While we're waiting for the Roberts deal

[RammyFanny]

The Padres currently have Scott Hairston starting in LF. We currently have Matt Murton not starting in left or right field.

 

Others would be needed, obviously, but I still see potential.

[wrigley23]

in most rankings that i've seen...roberts is the 5th rated 2B & DeRosa is rated in the 20's. Roberts is an all-star, a switch hitter, a leadoff hitter & stole 50 bases a yr ago w/ a high OBP. DeRosa has started only a few yrs consistently during his big league career. He does not lead off, switch hit & is considered by most in baseball circles as an ideal utility/supersub.

[HoopsCubs]

hoops...this club needs a legit leadoff hitter. you don't agree?

 

I'm not saying I'm right, but when I think about the subject of player upgrades, I think about it in terms of performance by position on the field, not batting order.

I like Brian Roberts. And if you told me that acquiring him would mean that Mark DeRosa was shifting to SS, I'd be all over the deal.

 

But everything we have heard to date suggests that the only thing a Roberts acquisition does is make DeRosa a "super-sub." That means Ryan Theriot is still starting at SS, and I (like many others here) have a huge problem with that coupled with Felix Pie starting in CF. Their OBPs suggest we will have near 3 automatic outs everytime through the line-up. That's unacceptable for a team spending $125M.

 

Roberts may be better that DeRosa, but the difference is slight in my opinion. The real opportunity is to upgrade at SS and/or CF. The trade focus should be on those positions and a #2 starter.

[wrigley23]

thanks for the update Bruce. I really do appreciate it as well as your opinion. I agree with everything you are saying. I just have never liked Soriano leading off & I see Roberts as a perfect fit for our offensive needs as was fuko so feel we are definitely going in the right direction there. I'm equally as concerned w/ our closer. It is amazing that we still have as many holes as we do w/ this size of payroll.

[HoopsCubs]

thanks for the update Bruce. I really do appreciate it as well as your opinion. I agree with everything you are saying. I just have never liked Soriano leading off & I see Roberts as a perfect fit for our offensive needs as was fuko so feel we are definitely going in the right direction there. I'm equally as concerned w/ our closer. It is amazing that we still have as many holes as we do w/ this size of payroll.

 

I'm Hoops - please don't insult Mr. Miles by calling me Bruce.

As for holes despite a large payroll, that's what happens when you pay the Jason Marquis' of the world $21M and the Stevie Eyres of the world $12M. That's $11M per year of payroll on below average performance.

[wrigley23]

I agree Bruce...er...hoops :D

[Mephistopheles]

another option: melvin mora. defense wouldn't be good though. then again neither is theriots

[davearm2]

hoops...this club needs a legit leadoff hitter. you don't agree?

 

I'm not saying I'm right, but when I think about the subject of player upgrades, I think about it in terms of performance by position on the field, not batting order.

I like Brian Roberts. And if you told me that acquiring him would mean that Mark DeRosa was shifting to SS, I'd be all over the deal.

 

But everything we have heard to date suggests that the only thing a Roberts acquisition does is make DeRosa a "super-sub." That means Ryan Theriot is still starting at SS, and I (like many others here) have a huge problem with that coupled with Felix Pie starting in CF. Their OBPs suggest we will have near 3 automatic outs everytime through the line-up. That's unacceptable for a team spending $125M.

 

Roberts may be better that DeRosa, but the difference is slight in my opinion. The real opportunity is to upgrade at SS and/or CF. The trade focus should be on those positions and a #2 starter.

Ideally, acquiring Roberts would mean Mark DeRosa is shifting to AJ Burnett (not straight up of course, but with DeRosa a key piece).

 

Who knows the validity, but that rumor's out there.

[biittner77]

another option: melvin mora. defense wouldn't be good though. then again neither is theriots

 

Melvin Mora is old and declining and probably hasn't played SS in years but he's still an upgrade over Theriot. :cry:

[Backtobanks]

hoops...this club needs a legit leadoff hitter. you don't agree?

 

I'm not saying I'm right, but when I think about the subject of player upgrades, I think about it in terms of performance by position on the field, not batting order.

I like Brian Roberts. And if you told me that acquiring him would mean that Mark DeRosa was shifting to SS, I'd be all over the deal.

 

But everything we have heard to date suggests that the only thing a Roberts acquisition does is make DeRosa a "super-sub." That means Ryan Theriot is still starting at SS, and I (like many others here) have a huge problem with that coupled with Felix Pie starting in CF. Their OBPs suggest we will have near 3 automatic outs everytime through the line-up. That's unacceptable for a team spending $125M.

 

Roberts may be better that DeRosa, but the difference is slight in my opinion. The real opportunity is to upgrade at SS and/or CF. The trade focus should be on those positions and a #2 starter.

 

Finally, someone that totally agrees with me. Using Cedeno, Marshall, Gallagher, Murton, Dempster, Marquis, Patterson, plus whatever other youngsters should have been enough to get a decent SS/CF and starting pitcher instead of a marginal upgrade at 2B.

[jersey cubs fan]

hoops...this club needs a legit leadoff hitter. you don't agree?

 

I'm not saying I'm right, but when I think about the subject of player upgrades, I think about it in terms of performance by position on the field, not batting order.

I like Brian Roberts. And if you told me that acquiring him would mean that Mark DeRosa was shifting to SS, I'd be all over the deal.

 

But everything we have heard to date suggests that the only thing a Roberts acquisition does is make DeRosa a "super-sub." That means Ryan Theriot is still starting at SS, and I (like many others here) have a huge problem with that coupled with Felix Pie starting in CF. Their OBPs suggest we will have near 3 automatic outs everytime through the line-up. That's unacceptable for a team spending $125M.

 

Roberts may be better that DeRosa, but the difference is slight in my opinion. The real opportunity is to upgrade at SS and/or CF. The trade focus should be on those positions and a #2 starter.

 

Finally, someone that totally agrees with me. Using Cedeno, Marshall, Gallagher, Murton, Dempster, Marquis, Patterson, plus whatever other youngsters should have been enough to get a decent SS/CF and starting pitcher instead of a marginal upgrade at 2B.

 

I agree with the sentiment. The problem, as I see it, is they aren't going to upgrade SS regardless. So, it's either further upgrade the lineup with the move to Roberts, or don't upgrade the lineup. I'm always looking for this team to improve. And I'm fairly certain Hendry is too (we just disagree on the best way to do go about it). I already know that Hendry is incapable of efficiently increasing the expected win total of this team. Not that I excuse the problem, it's just I'd rather see them improve than stay stagnant.

[inari]

in most rankings that i've seen...roberts is the 5th rated 2B & DeRosa is rated in the 20's. Roberts is an all-star, a switch hitter, a leadoff hitter & stole 50 bases a yr ago w/ a high OBP. DeRosa has started only a few yrs consistently during his big league career. He does not lead off, switch hit & is considered by most in baseball circles as an ideal utility/supersub.

 

Most rankings? As in... fantasy rankings? Because that would make Alfonso Soriano one of the game's absolute elite outfielders and make Juan Pierre something besides crap.

 

And leadoff hitter is not a position. Who cares.

[Lefty]

Crosby intrigues me. With what is going on in Oakland, Beane might just take a player who is somewhat projectable without service time. And if Crosby is hurt or sucks, we're no worse off.

 

Just looked up Crosby's splits. Lifetime away from Oakland his OBP is .312 and his SLG is .403. He probably projects a little higher in the NL. I am pretty sure he is better defensively than Theriot. So if he stays healthy, but plays at the same disappointing level, he is Alex Gonzalez (either one). That's a step up (for the regular season).

[wrigley23]

who cares if leadoff isn't a position. what's your point? roberts is a big upgrade to soriano at leadoff so that makes the team better w/ an extra bat in the middle & a 40 pt OBP lift to start the game. for those saying that the leadoff hitter only leads off the game...many times the pitcher ends up making the last out so i'd guess the leadoff hitter actually starts an inning on average 2-2.5 times/game. soriano has had many lower leg injuries including last year & he makes very poor judgements in running the bases. I think our hitting lineup w/ roberts & fuko is greatly improved. if we take another step to get figgins for cf then it takes yet another step w/ OBP-type players.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Chone Figguns isn't an OBP guy, he was last year, but we all know that was a fluke.

[rawaction]

Chone Figguns isn't an OBP guy, he was last year, but we all know that was a fluke.

 

Career .354 OBP. He's not a machine, but he's well above average at getting on base. His ISOD has been pretty consistent in every year. So, yeah while 2007 was a fluke due to his .330 average, 2006 probably has to be with his .267 average. Every other season he's been dead on his career numbers and if you average his 06-07, it's eerily similar.

[Banedon]

If we trade Gallagher, Marshall, and Cedeno...how in the world would we have enough propsects left to trade for Figgins and/or another starter?

[David]

who cares if leadoff isn't a position. what's your point? roberts is a big upgrade to soriano at leadoff so that makes the team better w/ an extra bat in the middle & a 40 pt OBP lift to start the game. for those saying that the leadoff hitter only leads off the game...many times the pitcher ends up making the last out so i'd guess the leadoff hitter actually starts an inning on average 2-2.5 times/game. soriano has had many lower leg injuries including last year & he makes very poor judgements in running the bases. I think our hitting lineup w/ roberts & fuko is greatly improved. if we take another step to get figgins for cf then it takes yet another step w/ OBP-type players.

 

 

lawl... amazingly awesome and well supported logic.

[Banedon]

who cares if leadoff isn't a position. what's your point? roberts is a big upgrade to soriano at leadoff so that makes the team better w/ an extra bat in the middle & a 40 pt OBP lift to start the game. for those saying that the leadoff hitter only leads off the game...many times the pitcher ends up making the last out so i'd guess the leadoff hitter actually starts an inning on average 2-2.5 times/game. soriano has had many lower leg injuries including last year & he makes very poor judgements in running the bases. I think our hitting lineup w/ roberts & fuko is greatly improved. if we take another step to get figgins for cf then it takes yet another step w/ OBP-type players.

 

 

lawl... amazingly awesome and well supported logic.

 

This explains why the O's would want to trade Brian Roberts. They don't need a leadoff hitter since the pitcher never bats.

[David]

OBP is needed throughout the lineup, not just at the top. It is what defines a good offensive player inherently (well, that, and slugging ability, but OBP is more important). It tells you how good a player is at not making outs, which is the name of the game if you want to score runs.

 

I'm just tired of hearing that we need OBP at the top, or that we need this at the middle, and this at the bottom. We need OBP everywhere, regardless of lineup position.

[wrigley23]

agreed david although it is even more important at the top.

[inari]

who cares if leadoff isn't a position. what's your point? roberts is a big upgrade to soriano at leadoff so that makes the team better w/ an extra bat in the middle & a 40 pt OBP lift to start the game. for those saying that the leadoff hitter only leads off the game...many times the pitcher ends up making the last out so i'd guess the leadoff hitter actually starts an inning on average 2-2.5 times/game. soriano has had many lower leg injuries including last year & he makes very poor judgements in running the bases. I think our hitting lineup w/ roberts & fuko is greatly improved. if we take another step to get figgins for cf then it takes yet another step w/ OBP-type players.

 

My point is that his ability to "be a leadoff hitter" is irrelevant. I want good hitters. Roberts is one, but it has nothing to do with the fact he can lead off.

[fromthestretch]

who cares if leadoff isn't a position. what's your point? roberts is a big upgrade to soriano at leadoff so that makes the team better w/ an extra bat in the middle & a 40 pt OBP lift to start the game. for those saying that the leadoff hitter only leads off the game...many times the pitcher ends up making the last out so i'd guess the leadoff hitter actually starts an inning on average 2-2.5 times/game. soriano has had many lower leg injuries including last year & he makes very poor judgements in running the bases. I think our hitting lineup w/ roberts & fuko is greatly improved. if we take another step to get figgins for cf then it takes yet another step w/ OBP-type players.

 

And you guessed wrong.

 

Let's take Jimmy Rollins as an example, since he was in the NL and served as the Phillies lead-off hitter most of the season. Rollins had 778 plate appearances last season, which not only led the majors in 2007 but also established a single-season major league record. He had 675 of them batting in the first spot in the order. In 153 games played, he led off an inning a total of 287 times, which comes out to 1.88 times per game.

[David]

My favorite was the "many times the pitcher makes the last out" part.

[rawaction]

who cares if leadoff isn't a position. what's your point? roberts is a big upgrade to soriano at leadoff so that makes the team better w/ an extra bat in the middle & a 40 pt OBP lift to start the game. for those saying that the leadoff hitter only leads off the game...many times the pitcher ends up making the last out so i'd guess the leadoff hitter actually starts an inning on average 2-2.5 times/game. soriano has had many lower leg injuries including last year & he makes very poor judgements in running the bases. I think our hitting lineup w/ roberts & fuko is greatly improved. if we take another step to get figgins for cf then it takes yet another step w/ OBP-type players.

 

And you guessed wrong.

 

Let's take Jimmy Rollins as an example, since he was in the NL and served as the Phillies lead-off hitter most of the season. Rollins had 778 plate appearances last season, which not only led the majors in 2007 but also established a single-season major league record. He had 675 of them batting in the first spot in the order. In 153 games played, he led off an inning a total of 287 times, which comes out to 1.88 times per game.

 

What if you take out the 100 PAs he didn't hit 1st? I'd imagine that would put that number closer to 2, which would make his statement on base.