Rumblings about Snell's Availability?

[Backtobanks]

There is some speculation that Ian Snell might be available for 3 major-league ready players. (from Bucco Blog)

 

Young, inexpensive, right-handed pitcher sounds good to me. The problem is that it looks like some of our prime trade bait is being mentioned as part of the Roberts deal. Forget the Roberts deal, how about this blockbuster:

 

San Diego gets: Jack Wilson, Jason Bay (Pirates) & Murton (Cubs)

Cubs get: Greene (San Diego) & Snell (Pirates)

Pirates get: Headley (San Diego), Marshall/Gallagher, Patterson, Cedeno, Veal (Cubs)

 

That's a real 10-player blockbuster! =D> =D> =D>

[anabiono]

done and done and done again

[Clem Fandango]

I want Ian Snell probably more than any other pitcher out there.

[Backtobanks]

done and done and done again

 

Give Hendry a call and tell him to get it done.

[CubColtPacer]

That's the most unfair deal I've ever seen. San Diego gets a decent amount of value, the Cubs get a lot of value, and the Pirates...well, the Pirates really don't get much at all.

 

The Pirates wouldn't do Bay for Headley, they wouldn't do Jack Wilson for Cedeno, and they wouldn't do Snell for Gallagher, Patterson, and Veal. So why when you put the 3 deals together would they suddenly do it?

[Backtobanks]

That's the most unfair deal I've ever seen. San Diego gets a decent amount of value, the Cubs get a lot of value, and the Pirates...well, the Pirates really don't get much at all.

 

The Pirates wouldn't do Bay for Headley, they wouldn't do Jack Wilson for Cedeno, and they wouldn't do Snell for Gallagher, Patterson, and Veal. So why when you put the 3 deals together would they suddenly do it?

 

The Pirates get out from under some contracts and end up with a young SS, 3B, CF, starter, and future starter. I don't think that is too bad for a team that isn't going anywhere and has a low budget. They will be loaded with players under their control contractually for quite a few years.

[CubColtPacer]

That's the most unfair deal I've ever seen. San Diego gets a decent amount of value, the Cubs get a lot of value, and the Pirates...well, the Pirates really don't get much at all.

 

The Pirates wouldn't do Bay for Headley, they wouldn't do Jack Wilson for Cedeno, and they wouldn't do Snell for Gallagher, Patterson, and Veal. So why when you put the 3 deals together would they suddenly do it?

 

The Pirates get out from under some contracts and end up with a young SS, 3B, CF, starter, and future starter. I don't think that is too bad for a team that isn't going anywhere and has a low budget. They will be loaded with players under their control contractually for quite a few years.

 

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh on my first post btw. I don't like to criticize proposals very often because it's hard to control tone of voice online and I don't want to sound like I'm upset but more just giving my opinion back.

 

If it was that deal or nothing, the Pirates might do it only because of the contracts involved. I think the Pirates could find much better deals though. Snell is going to command at least one star prospect and two more good prospects. Bay will likely land them either one star or two good prospects. Wilson will even land them a pretty good prospect because of the lack of SS around the league.

 

In that deal, you have 1 low star (Headley), 1 good to very good prospect (Gallagher), and 3 good talent prospects with significant question marks (Patterson, Cedeno, Veal). The Pirates will want more star power than that if they are going to give up a good portion of their major league talent. The PR alone from that deal would drive away fans.

[anabiono]

if snell really is being shopped...why don't we drop all of this roberts nonsense and just go for him...

 

?

 

can it be done?

[Mephistopheles]

ill pass on oquendo

[badnews]

I wouldn't waste time going after Snell. He's in our division, making him difficult to obtain probably, and I don't really see him as being a ton better than what we already have. It wouldn't surprise me to see Gallagher outpitching Snell in a year. His numbers up until this year have been interesting in K/9 department but bad elsewhere. Then this year he had a good first half and crapped out the second half. His delivery isn't smooth and he doesn't have a good build.

 

What I'm saying is he's a good pitcher I'd like to have but it doesn't make sense to me to throw a fortune at the Pirates to acquire him.

[Jake]

Couple of things here....

 

First, and foremost: Dave Littlefield works for you guys now. :-)

 

Snell is not available - see today's PG: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08003/846267-63.stm

 

Money is not an object - the contracts are not a burden anymore, there's no need to trade anyone to get out from a contract.

 

The intent of shopping Bay wasn't to save money - it was that he's a valuable player who can bring more players in return. As the offers weren't enough, he's still a Pirate.

 

Since Dave Littlefield left, no one has been discussing trading Jack Wilson.

[CuseCubFan69]

Couple of things here....

 

First, and foremost: Dave Littlefield works for you guys now. :-)

 

Snell is not available - see today's PG: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08003/846267-63.stm

 

Money is not an object - the contracts are not a burden anymore, there's no need to trade anyone to get out from a contract.

 

The intent of shopping Bay wasn't to save money - it was that he's a valuable player who can bring more players in return. As the offers weren't enough, he's still a Pirate.

 

Since Dave Littlefield left, no one has been discussing trading Jack Wilson.

 

If you guys still have Morris I'm sure the Cubs would take him off your hands as well! :pig:

[Springfield_CUBBY]

Couple of things here....

 

First, and foremost: Dave Littlefield works for you guys now. :-)

 

Snell is not available - see today's PG: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08003/846267-63.stm

 

Money is not an object - the contracts are not a burden anymore, there's no need to trade anyone to get out from a contract.

 

The intent of shopping Bay wasn't to save money - it was that he's a valuable player who can bring more players in return. As the offers weren't enough, he's still a Pirate.

 

Since Dave Littlefield left, no one has been discussing trading Jack Wilson.

 

BUBBLE BURSTER! :lol:

[Clem Fandango]

Since Dave Littlefield left, no one has been discussing trading Jack Wilson.

 

Sucks for you guys

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Since Dave Littlefield left, no one has been discussing trading Jack Wilson.

I thought your new GM was of the "progessive" nature :?:

[Ding Dong Johnson]

First, and foremost: Dave Littlefield works for you guys now. :-)

he did in 03 as well

[Backtobanks]

Couple of things here....

 

First, and foremost: Dave Littlefield works for you guys now. :-)

 

Snell is not available - see today's PG: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08003/846267-63.stm

 

Money is not an object - the contracts are not a burden anymore, there's no need to trade anyone to get out from a contract.

 

The intent of shopping Bay wasn't to save money - it was that he's a valuable player who can bring more players in return. As the offers weren't enough, he's still a Pirate.

 

Since Dave Littlefield left, no one has been discussing trading Jack Wilson.

 

From MLBtrade rumors.com:

 

Pirates could still trade SS Wilson?

Though Jack Wilson will be back to begin the 2008 season with the Pirates, don't mistake that for believing that we have heard the last of his name in the trade rumor mill. With shortstop prospect Brian Bixler getting closer to being Major League-ready and Wilson's price tag ready to increase again next season, Wilson is likely to be seen as expendable. I wouldn't be surprised to hear Wilson's name floating around as early as the July 31 trading deadline this year. Depending on the Pirates' position in the standings, Bixler's progress and the demand for a veteran shortstop, Wilson could be highly sought after and/or shopped. -- PittsburghPirates.com

[Sweet Swinging Billy]

Backtobanks wrote: "There is some speculation that Ian Snell might be available for 3 major-league ready players. (from Bucco Blog)

 

Young, inexpensive, right-handed pitcher sounds good to me. The problem is that it looks like some of our prime trade bait is being mentioned as part of the Roberts deal. Forget the Roberts deal, how about this blockbuster:

 

San Diego gets: Jack Wilson, Jason Bay (Pirates) & Murton (Cubs)

Cubs get: Greene (San Diego) & Snell (Pirates)

Pirates get: Headley (San Diego), Marshall/Gallagher, Patterson, Cedeno, Veal (Cubs)."

 

---- BTB, you call Jim Hendry and tell him to get it done. You can reach his office by calling: 1-(773) 404-2827. Just remain on line until an operator comes on, and then ask for Jim Hendry's Office. I've never spoken to him directly-- he's been out of the office when I call. So, I'll just leave a message. I have spoken however, to his secretary on several occasions and she seems to be very nice. If I remember correctly she did say that Jimbo prefers to speak to people directly. BTB, ask the secretary for the fax number and fax them your trade proposal.

[Jake]

Couple of things here....

 

First, and foremost: Dave Littlefield works for you guys now. :-)

 

Snell is not available - see today's PG: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08003/846267-63.stm

 

Money is not an object - the contracts are not a burden anymore, there's no need to trade anyone to get out from a contract.

 

The intent of shopping Bay wasn't to save money - it was that he's a valuable player who can bring more players in return. As the offers weren't enough, he's still a Pirate.

 

Since Dave Littlefield left, no one has been discussing trading Jack Wilson.

 

From MLBtrade rumors.com:

 

Pirates could still trade SS Wilson?

Though Jack Wilson will be back to begin the 2008 season with the Pirates, don't mistake that for believing that we have heard the last of his name in the trade rumor mill. With shortstop prospect Brian Bixler getting closer to being Major League-ready and Wilson's price tag ready to increase again next season, Wilson is likely to be seen as expendable. I wouldn't be surprised to hear Wilson's name floating around as early as the July 31 trading deadline this year. Depending on the Pirates' position in the standings, Bixler's progress and the demand for a veteran shortstop, Wilson could be highly sought after and/or shopped. -- PittsburghPirates.com

Bixler needs to take the next step - the step he didn't take last year. If he does, then, yes, we could see Wilson on the block.

[Post Count Padder]

I'll make that trade without a second thought.

[RammyFanny]

Couple of things here....

 

First, and foremost: Dave Littlefield works for you guys now. :-)

 

Snell is not available - see today's PG: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08003/846267-63.stm

 

Money is not an object - the contracts are not a burden anymore, there's no need to trade anyone to get out from a contract.

 

The intent of shopping Bay wasn't to save money - it was that he's a valuable player who can bring more players in return. As the offers weren't enough, he's still a Pirate.

Since Dave Littlefield left, no one has been discussing trading Jack Wilson.

Jake, if Snell is not available, why do you keep writing so much about the potential Seattle deal? If you guys are listening, he is available for the right package.

The Pirates and Mariners have been talking for quite some time it seems as we heard Pittsburgh Pirates GM Neal Huntington passed on a Jones-Morrow-Sherrill deal for Snell in December.

 

A few of my scouting buds are questioning whether a Pirates/M's deal can get done on several fronts. For instance:

 

-- does Brandon Morrow project long-term as a starter or a closer? Think Daniel Moskos. Some scouts are suggesting he might end up being a better fit closing. He can bring the heat but he had problems repeating his delivery late last year. Perhaps it was fatigue.. perhaps not. Also, he just can't get a feel for most of his secondary pitches yet.. command might be his downfall.

 

-- can any MLB team afford to keep Jeff Clement's poor defense behind the dish? Yes, he can rake, but where does his glove play? Some scouts think first base which means the Pirates would end up with a 20/HR .275 MLB average defender on the corner. Do the Pirates already have that potential with Ryan Doumit, Steve Pearce, or even Neil Walker?

 

-- you would think Adam Jones has to be in any package Huntington gets from the Mariners. He could be a league average or better shortstop which the Pirates need. With his speed and power potential, Pirate fans could drool thinking about OBP with Jones, McCutchen, and Walker sometime in 2009. But wait, few know this cat can throw 97 mph heaters off the mound too. Is pitching in his career down the road?

 

-- Carlos who? Carlos Triunfel. Several scouts have told me Huntington would be nuts to not include this soon to be 18 year old in any deal. The Mariners have already told other teams he's about as untouchable as anyone can be. Why all the rage? He's being compared to A-Rod.

 

He hit .304/.320/.413 over 50 at bats in low-A, broke his thumb, rehabbed, then was sent to the California League where he raked .288/.333/.356 in 208 at bats while striking out a measly 15%. That was at 17, mind you.. in High-A. My-oh-my.

 

But 38 errors in 95 games at short is a bit of a shock. He needs to be slowed down and not pushed but he certainly has some scouts thinking his upside is off the charts. The problem for the Pirates is, Triunfel is at least 4 years off.. perhaps more. Can they eat the fan PR hit taking such a youngster?

 

-- Wladimir Balentien put up some impressive first-half numbers at Tacoma then fell off the map toward the end of the year. He projects out as an average to plus defender on one of the outfield corners and certainly has plus power, but he might have a better chance of lending his name to a company that makes fans than staying on a club's 25-man roster over time. Think about a Brad Eldred whiff-machine with a better glove and better foot speed.

 

We know what we have in Ian Snell - he's a fastball/slider guy who is going to miss bats and keep us in the game over 80 pitches, despite having crud defenders behind him.

 

We also know Jason Bay will put the ball over the wall 25 times every year no matter if he hits .245 or .295. Bay is a complimentary piece with a poor arm, average to better than average foot speed for his size, and he does an ok job covering the ball in his zone. Out of his zone, forget it.

 

Snell is young, healthy, cheap, and a competitor. Bay has been declining the last 1.5 years (insert health excuses here?) but it stands to reason as he approaches his contract year he's going to focus a bit more and put it back together.

 

Now dealing Snell is easy to do. He rates two "plus" 0-3 prospects or three above average 0-3 prospects. Bay rates at least one "plus" prospect or two above average prospects if a team takes him at face value, which may not be possible right now.

 

If the Mariners went to the checkout line with Bay and Snell in their cart, Huntington would have to ask for three A- to A prospects, but the Mariners only have one - Jones. They will argue Clement or Morrow deserve to be rated A-, but I doubt Coonley would allow Huntington to place them there.

 

So if Jones is partial payment, that leaves the Mariners still owing three above average prospects (B to B+), and they have to be players that fit the Pirates needs.

 

If the Pirates pro scouts think Morrow can continue to develop and fine tune pitches other a splitter and fastball, plus repeat his delivery and gain better command, he would be one of the three, I'm guessing. He could immediately fill our need for a right-hand reliever in the pen while the Pirates start stretching him out later in the year.

 

That leaves two players to pull from their wallet and this is where it starts getting risky.

 

Can Russell and the Pirates add mileage to Clement behind the dish? If they work only on his footwork, that might get him a couple more years behind the plate. His bat makes Paulino's look like a joke, but don't forget our pitching is young and we've already seen what a poor receiver does to them in Doumit - they lose, and they lose often. So do we spin Clement off? Use him at 1B? Or not accept him as payment?

 

Carlos Triunfel looks like the real deal, smells like the real deal, and walks like the real deal, but is he the real deal? And what's his makeup like because there are some questions floating around about him. And can the Pirates even afford to take on a high-A player even if he is a potential impact guy?

 

That's why this deal hasn't gotten done.. there are too many question marks.. too many risks for the Pirates.

 

Look for the Mainers to continue their push for Snell but drop out of the Bay race. Jones, Morrow, and Clement or Triunfel, or even (maybe?) Jones, Morrow, and Tony Butler just might get this done from the Pirates perspective. From the Mariners perspective, they won't talk past Jones and Morrow plus some unwanted stuff.

 

And that's where we stand today. Like Littlefield last year with Gonzalez, Huntington has to stand his ground on Snell. He has at least three teams in on him so to deal him short to the Mariners just because they are barking loud right now doesn't make sense.

 

And Bay? I still think he has Cleveland written all over him, although the Padres might have something to say about that.

Edit: Maybe I wouldn't consider the offer I originally proposed on here. Snell's WHIP is nothing special and he does seem to give up alot of HR's.

[Jake]

Who's quote is that? This is the first time I'm hearing anything about Seattle. The Pittsburgh papers aren't saying anything. None of the blogs I read have mentioned it.

[RammyFanny]

Who's quote is that? This is the first time I'm hearing anything about Seattle. The Pittsburgh papers aren't saying anything. None of the blogs I read have mentioned it.

My bad, I was assuming you were "Jake" at Buccoblog.

 

http://buccoblog.mlblogs.com/

[Jake]

Funny. I've read that blog maybe a dozen times over the past couple of years. Never realized the guys name was Jake.

 

He never caught my interest for some reason.