Please trade Matt Murton

[Schwarber Fan]

He obviously has no spot on this team and he has looked horrible this year, unable to get the ball out of the infield. Trade him before he becomes a complete bust and no one wants the guy.

 

I think Matt has some solid potential, but his shot isn't going to come with the Cubs.

[BWcubs21]

He obviously has no spot on this team and he has looked horrible this year, unable to get the ball out of the infield. Trade him before he becomes a complete bust and no one wants the guy.

 

I think Matt has some solid potential, but his shot isn't going to come with the Cubs.

 

I don't think he has a ton a value at this point anyways.

[biittner77]

He obviously has no spot on this team and he has looked horrible this year, unable to get the ball out of the infield. Trade him before he becomes a complete bust and no one wants the guy.

 

I think Matt has some solid potential, but his shot isn't going to come with the Cubs.

 

I don't think he has a ton a value at this point anyways.

 

I think he has more value to the Cubs as a spare part than what they have been offered for him in a trade. It sucks for him personally but the Cubs are better off keeping him.

[Little Slide Rooter]

He obviously has no spot on this team and he has looked horrible this year, unable to get the ball out of the infield. Trade him before he becomes a complete bust and no one wants the guy.

 

I think Matt has some solid potential, but his shot isn't going to come with the Cubs.

 

I don't think he has a ton a value at this point anyways.

 

I think he has more value to the Cubs as a spare part than what they have been offered for him in a trade. It sucks for him personally but the Cubs are better off keeping him.

 

Maybe the Iowa Cubs are better off, but not us. The fact is, when Soriano comes back, hes going to the cornfields. Just let him go. I think he has some degree of potential for someone else, and hes not valuable enough as a spare part to keep him around for our own selfish needs. Someone like Josh Kroeger or Jake Fox could serve as a replacement just as well as Murton if someone else gos down.

[Tracer Bullet]

I'm a huge fan or Murton, but they need to send him to Iowa and hopefully have him put up another .900 OPS so they can trade him for something. He's a terrible PH and Lou clearly has no intention of playing him as anything else. I'd hope they could trade him to a team that he could start in LF, but at this point, anywhere is better than the Cubs (for the team and Matt).

 

I think they should have traded him in the off season when he was coming off his 2nd straight 2nd-half of great play and he had some trade value. JH said he was trying to trade him, but I don't think that's true. I think he wanted to get his 4th OF/platoon partner (RJ) before he traded Murton. Since that took all off season, Murton's still here and the trade partners are greatly reduced.

[YearofDaCubs]

I'm a huge fan or Murton, but they need to send him to Iowa and hopefully have him put up another .900 OPS so they can trade him for something. He's a terrible PH and Lou clearly has no intention of playing him as anything else. I'd hope they could trade him to a team that he could start in LF, but at this point, anywhere is better than the Cubs (for the team and Matt).

 

I think they should have traded him in the off season when he was coming off his 2nd straight 2nd-half of great play and he had some trade value. JH said he was trying to trade him, but I don't think that's true. I think he wanted to get his 4th OF/platoon partner (RJ) before he traded Murton. Since that took all off season, Murton's still here and the trade partners are greatly reduced.

I think Hendry was trying to trade him but maybe his asking price was too high. Murton will be a goner soon.

[Tracer Bullet]

I'm a huge fan or Murton, but they need to send him to Iowa and hopefully have him put up another .900 OPS so they can trade him for something. He's a terrible PH and Lou clearly has no intention of playing him as anything else. I'd hope they could trade him to a team that he could start in LF, but at this point, anywhere is better than the Cubs (for the team and Matt).

 

I think they should have traded him in the off season when he was coming off his 2nd straight 2nd-half of great play and he had some trade value. JH said he was trying to trade him, but I don't think that's true. I think he wanted to get his 4th OF/platoon partner (RJ) before he traded Murton. Since that took all off season, Murton's still here and the trade partners are greatly reduced.

I think Hendry was trying to trade him but maybe his asking price was too high. Murton will be a goner soon.

Possible. Rumors that he was offered for a top pitching prospect (from the Rays?), but also rumored to be offered for Byrd. Seems like opposite ends of the spectrum to me. Murton was available, but JH wasn't actively shopping him. Or maybe the GMs are hip to Jim's routine of trading certain guys for peanuts and are just waiting for Jim to bottom out.

[CoolHandLuke]

Should we really consider him to be "done" after a handful of at-bats this year, even though he has shown himself to be at least a decent hitter over 800 some odd at-bats over the past few years?

[Roast]

Should we really consider him to be "done" after a handful of at-bats this year, even though he has shown himself to be at least a decent hitter over 800 some odd at-bats over the past few years?

Uhm, yes, that's what knee-jerk reactions are all about.

 

 

That said, I am concerned about his groundball tendency. Last year I really started noticing that he almost always hit the ball on the ground and so for this season I don't think i've seen a single at bat where the ball didn't end up on the ground.

 

I know he's better than what he's showed but someone needs to work with him on his swing, and quick. That said - he was tearing up AAA and there's no way that all of those were grounders he hit down there. So I don't know. Anyway, I'm also in favor of trading him - not because he sucks but because he has nowhere to play on this team and he deserves to at least be on a big league roster, of not starting, somewhere.

[JeffH]

I know he's better than what he's showed but someone needs to work with him on his swing, and quick. That said - he was tearing up AAA and there's no way that all of those were grounders he hit down there.

 

No way? All of his hits were singles. I'd say it's entirely possible they were all grounders.

[Roast]

I know he's better than what he's showed but someone needs to work with him on his swing, and quick. That said - he was tearing up AAA and there's no way that all of those were grounders he hit down there.

 

No way? All of his hits were singles. I'd say it's entirely possible they were all grounders.

I was unaware that they were all singles.

[CoolHandLuke]

Yeah, I don't love Murton, and agree he should be traded as he doesn't have much of a spot on this team. Something is definitely going on with his swing right now, but there is no way he has fundamentally changed as a hitter.

 

It's a shame he can't play centerfield.

[TheDude]

What I find surprising is that people here are surprised. From what I can see, nothing has changed with Murton.

 

In 840 career MLB ABs, he has all of 71 extra base hits out of 247 hits. His percentage of extra base hits relative both ABs and total hits is only marginally better than Theriot's 60/214/758.

 

Murton, like Theriot, is a singles hitter. Except he plays outfield, with minimal speed and average defense. Murton brings very little to the table.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

What I find surprising is that people here are surprised. From what I can see, nothing has changed with Murton.

 

In 840 career MLB ABs, he has all of 71 extra base hits out of 247 hits. His percentage of extra base hits relative both ABs and total hits is only marginally better than Theriot's 60/214/758.

 

Murton, like Theriot, is a singles hitter. Except he plays outfield, with minimal speed and average defense. Murton brings very little to the table.

comparing Murton to Theriot offensively is laughable. there's a difference in OPS of around 80, and there's little reason to believe that difference will shrink

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

There is a mechanical glitch in his swing right now. The short version from what I saw on TV Sunday is that he is to stiff on the front leg when he tries to weight shift. Think running into a brick wall, you cant go forward like that so you bounce back. My question is how willing is he to listen to suggestions to change from what hints have been dropped in the papers. Personally I think if he can make some adjustments in his swing he could be a .300/ .400 / .750+ as an everyday player.

 

Edited to fix typo.

[TruffleShuffle]

There is a mechanical glitch in his swing right now. The short version from what I saw on TV Sunday is that he is to stiff on the front leg when he tries to weight shift. Think running into a brick wall, you cant go forward like that so you bounce back. My question is how willing is he to listen to suggestions to change from what hints have been dropped in the papers. Personally I think if he can make some adjustments in his swing he could be a .300/ .400 / .750+ as an everyday player.

 

Edited to fix typo.

 

what is this? BA/OBP/OPS? If the 750+ is slugging, that is completely insane.

[brinoch]

Should we really consider him to be "done" after a handful of at-bats this year, even though he has shown himself to be at least a decent hitter over 800 some odd at-bats over the past few years?

 

No, we shouldn't. Murton is a solid hitter.

[Northsider]

Not quite what I'm seeing with the swing.

 

What I see (admittedly, I haven't seen much) is that he's still getting the bat around late (which is why he's always hit to opposite field), but the bat is angled downwards and the result is that he's hitting the top of the ball and knocking it into the ground.

 

(lines are the bat, o's are the ball)

In other words, the plane of his swing is, from a pitcher's perspective: /

And his bat is hitting the ball at this point, side perspective: /o

 

So I'd argue he needs to:

EITHER swing earlier and try to get around on the ball

Same pitcher's perspective as above

Side-view: |o or \o

I speculate that swinging earlier would result in less selectivity at the plate and result in a decreased OBP, though.

OR straighten out the swing so that the plane of the bat is parallel to the ground

Pitcher's perspective: --

Side-view: -o-

I believe this is the better of the two options and should essentially make Murton the opposite-field line-drive hitter he userd to be.

 

Admittedly, I'm not by any means an expert in this field, an in fact I'm largely working my tennis experience (placement of the ball by choosing where to hit the ball itself) and original research by this guy: http://www.batspeed.com/ into my analysis. Please criticize so I can learn more about this.

[SouthSideRyan]

There is a mechanical glitch in his swing right now. The short version from what I saw on TV Sunday is that he is to stiff on the front leg when he tries to weight shift. Think running into a brick wall, you cant go forward like that so you bounce back. My question is how willing is he to listen to suggestions to change from what hints have been dropped in the papers. Personally I think if he can make some adjustments in his swing he could be a .300/ .400 / .750+ as an everyday player.

 

Edited to fix typo.

 

what is this? BA/OBP/OPS? If the 750+ is slugging, that is completely insane.

 

If it's a 750 OPS with a 400 OBP, that's also pretty insane.

[TheDude]

What I find surprising is that people here are surprised. From what I can see, nothing has changed with Murton.

 

In 840 career MLB ABs, he has all of 71 extra base hits out of 247 hits. His percentage of extra base hits relative both ABs and total hits is only marginally better than Theriot's 60/214/758.

 

Murton, like Theriot, is a singles hitter. Except he plays outfield, with minimal speed and average defense. Murton brings very little to the table.

comparing Murton to Theriot offensively is laughable. there's a difference in OPS of around 80, and there's little reason to believe that difference will shrink

 

Why is laughable, because you don't like the numbers? Obviously Murton is the better hitter between him and Theriot in a straight comparison of bottom line production, almost solely because of HR power. But that wasn't my point.

 

The reality of what I said is true: When Murton has come to the plate in the bigs, he has marginally outproduced Theriot in extra base hits. The difference in OPS is due to almost exclusively to the HR power Theriot lacks. If you normalize the difference in ABs, and shift about a dozen of Theriot's doubles to HRs, you close that OPS difference dramatically (I believe you can roughly equalize to under .10 difference by shifting 18 doubles to HR).

 

Consider these numbers on % of hits that are extra base hits (MLB career):

 

Theriot 28.1%

DeRosa 29.8%

Murton 28.7%

Soriano 43.1%

Lee 41.6%

Ramirez 40%

Juan Pierre 17.6% (for bottom end comparison)

 

My point was this: so far Murton has shown he is primarily a singles hitter. Even his .900+ OPS AA and AAA years reflect this (30.7%), demonstrating that the difference between his 840 MLB ABs and his selective best minor league years (just shy of 500 ABs) OPS is increased AVG without respect to increase power ratio. He simply had more hits in those with the same extra bases distribution.

 

If Murton wants stick as an everyday guy in the bigs, he has to start turning some of those singles into doubles, because right now he is just as much a singles hitter as Theriot or DeRosa.

 

Theriot can get away with it at SS. DeRosa can get away with it at 2B. But that doesn't work for a corner OF that doesn't bring plus defense or speed or arm. Murton is in danger of only fitting onto a losing roster with a lot of holes or rebuilding programs, like Washington or Florida.

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

Not quite what I'm seeing with the swing.

 

What I see (admittedly, I haven't seen much) is that he's still getting the bat around late (which is why he's always hit to opposite field), but the bat is angled downwards and the result is that he's hitting the top of the ball and knocking it into the ground.

 

(lines are the bat, o's are the ball)

In other words, the plane of his swing is, from a pitcher's perspective: /

And his bat is hitting the ball at this point, side perspective: /o

 

So I'd argue he needs to:

EITHER swing earlier and try to get around on the ball

Same pitcher's perspective as above

Side-view: |o or \o

I speculate that swinging earlier would result in less selectivity at the plate and result in a decreased OBP, though.

OR straighten out the swing so that the plane of the bat is parallel to the ground

Pitcher's perspective: --

Side-view: -o-

I believe this is the better of the two options and should essentially make Murton the opposite-field line-drive hitter he userd to be.

 

Admittedly, I'm not by any means an expert in this field, an in fact I'm largely working my tennis experience (placement of the ball by choosing where to hit the ball itself) and original research by this guy: http://www.batspeed.com/ into my analysis. Please criticize so I can learn more about this.

 

 

Try taking your tennis swing while falling back and up. IMO that is what Murton is seeing right now when he swings. Because he is fighting his body, trying to weight shift and stopping himself from doing so, his swing is slowed causing what you are seeing with bat angle. He is wonderful staying level through his swing. This is why he is still making contact like he does. Just like a tennis swing the longer you stay in the zone to strike the ball the better the opportunity to make contact, right?

 

Do this yourself. Start with your feet sholder width apart in a good athletic stance. Now slide your foot toward the "pitcher" about six inches and shift your weight to about 20/80 to the back foot (front/back). Firm the front leg to the point that it is "locked". Now take a swing using weight shift without "unlocking" the front leg. You will find your body can not shift the weight and you too will experince the "bounce back" that I was talking about.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

If you normalize the difference in ABs, and shift about a dozen of Theriot's doubles to HRs, you close that OPS difference dramatically (I believe you can roughly equalize to under .10 difference by shifting 18 doubles to HR).

while we're at it, let's also shift about a dozen of Murton's strikeouts to triples

[Mizzou]

If you normalize the difference in ABs, and shift about a dozen of Theriot's doubles to HRs, you close that OPS difference dramatically (I believe you can roughly equalize to under .10 difference by shifting 18 doubles to HR).

while we're at it, let's also shift about a dozen of Murton's strikeouts to triples

Not to specifically call you out, but I hate when people do this. And what I mean is that when one poster (The Dude in this instance) makes a very good, lengthy post, and then someone else takes a tiny portion of it and says something smartassed. Why don't you just respond to the actual post?

[Tracer Bullet]

If you normalize the difference in ABs, and shift about a dozen of Theriot's doubles to HRs, you close that OPS difference dramatically (I believe you can roughly equalize to under .10 difference by shifting 18 doubles to HR).

while we're at it, let's also shift about a dozen of Murton's strikeouts to triples

Not to specifically call you out, but I hate when people do this. And what I mean is that when one poster (The Dude in this instance) makes a very good, lengthy post, and then someone else takes a tiny portion of it and says something smartassed. Why don't you just respond to the actual post?

 

Seriously? The Dude says you can equate 2 guys by taking 12-18 doubles from one and making them HRs. In 2800 ABs in the minors and majors, Theriot has 12 total HRs. I think Bob Sanders' response was deserved. How would you suggest responding to "I'm going to create a fiction that supports my point and ignores reality...BAM. As you can see, I'm right."

[Illini Iceman]

If you normalize the difference in ABs, and shift about a dozen of Theriot's doubles to HRs, you close that OPS difference dramatically (I believe you can roughly equalize to under .10 difference by shifting 18 doubles to HR).

while we're at it, let's also shift about a dozen of Murton's strikeouts to triples

Not to specifically call you out, but I hate when people do this. And what I mean is that when one poster (The Dude in this instance) makes a very good, lengthy post, and then someone else takes a tiny portion of it and says something smartassed. Why don't you just respond to the actual post?

 

Seriously? The Dude says you can equate 2 guys by taking 12-18 doubles from one and making them HRs. In 2800 ABs in the minors and majors, Theriot has 12 total HRs. I think Bob Sanders' response was deserved. How would you suggest responding to "I'm going to create a fiction that supports my point and ignores reality...BAM. As you can see, I'm right."

 

The way I took it was that considering how much support Murton gets here compared to the abuse Theriot takes they are not that far off from each other in production.

 

I like Murton, but I think he either needs to learn to play off the bench or start developing more power, otherwise it is going to be hard for him to find ana regular job in the big leagues. If he was a middle infielder he probably would get some opportunities, but as a corner outfielder that is at best average defensively he would need to find a team with a lot of production other places in the line up to make up for his lack of slugging as a left fielder.

 

As for trading him because it is "best" for him, meh. Keep him around as insurance in AAA unless someone blows the Cubs away with an offer or they can use him as a key component in a multi player deal.