915, 1916, 1917, 1920

 

My take on Pete Alexander is that he was the greatest National League pitcher of all time. He barely beats out Christy Mathewson and Greg Maddux in my view. The Phillies acquired Alexander for $750 and for that sum they got one of the best rookie seasons a pitcher ever had. As a rookie, Pete won 28 games with 7 shutouts and K'd 227 batters, which was a considerable amount in those days. He had an exceptional fastball with a devastating curveball. Amazingly, those were really the only two pitches he threw. However, the contemporary accounts of batters who faced him described that his fastball had terrific late movement in toward right handed hitters. So perhaps he also threw what we would today call a cutter. He had unbelievable control and his career BB/IP is 1.65 walks per 9 innings.

 

Unfortunately for Alexander, pitching was really the only thing he could do well. He really is one of the great tragic characters in baseball history. He was an abnormally quiet person with zero social skills. His already strange demeanor was made even worse when he was hit in the head by a fastball while still in the minor leagues. Alexander was also a large alcoholic. What really set Alexander over the edge was his service in World War One. During the war, he served in the front line trenches with an artillery unit. His experience in the war was apparently pretty horrific, because for the rest of his life he remained partially deaf, suffered from post traumatic stress, and had epileptic seizures.

 

Alexander's greatest moment came as a 39 year old veteran pitcher with the St. Louis Cardinals. In Game 7 of the World Series against the Yankees, the Cardinals were ahead 3-2 in the 7th. The Yankees had bases loaded and two out with Tony Lazzeri at the plate. Out of the bullpen came Alexander who had thrown a complete game the day before. On four pitches he struck out Lazzeri and then pitched two more scoreless innings to give the Cardinals their first World Series win.

 

photos inside spoiler:

 

 

it's too bad this .gif isn't of him in a pitching motion:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/petegif.gif

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete2.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete10.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete9.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete1.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete4.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete18.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete12.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete13.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete14.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete16.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete3.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete5.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete6.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete8.jpg

 

With Satchel Paige:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete7.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete15.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pete11.jpg

 

Video footage that I put together of Alexander, including the aforementioned Game 7 fanning of Tony Lazzeri. One interesting thing to note in the video is that after he K's Lazzeri and walks off the field, he tosses his glove on the ground; a practice that many fielders used to do up until the 1930's.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7oZKNvxg4s

 

 

Alexander's line in Nash's Lineup for Yesterday:

 

A is for Alex

The great Alexander;

More Goose eggs he pitched

Than a popular gander.

[laurens]

It's awesome that he had this shy, boy-ish grin on his face when he was handed the World Series plaque.

[OleMissCub]

It's awesome that he had this shy, boy-ish grin on his face when he was handed the World Series plaque.

 

I believe he was the series MVP. He definitely deserved it too. He went 2-0 with a 1.33 ERA in 20 innings during that series.

[OleMissCub]

Edward Trowbridge Collins aka Cocky: 1914 American League MVP

 

Philadelphia Athletics: 1906-1914, 1927-1930

Chicago White Sox: 1915-1926 (became player-manager 1924)

 

162 game avg: .333/.424/.429, 141 OPS+, 43 Stolen Bases

 

7th All-Time Stolen Bases: 744

10th All-Time Hits: 3,315

Quote from Bill James: "Collins sustained a remarkable level of performance for a remarkably long time. He was past thirty when the lively ball era began, yet he adapted to it and continued to be one of the best players in baseball every year...his was the most valuable career that any second baseman ever had."

 

Author Jack Kavanaugh wrote: "Eddie Collins was one of the most accomplished all-around ballplayers ever to play the game. They called Collins "Cocky," not because he was arrogant, but because he was filled with confidence based on sheer ability."

 

photos inside spoiler:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie13.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie14.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie11.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie4.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie5.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie12.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie10.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie18.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie2.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie7.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie9.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie15.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie16.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie6.jpg

 

Looks like Eddie was trying to turn the DP before he had control of the ball...see the ball in the background.

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie8.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie1.jpg

 

With White Sox manager Kid Gleason:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie3.jpg

 

With Cubs manager Charlie Grimm:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie19.jpg

 

With Lena Blackburne and Ty Cobb:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie20.jpg

 

In the dugout with the A's and Connie Mack:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie17.jpg

 

With Mack and Cobb when Collins was part of the "Deadball Three":

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie22.jpg

 

As a Red Sox scout with an 18 year old Ted Williams and the owner of the Padres:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/eddie21.jpg

 

 

Collins once said of Williams: "If he'd only tip his cap just once he could be mayor of Boston."

[Rob]

I haven't got a chance to read it yet, but I wanted to say that I picked up "My Life in Baseball" as a birthday gift.

[OleMissCub]

I haven't got a chance to read it yet, but I wanted to say that I picked up "My Life in Baseball" as a birthday gift.

 

Outstanding read. Cobb's got an entire chapter on baserunning, one on batting, etc. Just neat to see how a person's approach to the game hasn't really changed in 100 years.

[OleMissCub]

OK guys, been working on compiling this one for a while. I've put together a long video of deadball era footage compiled from different sources.

 

Included in this video are clips of the 1904 Giants, game footage from the 1910 World Series of Cubs v. A's, game footage from the 1919 Series of the Black Sox vs. Reds, and the 1909 Series between Pirates and Tigers. There's also numerous other clips of guys playing from the deadball era (1900-1920).

 

It's funny to see how things haven't changed much for the Cubs in 100 years. One of the clips is a A's batter hitting a two run double off a Cubs pitcher, scoring Hall of Famers Home Run Baker and Eddie Collins, who both do a funny hop on the plate. Also get to see A's HOF pitcher Chief Bender striking out a Cubs batter on a called curveball for a strike and then a swinging strike on a low fastball. Cool stuff I think.

 

To find out who was doing what in some of this footage, I consulted the play-by-play records of the games to match up what is occurring in the footage to what happened in the record.

 

Players I've identified in the footage include Frank Chance, Chief Bender, Frank Baker, Eddie Cicotte, Eddie Collins, Ty Cobb, Honus Wagner, Joe Jackson, Buck Weaver, Chick Gandil, Christy Mathewson, John McGraw, and others.

 

Enjoy.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wz8CC-kwtU

 

 

 

p.s. music is from Band of Brothers btw

[illiniguy]

That was awesome OleMissCub. Thanks.

[laurens]

Hey OMC, there's something I've always wondered: howcome gloves in the deadball era seem to have every finger seperated from eachother, while they're sewn together a few decades later? When and why did this happen?

[OleMissCub]

Hey OMC, there's something I've always wondered: howcome gloves in the deadball era seem to have every finger seperated from eachother, while they're sewn together a few decades later? When and why did this happen?

 

Earliest webbing I've seen was in the 20's. I think this is one reason why fielding stats were so terrible in the old days. For example, Tinker had 56 errors in 1905, yet only had a fielding percentage of .940. God knows what that would be nowadays in FP of an average shortstop.

 

One of the reasons (among many) that ballplayers back in the deadball era had to be extremely hard individuals involved fielding. In some of the books about that era I've read they mention infielders basically sacrificing their bodies to knock down line drives. They obviously also had to use two hands on just about every catch. Regarding outfielders in that era, this statement by Connie Mack about Ty Cobb's fielding always stuck out as just bizarre.

 

Cobb was a real "ball hawk." He knew, somehow, at the instant the pitcher let go of the ball where it was going to be hit, and times without number he would move to the spot in time for the catch when there was no earthly reason for him to be there. He had a peculiar way of catching a fly ball which hasn't been duplicated & which I would not recommend to anyone else; I doubt if anyone but Cobb could do the trick. On a fly, Cobb wouldn't look at the ball. He would look down at the ground & catch the ball directly over his head without even looking.

 

Sounds nuts, but if there is one patron saint in baseball it's Connie Mack.

[OleMissCub]

Just wanted to point out some more things about that deadball footage that I compiled:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wz8CC-kwtU

 

0:50: the dancing third base coach is Hall of Famer Hughie Jennings, former manager of the Tigers for 20 years and at that time a third base coach for the Giants. He was an extremely interesting person in baseball history and was considered by Connie Mack to be one of the greatest minds in baseball history. He was shortstop of the badass Baltimore teams of the late 1890's along with John McGraw, Wee Willie Keeler, and the other guys who came up with the Baltimore Chop and other unique baseball moves. McGraw and Jennings took their brains to successful managing careers after playing on that team. Jennings was famous for jumping up and down in the third base box and shouting out gibberish codes to his players instead of using hand signs. Strangely enough, Jennings was also a licensed lawyer and practiced law in the offseasons.

 

Picture of Hughie doing one of his jigs:

 

 

http://info.detnews.com/dn/history/hughie/images/dancin.gif

 

 

 

1:11: That's Frank Chance shaking hands with A's first baseman Harry Davis.

 

1:30: Make sure to note the people on the rooftops. That's a Cubs tradition going back 100 years. Pretty neat.

 

2:00: Check out left field....looks like photographers IN the field of play!! No zoom lenses back then I suppose, so you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

2:20: That's Eddie Collins in the batters box. I wish he would have swung at that pitch. I've never seen any footage of him swinging. Of course, Eddie Collins was hated by many members of that Black Sox team. Chick Gandil hadn't spoken to him in years and during the whole year the other infielders NEVER threw him the ball in between innings or going around the horn.

 

3:27: Check out the Reds infielders throwing the gloves behind the infield as they head toward the dugout.

 

6:17: My favorite moment of the video. That's perhaps baseball's greatest mind John McGraw tipping his cap to the camera. He was only 31 at the time and had already been managing for 5 years and would manage for another 28 more! That's Christy Mathewson walking right behind him btw.

 

8:37: I like that shot of the 1909 Pirates Bullpen. It's 100 years old but looks like it could have been filmed last night.

 

8:52: That's Hall of Famer Fred Clarke hitting a home run. Honus Wagner is walking up to bat as Clarke scores. You can also see Cobb playing a pretty shallow center field, as he was known to do.

[OleMissCub]

Awesomeness. Casey Stengel bitching about how players can't leave their gloves on the field anymore:

 

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8612/glovesonfieldez4.jpg

 

 

Typical Casey right there. How on earth does a player taking a glove into the dugout with him slow down the game?

[OleMissCub]

Roberto Walker Clemente aka Bob: 1966 National League Most Valuable Player

 

Pittsburgh Pirates (1955-1972)

 

162 Game Avg: .317/.359/.475, 130 OPS+

 

photos inside spoiler

 

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2949/clementeswingrp7.gif

 

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/0018a/0018a5aa.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rob8.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rob12.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rob5.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rob4.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rob13.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rob6.jpg

 

http://www.medaloffreedom.com/RobertoClementeCatch.jpeg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rob2.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rob3.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rob7.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rob10.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rob11.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rob9.jpg

 

National League All-Star outfield for 12 years:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rob1.jpg

 

[OleMissCub]

Henry Louis Gehrig aka The Iron Horse: 1927 & 1936 American League MVP

 

New York Yankees (1923-1939)

 

162 Game Avg: .340/.447/.632, 179 OPS+, 37 HR, 40 Doubles, 12 Triples, 149 RBI, 141 Runs, 113 Walks

 

Best Season (1927): .373/.474/.765, 221 OPS+, 47 HR, 52 Doubles, 18 Triples, 175 RBI, 149 Runs

 

3rd All-Time Slugging: .632

3rd All-Time OPS: 1.080

4th All-Time OPS+: 179

5th All-Time OBP: .447

5th All-Time RBI: 1995

8th All-Time Runs Created: 2233

10th All-Time Runs: 1888

 

photos inside spoiler:

 

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/gehrigwalk3.gif

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/gehrighit2.gif

 

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/48/lowswing3jc2.gif

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou10.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou7.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou6.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou12.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou15.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou13.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou14.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou3.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou8.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou4.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou9.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou2.jpg

 

From an exhibition game:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou16.jpg

 

In his windup from his pitching days at Columbia:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou17.jpg

 

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/alumni/Magazine/images/Fall2001/GehrigCU.jpg

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37520&stc=1&d=1205380188

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37522&stc=1&d=1205380276

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37081&stc=1&d=1204724324

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29658&d=1190758106

 

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/379/lougehrig1920sfm3.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou1.jpg

 

[MSG T]

Henry Louis Gehrig aka The Iron Horse: 1927 & 1936 American League MVP

 

New York Yankees (1923-1939)

 

162 Game Avg: .340/.447/.632, 179 OPS+, 37 HR, 40 Doubles, 12 Triples, 149 RBI, 141 Runs, 113 Walks

 

Best Season (1927): .373/.474/.765, 221 OPS+, 47 HR, 52 Doubles, 18 Triples, 175 RBI, 149 Runs

 

3rd All-Time Slugging: .632

3rd All-Time OPS: 1.080

4th All-Time OPS+: 179

5th All-Time OBP: .447

5th All-Time RBI: 1995

8th All-Time Runs Created: 2233

10th All-Time Runs: 1888

 

photos inside spoiler:

 

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/gehrigwalk3.gif

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/gehrighit2.gif

 

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/48/lowswing3jc2.gif

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou10.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou7.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou6.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou12.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou15.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou13.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou14.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou3.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou8.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou4.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou9.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou2.jpg

 

From an exhibition game:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou16.jpg

 

In his windup from his pitching days at Columbia:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou17.jpg

 

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/alumni/Magazine/images/Fall2001/GehrigCU.jpg

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37520&stc=1&d=1205380188

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37522&stc=1&d=1205380276

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37081&stc=1&d=1204724324

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29658&d=1190758106

 

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/379/lougehrig1920sfm3.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/lou1.jpg

 

 

This thread is now complete.

 

Thanks OMC, Lou is my all-time favorite player. The only non-Cub team related baseball item I have is a throwback #4 Yankees jersey. It even has the old style mid-length sleeves.

[OleMissCub]

I like this pic of babe getting knocked on his butt during a game:

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53986&stc=1&d=1225048242

[OleMissCub]

Neat photograph of Eddie Cicotte of the Black Sox fame:

 

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38666&d=1207017594