Dusty Hates Young Players

[YearofDaCubs]

I didn't know Cueto was that damn good. 97 with change and slider?

I have been preaching Cueto over Homer for well over a year now, and people are finally starting to come around. He has pinpoint control as well. The only reason he wasn't getting more hype then Bailey is because he is only 5-11. Edinson Volquez was making the Yankees look silly (8 Ks, 0 BB in 4 IP) with his heat (upper 90s) and change the other night. He's a step below Cueto though because his curve/slider is a work in progress.

I think the Reds(save for Baker) are headed in the right direction. They have some really good prospects. I wish we had a Jay Bruce-type prospect in the wings.

[TruffleShuffle]

I didn't know Cueto was that damn good. 97 with change and slider?

I have been preaching Cueto over Homer for well over a year now, and people are finally starting to come around. He has pinpoint control as well. The only reason he wasn't getting more hype then Bailey is because he is only 5-11. Edinson Volquez was making the Yankees look silly (8 Ks, 0 BB in 4 IP) with his heat (upper 90s) and change the other night. He's a step below Cueto though because his curve/slider is a work in progress.

I think the Reds(save for Baker) are headed in the right direction. They have some really good prospects. I wish we had a Jay Bruce-type prospect in the wings.

 

cubs were "headed in the right direction" in 2003, we all know how that turned out.

[reds44]

I didn't know Cueto was that damn good. 97 with change and slider?

I have been preaching Cueto over Homer for well over a year now, and people are finally starting to come around. He has pinpoint control as well. The only reason he wasn't getting more hype then Bailey is because he is only 5-11. Edinson Volquez was making the Yankees look silly (8 Ks, 0 BB in 4 IP) with his heat (upper 90s) and change the other night. He's a step below Cueto though because his curve/slider is a work in progress.

I think the Reds(save for Baker) are headed in the right direction. They have some really good prospects. I wish we had a Jay Bruce-type prospect in the wings.

 

cubs were "headed in the right direction" in 2003, we all know how that turned out.

They ended up 5 outs away from the World Series?

[TruffleShuffle]

I didn't know Cueto was that damn good. 97 with change and slider?

I have been preaching Cueto over Homer for well over a year now, and people are finally starting to come around. He has pinpoint control as well. The only reason he wasn't getting more hype then Bailey is because he is only 5-11. Edinson Volquez was making the Yankees look silly (8 Ks, 0 BB in 4 IP) with his heat (upper 90s) and change the other night. He's a step below Cueto though because his curve/slider is a work in progress.

I think the Reds(save for Baker) are headed in the right direction. They have some really good prospects. I wish we had a Jay Bruce-type prospect in the wings.

 

cubs were "headed in the right direction" in 2003, we all know how that turned out.

They ended up 5 outs away from the World Series?

 

yeah then they missed the playoffs with one of the best teams in baseball in 2004, then mediocre in 2005, then one of the worst teams in baseball in 2006. and all that from a team that had what was regarded as the best starting rotation in baseball, four guys in their 20s.

[CubinNY]

I didn't know Cueto was that damn good. 97 with change and slider?

I have been preaching Cueto over Homer for well over a year now, and people are finally starting to come around. He has pinpoint control as well. The only reason he wasn't getting more hype then Bailey is because he is only 5-11. Edinson Volquez was making the Yankees look silly (8 Ks, 0 BB in 4 IP) with his heat (upper 90s) and change the other night. He's a step below Cueto though because his curve/slider is a work in progress.

I think the Reds(save for Baker) are headed in the right direction. They have some really good prospects. I wish we had a Jay Bruce-type prospect in the wings.

 

cubs were "headed in the right direction" in 2003, we all know how that turned out.

They ended up 5 outs away from the World Series?

 

yeah then they missed the playoffs with one of the best teams in baseball in 2004, then mediocre in 2005, then one of the worst teams in baseball in 2006. and all that from a team that had what was regarded as the best starting rotation in baseball, four guys in their 20s.

If things fall out like they did in chicago the Reds will be more worse off then the Cubs, because they don't have the talent of the 03 Cubs. In many respects the Cubs were a much better fit for Dusty than the Reds. The Reds actually have good prospects and good core of players for Dusty to misuse and abuse. It's hard for me to see how a team could be more illsuited for a manger, that is except for the LA Dodgers and Joe Torre.

[XZero771679666304]

If things fall out like they did in chicago the Reds will be more worse off then the Cubs, because they don't have the talent of the 03 Cubs. In many respects the Cubs were a much better fit for Dusty than the Reds. The Reds actually have good prospects and good core of players for Dusty to misuse and abuse. It's hard for me to see how a team could be more illsuited for a manger, that is except for the LA Dodgers and Joe Torre.

 

I'm pretty sure the Reds may have as much talent as the 2003 Cubs.

 

Not all loaded into the front end of the rotation like the 2003 Cubs, but more overall, and certainly as far as young offensive players go.

 

But you are right about the Reds being maybe the worst possible fit. Dusty likes to abuse the pitchers, and that is where the Cubs' talent was. But Dusty will do everything in his power to plug vets into the lineup. Bruce, Votto and company have an uphill battle.

[TruffleShuffle]

If things fall out like they did in chicago the Reds will be more worse off then the Cubs, because they don't have the talent of the 03 Cubs. In many respects the Cubs were a much better fit for Dusty than the Reds. The Reds actually have good prospects and good core of players for Dusty to misuse and abuse. It's hard for me to see how a team could be more illsuited for a manger, that is except for the LA Dodgers and Joe Torre.

 

I'm pretty sure the Reds may have as much talent as the 2003 Cubs.

 

Not all loaded into the front end of the rotation like the 2003 Cubs, but more overall, and certainly as far as young offensive players go.

 

But you are right about the Reds being maybe the worst possible fit. Dusty likes to abuse the pitchers, and that is where the Cubs' talent was. But Dusty will do everything in his power to plug vets into the lineup. Bruce, Votto and company have an uphill battle.

 

they also have a lot of hitters who are patient, and that doesn't go over well in dusty-ball

[reds44]

I asked Dusty Baker after the game the obvious question:

 

Are Edinson Volquez and Johnny Cueto separating themselves from the rest of pitchers competing for the rotation?

 

"You want me to say it or are you going to say," Baker said. "They're pitching like they belong along side (Aaron) Harang and (Bronson) Arroyo in the rotation. They're dealing. They came in ready to pitch. They played Winter Ball so they're ahead, not so much with velocity but with command. That's what you need. They're pounding the strike zone. If you walk people, you have no chance. If you get behind people, you have little chance.

 

"We need them."

 

There you have it: If season started today, the rotation would be Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Volquez and probably Josh Fogg.

He HATES them.

 

Dusty has his good qualities and his bad qualities. He's been great with the players this spring, especially the young guys. However it's a very realistic possibility that CPatt is going to be the starting CF in two weeks. D'oh.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Volquez and Cuetto he'll love. He'll consistently run them out there for 110-125 pitch counts.

 

It's the position players you'll need to worry about. Votto and Bruce will be on very short leashes while veteran hitters will have their mistakes glossed over.

[reds44]

Volquez and Cuetto he'll love. He'll consistently run them out there for 110-125 pitch counts.

 

It's the position players you'll need to worry about. Votto and Bruce will be on very short leashes while veteran hitters will have their mistakes glossed over.

Will he? It's not hard for a GM to put a pitcher on a pitch count. Krivsky did it with Bailey last year.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Volquez and Cuetto he'll love. He'll consistently run them out there for 110-125 pitch counts.

 

It's the position players you'll need to worry about. Votto and Bruce will be on very short leashes while veteran hitters will have their mistakes glossed over.

Will he? It's not hard for a GM to put a pitcher on a pitch count. Krivsky did it with Bailey last year.

 

So, you think after all these years Dusty is going to change? Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Swift, Livian Hernandez, Russ Ortiz, and others all were in the top of PAP as pitchers for Dusty. A leopard doesn't change his spots. Keep sticking your head in the sand and be a [expletive] and make comments about people's family while Dusty ruins the careers of your young starters. Maybe some of those will be like Livian and Zambrano and survive...on the other hand if they are more like Prior or Billy Swift, it could be a torturous thing. The team might do well this year with Dusty's rah-rah style, but the fall off will come. We've seen it. Giants fans before us saw it. Dusty is not a good manager. And by the time his contract is up, I'm guessing he'll be as divisive among Reds fans as he was among Cub fans and Giants fans before him.

[Bote McBoteface]

If you walk people, you have no chance. If you get behind people, you have little chance.

 

I don't get it. He realizes that walks and patient hitters hurt his pitchers, but he doesn't correlate that to how walks and patient hitters will help his offense.

[Anthony]

Maybe Dusty will play the young Reds position players more because they are better prospects then what he had with the Cubs? I'm sorry, but with the exception of Murton, who is criminally underused, how many of our young players were highly rated prospects or have ever shown that they would be good players? Cedeno? DuBois? Pagan? Jay Bruce is a better prospect then any we've had during the Baker era.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Maybe Dusty will play the young Reds position players more because they are better prospects then what he had with the Cubs? I'm sorry, but with the exception of Murton, who is criminally underused, how many of our young players were highly rated prospects or have ever shown that they would be good players? Cedeno? DuBois? Pagan? Jay Bruce is a better prospect then any we've had during the Baker era.

 

 

I think someone has already posted on this in another thread, but Choi, Patterson, Cruz et al were equally rated as prospects as Bruce, Votto, Cuetto, etc. I don't mean to say that Bruce, Votto, and Cuetto will follow similar paths, but to say the Cubs didn't have highly valued prospects when Dusty arrived isn't true. Our farm system at the time was just as highly regarded as the Reds is at this time.

 

Here it is. I copied this info from one of O_O's post in another thread, but here goes.

 

2002

2) Mark Prior

6) Juan Cruz

40) Hee Seop Choi

45) David Kelton

48) Bobby Hill

68) Nic Jackson

80) Carlos Zambrano

 

2003

22) Hee Seop Choi

47) Angel Guzman

53) Andy Sisco

72) Felix Pie

100) Nic Jackson

 

2004

26) Angel Guzman

56) Justin Jones

65) Ryan Harvey

77) Andy Sisco

85) Felix Pie

92) Bobby Brownlie

 

2005

21) Brian Dopirak

31) Felix Pie

66) Ryan Harvey

88) Angel Guzman

 

2006

27) Felix Pie

85) Mark Pawelek

94) Ronny Cedeno

 

The Cubs did have some highly rated prospects in the Dusty era, while it's true most didn't work out. Could the same be true of the Reds' prospects? I don't know. But to assume the Reds are better set up with young talent going into 2007 than the Cubs were going into 2003 could not be further from the truth.

[Derwood]

i was in Cincy yesterday and happened to catch a snippet of the local call-in show. a cubs fan called in to warn them about dusty (though we wasn't very articulate) and the hosts downplayed it and said they had supreme confidence in baker. so deluded

[rocket]

I asked Dusty Baker after the game the obvious question:

 

Are Edinson Volquez and Johnny Cueto separating themselves from the rest of pitchers competing for the rotation?

 

"You want me to say it or are you going to say," Baker said. "They're pitching like they belong along side (Aaron) Harang and (Bronson) Arroyo in the rotation. They're dealing. They came in ready to pitch. They played Winter Ball so they're ahead, not so much with velocity but with command. That's what you need. They're pounding the strike zone. If you walk people, you have no chance. If you get behind people, you have little chance.

 

"We need them."

 

There you have it: If season started today, the rotation would be Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Volquez and probably Josh Fogg.

He HATES them.

 

Dusty has his good qualities and his bad qualities. He's been great with the players this spring, especially the young guys. However it's a very realistic possibility that CPatt is going to be the starting CF in two weeks. D'oh.

 

dusty LOVES young arms. he HATES young bats.

[rocket]

i was in Cincy yesterday and happened to catch a snippet of the local call-in show. a cubs fan called in to warn them about dusty (though we wasn't very articulate) and the hosts downplayed it and said they had supreme confidence in baker. so deluded

 

the 700 wlw morons are in love with dusty.

 

when i was listening to them yesterday, they were praising how dusty has the balls to give scott hatteberg the leg-up in the 1st baseman competition because votto is having a crappy spring, and how they agreed that votto needed to prove himself at aaa louisville.

 

it's all pretty hilarious.

[wade]

i was in Cincy yesterday and happened to catch a snippet of the local call-in show. a cubs fan called in to warn them about dusty (though we wasn't very articulate) and the hosts downplayed it and said they had supreme confidence in baker. so deluded

 

the 700 wlw morons are in love with dusty.

 

when i was listening to them yesterday, they were praising how dusty has the balls to give scott hatteberg the leg-up in the 1st baseman competition because votto is having a crappy spring, and how they agreed that votto needed to prove himself at aaa louisville.

 

it's all pretty hilarious.

 

I've heard those guys plenty. Dusty is this perfect manager for them. With their anti-Dunn bias and Baker egging him on to stop walking, it could make for interesting listening.

[Derwood]

i was in Cincy yesterday and happened to catch a snippet of the local call-in show. a cubs fan called in to warn them about dusty (though we wasn't very articulate) and the hosts downplayed it and said they had supreme confidence in baker. so deluded

 

the 700 wlw morons are in love with dusty.

 

when i was listening to them yesterday, they were praising how dusty has the balls to give scott hatteberg the leg-up in the 1st baseman competition because votto is having a crappy spring, and how they agreed that votto needed to prove himself at aaa louisville.

 

it's all pretty hilarious.

 

I've heard those guys plenty. Dusty is this perfect manager for them. With their anti-Dunn bias and Baker egging him on to stop walking, it could make for interesting listening.

 

yeah, those were the guys I heard. I was searching AM radio for the March Madness brackets but had them talking about Dusty instead

[reds44]

the majority of the Reds fan base is too busy looking for the next Pete Rose to know anything about baseball. They love Ryan Freel and hate Adam Dunn.

 

I don't get it either. If people can't see the flaws in Dusty then they are blind.

[Clem Fandango]

Awesome. Johnny Cueto will be to the Reds as Mark Prior was to the Cubs! Yaaaay!

[Bote McBoteface]

Awesome. Johnny Cueto will be to the Reds as Mark Prior was to the Cubs! Yaaaay!

 

Yeah, but everybody sees it coming this time, which makes it a lot better.

 

I wonder if Cueto has scheduled his off season surgery yet?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Based on spring numbers, I wouldn't be surprised if Hatteberg becomes the first baseman and Votto could be in AAA.

[NCCubFan]

poor reds44. he's just like a lot of us were in 2003. some giants fans tried to warn us, but dusty talked a pretty good game and came with a good career record.

I remember that from the cubs.com board. I'm one of those who thought the Giants fans were all wet. I soon saw the error of my ways. Reds44 will too.

[YearofDaCubs]

I'm just so glad that he's out of here. There's so much to dislike about Dusty and that's a fact.