Hall Of Fame?

[Backtobanks]

Since the Mitchell Report is obviously just the tip of the iceberg, how can writers vote anybody into the Hall of Fame? Many writers are saying they will not vote for Bonds and Clemens, yet how can they justify voting for anybody when they don't know the extent of the steroid and HGH use during this era. Do we know for sure that Greg Maddux, ARod, Tony Gwynn, or Cal Ripken didn't use performance enhancing drugs? If Selig takes Mitchell's recommendation about not punishing past behavior, how can they deny Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, etc. entry into the Hall of Fame?

[CubinNY]

Since the Mitchell Report is obviously just the tip of the iceberg, how can writers vote anybody into the Hall of Fame? Many writers are saying they will not vote for Bonds and Clemens, yet how can they justify voting for anybody when they don't know the extent of the steroid and HGH use during this era. Do we know for sure that Greg Maddux, ARod, Tony Gwynn, or Cal Ripken didn't use performance enhancing drugs? If Selig takes Mitchell's recommendation about not punishing past behavior, how can they deny Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, etc. entry into the Hall of Fame?

What's the point of not punishing past behavior and still naming names?

[javy knows my name]

Since the Mitchell Report is obviously just the tip of the iceberg, how can writers vote anybody into the Hall of Fame? Many writers are saying they will not vote for Bonds and Clemens, yet how can they justify voting for anybody when they don't know the extent of the steroid and HGH use during this era. Do we know for sure that Greg Maddux, ARod, Tony Gwynn, or Cal Ripken didn't use performance enhancing drugs? If Selig takes Mitchell's recommendation about not punishing past behavior, how can they deny Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, etc. entry into the Hall of Fame?

I don't think they can. Unless they are currently taking HGH as a recreational drug right now, I don't see any way to keep these guys out. I think they will all get in after this whole thing calms just down; just not right away.

[ottawacubbie]

Also,

 

I believe there was no rule saying they couldn't take performance enhancing drugs. There is a MLB rule about betting on baseball, that is why Rose isn't in the HoF. He broke the rules. If there was no rule, how is this different from other law breakers such as drunk drivers, loiterers etc.

 

Maybe I am wrong though. Does anyone know if MLB had a rule or policy on drugs prior to 1997?

[Sammy Sofa]

Nobody should be kept out by anything that the league wasn't saying no to at the time it was done. Hell, the Black Sox should be in.

[Coach C]

Also,

 

I believe there was no rule saying they couldn't take performance enhancing drugs. There is a MLB rule about betting on baseball, that is why Rose isn't in the HoF. He broke the rules. If there was no rule, how is this different from other law breakers such as drunk drivers, loiterers etc.

 

Maybe I am wrong though. Does anyone know if MLB had a rule or policy on drugs prior to 1997?

 

I wouldn't know, but isn't anabolic steroids illegal in this country?

[Backtobanks]

Also,

 

I believe there was no rule saying they couldn't take performance enhancing drugs. There is a MLB rule about betting on baseball, that is why Rose isn't in the HoF. He broke the rules. If there was no rule, how is this different from other law breakers such as drunk drivers, loiterers etc.

 

Maybe I am wrong though. Does anyone know if MLB had a rule or policy on drugs prior to 1997?

 

I wouldn't know, but isn't anabolic steroids illegal in this country?

 

So are pot, cocaine, etc.

[Derwood]

Also,

 

I believe there was no rule saying they couldn't take performance enhancing drugs. There is a MLB rule about betting on baseball, that is why Rose isn't in the HoF. He broke the rules. If there was no rule, how is this different from other law breakers such as drunk drivers, loiterers etc.

 

Maybe I am wrong though. Does anyone know if MLB had a rule or policy on drugs prior to 1997?

 

I wouldn't know, but isn't anabolic steroids illegal in this country?

 

so is assault and battery, but Cobb is in the Hall

[gerby23]

Also,

 

I believe there was no rule saying they couldn't take performance enhancing drugs. There is a MLB rule about betting on baseball, that is why Rose isn't in the HoF. He broke the rules. If there was no rule, how is this different from other law breakers such as drunk drivers, loiterers etc.

 

Maybe I am wrong though. Does anyone know if MLB had a rule or policy on drugs prior to 1997?

 

I wouldn't know, but isn't anabolic steroids illegal in this country?

 

Yes there were rules, they were banned substances even then, but not tested for. Go figure.

[Coach C]

Also,

 

I believe there was no rule saying they couldn't take performance enhancing drugs. There is a MLB rule about betting on baseball, that is why Rose isn't in the HoF. He broke the rules. If there was no rule, how is this different from other law breakers such as drunk drivers, loiterers etc.

 

Maybe I am wrong though. Does anyone know if MLB had a rule or policy on drugs prior to 1997?

 

I wouldn't know, but isn't anabolic steroids illegal in this country?

 

so is assault and battery, but Cobb is in the Hall

 

Yeah, I can't argue that, but was there any evidence that Cobb took steroids or anything like that?

[Coach C]

Also,

 

I believe there was no rule saying they couldn't take performance enhancing drugs. There is a MLB rule about betting on baseball, that is why Rose isn't in the HoF. He broke the rules. If there was no rule, how is this different from other law breakers such as drunk drivers, loiterers etc.

 

Maybe I am wrong though. Does anyone know if MLB had a rule or policy on drugs prior to 1997?

 

I wouldn't know, but isn't anabolic steroids illegal in this country?

 

Yes there were rules, they were banned substances even then, but not tested for. Go figure.

 

So, what happens now? I mean, in the eyes of the law, the possession of such substances without a prescription a federal crime punishable by up to seven years in prison. Even though, to my knowledge, there wasn't any evidence of anybody being tested for it, but there are collaboration stories, thus far.

 

I'm just throwing out scenerios, that's all.

[gerby23]

Also,

 

I believe there was no rule saying they couldn't take performance enhancing drugs. There is a MLB rule about betting on baseball, that is why Rose isn't in the HoF. He broke the rules. If there was no rule, how is this different from other law breakers such as drunk drivers, loiterers etc.

 

Maybe I am wrong though. Does anyone know if MLB had a rule or policy on drugs prior to 1997?

 

I wouldn't know, but isn't anabolic steroids illegal in this country?

 

Yes there were rules, they were banned substances even then, but not tested for. Go figure.

 

So, what happens now? I mean, in the eyes of the law, the possession of such substances without a prescription a federal crime punishable by up to seven years in prison. Even though, to my knowledge, there wasn't any evidence of anybody being tested for it, but there are collaboration stories, thus far.

 

I'm just throwing out scenerios, that's all.

 

I understand. I have no idea what the ramifications will be. That is what many people feared would be the case after this report. Its like, here are all these "likely" offenses from past years, now what? If anything, it will end up a Federal case, b/c i just don't see what baseball can do.

As much as I and countless others don't like it, these records will have to stand, or everything that has happened in baseball over the last 15-20 years must be wiped clean--everything. There is just no good way to determine based on heresay and checks, etc. who is guilty.

Baseball dug this hole, and there is no light at the top, but at least we have finally turned around and looked up instead of digging deeper down. Now we have to figure how to climb.

--IMO--

[seanimal]

I don't know if they will or won't make it, but Bonds most certainly belongs in the Hall. He'll get the Big Mac treatment on the first ballot, but from there on out, anyone who doesn't vote him in is a gigantic moran. It's somewhat debatable whether or not McGwire should be in or not (in the sense that people debate it), but I think he and especially Sosa are definite HoF'ers.

[OleMissCub]

Yeah, I can't argue that, but was there any evidence that Cobb took steroids or anything like that?

 

He was one of the first players to actually "work out", so to speak. He used to go running with weights in his shoes during the offseason.

 

As far as the topic at hand goes, I think the Mitchell Report helps Sosa's chances of being in the hall.

[TruffleShuffle]

Yeah, I can't argue that, but was there any evidence that Cobb took steroids or anything like that?

 

He was one of the first players to actually "work out", so to speak. He used to go running with weights in his shoes during the offseason.

 

he also beat up black people for cardio work

[Little Slide Rooter]

I doubt that sure shots like Bonds or Clemens will be denied the Hall of Fame over this, or even on the 1st ballot, however I think that it will have a huge effect on the status of guys like Rapheal Palmeiro and Juan Gonzales who are on the borderline.

[evv98]

All-timers like Bonds and Clemens will be boycotted the first year, or the first few years, but they will eventually be let in. Others, like Sosa, may never be voted in because of the perception of cheating.

 

Personally, I think there was a vast number of players using PEDs, so they canceled each other out, more-or-less. I would let the best players of the era into the HOF, but the rest should be passed over.

[Wheelimus]

I think people are a bit off if they're expecting Bonds to get in. Not only will he have the Mitchell Report hanging over his head but he's also likely to have a felony conviction for perjury and obstruction of justice.

 

He'll certainly, someday, be in the Hall of Fame. But I could see people being spiteful enough that the writers never put him there.

 

At this point I don't think McGwire ever gets in, I think Bonds is a longshot, and deserved or not Sammy Sosa is looking pretty damn good right now.

[OleMissCub]

Yeah, I can't argue that, but was there any evidence that Cobb took steroids or anything like that?

 

He was one of the first players to actually "work out", so to speak. He used to go running with weights in his shoes during the offseason.

 

he also beat up black people for cardio work

 

correction: he beat up ALL people for cardio work.

[BigbadB]

I doubt that sure shots like Bonds or Clemens will be denied the Hall of Fame over this, or even on the 1st ballot, however I think that it will have a huge effect on the status of guys like Rapheal Palmeiro and Juan Gonzales who are on the borderline.

 

If Bonds and Clemens run around denying it like they already are, then I don't see it as a big surprise if the voters shun them from the HOF.

[RazzinGTO]

Although I think doping shouldn't be allowed.....the league knew about it, did nothing about it, and now is trying to put shame on the players. They didn't test for it so they were allowing it. No matter if it was illegal or not, the league never did anything.

 

They were all two worried about the almighty dollar that they let the league image take it in the shorts.

 

Not voting a player into the hall of fame for doing something the league allowed is wrong. Just like the "asterisk" comments.

 

Again, I can't look at players that have been named, or in other situations been found guilty, the same way. But they shouldn't be punished by a league that did nothing to prevent it. In fact I think the league's in action is the #1 reason we are where we are.

 

Vote em in if they are worthy.

 

Oh and for those sports writers that simply will not vote a first ballot nominee in.......you need your vote revoked!

JR

[Yanksfan1523]

Also,

 

I believe there was no rule saying they couldn't take performance enhancing drugs. There is a MLB rule about betting on baseball, that is why Rose isn't in the HoF. He broke the rules. If there was no rule, how is this different from other law breakers such as drunk drivers, loiterers etc.

 

Maybe I am wrong though. Does anyone know if MLB had a rule or policy on drugs prior to 1997?

 

I wouldn't know, but isn't anabolic steroids illegal in this country?

 

so is assault and battery, but Cobb is in the Hall

 

Yeah, I can't argue that, but was there any evidence that Cobb took steroids or anything like that?

 

Cobb= definate 'Roid Rage!

[mul21]

All-timers like Bonds and Clemens will be boycotted the first year, or the first few years, but they will eventually be let in. Others, like Sosa, may never be voted in because of the perception of cheating.

 

Personally, I think there was a vast number of players using PEDs, so they canceled each other out, more-or-less. I would let the best players of the era into the HOF, but the rest should be passed over.

 

This is the theory that I don't get. Pitchers were throwing harder, hitters were able to swing faster/harder. PED's don't help a curve ball curve or a slider slide, they allow you to throw with max effort more regularly. They don't help you square up the ball, they allow you to keep up your stamina to be able to have your best possible swing speed for the entire season. If you can hit the ball under these conditions, common sense says the ball will go farther due to increase pitch speed and increased swing speed. I think more HR's were hit and more offense resulted regardless of what anyone may say about pitchers using.

[Abe Frohman]

I think it is all crap.

 

The writers are going to let whoever they want in there. Pete Rose isn't in the HOF, why should Bonds be? Or McGwire?

 

If Kirby Puckett is in the HOF, why not Albert Belle? See where I am going with this.

 

Jose Canseco was one of the best sluggers in the game for a time. He was blackballed from baseball because of steroids. He was one season away from 500 HR, and even offered to play for free. MLB is a funny business, as is the HOF.

 

I think it has lost it's luster. The HOF and MLB need a makeover.

[OleMissCub]

If Kirby Puckett is in the HOF, why not Albert Belle? See where I am going with this.

 

I definitely agree with you there. Puckett doesn't have THE numbers for the HOF, but the writers gave him the benefit of the doubt because of his career ending prematurely. The same isn't given to Belle. The media absolutely HATED that guy (not saying I blame them), but he was just a beast. I think people have almost forgotten about him. He only played 10 full seasons and his average line was .295/.369/.564, 143 OPS+, 40hr, 130 rbi.