Hitting the pitcher 8th

[TheDude]

I'm not a huge fan of hitting the pitcher 8th. It seems like an over-manage kind of move.

 

But, if any team in baseball should be doing this, isn't it the Cubs? Would anyone buy the argument that after the first inning (assuming pitcher hits 8th), Soriano is no longer a lead-off hitter? It's almost like simulating an AL lineup with Soriano at the top.

 

1 - Soriano

2 - Fukudome

3 - Lee

4 - Ramirez

5 - Soto

6 - Edmonds

7 - DeRosa

8 - Pitcher

9 - Theriot

 

Ignore any player swap arguments (ie Johnson, Cedeno, etc. - that's besides the point).

 

Sort of a nonsensical post considering the team leads baseball in Runs and Wins, so this isn't a complaint on Lou's management. Just a discussion point.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

our pitchers:

215/234/306/540 (inflated by Z)

 

our #8 spot (non-pitchers):

270/328/341/669

[Little Slide Rooter]

managers pull that when they have trouble producing runs.

[Electron Blue]

Without a macias or neifi or izturis in the lineup -- and especially on non-Zambrano starts -- I don't think we gain much over the traditional lineup.

[Roast]

When Z starts he should bat Cleanup.

[chuckywang]

Still seems to me like you're going to give more ABs to your worst hitters.

[Tracer Bullet]

If we're trying to get Soriano more ABs with runners on, it's easier to just move him out of the top spot in the lineup.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Still seems to me like you're going to give more ABs to your worst hitters.

 

Not really, when you consider that pinch hitters are used after a certain point. I guess there's a couple extra at bats the pitcher may get as the last hitter of an inning in the 5th/6th/7th, but I think that's a small enough amount to be nullified by the additional baserunners you'll have on for the top of the order.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Still seems to me like you're going to give more ABs to your worst hitters.

it's amounted to 14 more plate appearances in 58 games

[TheDude]

If we're trying to get Soriano more ABs with runners on, it's easier to just move him out of the top spot in the lineup.

That's the entire point though...the Cubs aren't going to do that. I'm just curious if this is a way to more closely simulate moving him down.

[cheapseats]

If we're trying to get Soriano more ABs with runners on, it's easier to just move him out of the top spot in the lineup.

That's the entire point though...the Cubs aren't going to do that. I'm just curious if this is a way to more closely simulate moving him down.

 

Lou's on record stating that he wouldn't bat the pitcher 8th, so the Cubs aren't doing that, either.

 

Studies have shown that it's a good idea, though.

[CubColtPacer]

If we're trying to get Soriano more ABs with runners on, it's easier to just move him out of the top spot in the lineup.

That's the entire point though...the Cubs aren't going to do that. I'm just curious if this is a way to more closely simulate moving him down.

 

Lou's on record stating that he wouldn't bat the pitcher 8th, so the Cubs aren't doing that, either.

 

Studies have shown that it's a good idea, though.

 

True. But it's one of those tiny insignificant ways to increase run production. I've seen people claim a 2-3 run difference over the course of the season. With that small of a difference in a big market like Chicago, it's really not worth the distraction to your team when you get called out on it everytime it doesn't work since it's unconventional. Plus the argument has been made that you'll get a very slight decrease in innings out of your starting pitchers using this format, and the Cubs need every inning out of their starters that they can get.

[Jehrico]

Still seems to me like you're going to give more ABs to your worst hitters.

it's amounted to 14 more plate appearances in 58 games

The only way the 8th slot gets more at bats in a game than the 9th slot is if the 8th slot ends the game (or gets the last out in the 8th, and the team doesn't need to bat in the 9th). If they're winning at the end of the game, who cares. If they're loosing, then that extra at bat is going to a pinch hitter, if the order hasn't already been shuffled due to a double switch. I can't see how the extra at bats a pitcher might get by batting 8th would realistically have a greater impact over the course of a season than having someone on base in front of Soriano (or Fuku or whoever bats second then, and then maybe Lee) more often.