Hall Of Fame?

[seanimal]

If Kirby Puckett is in the HOF, why not Albert Belle? See where I am going with this.

 

I definitely agree with you there. Puckett doesn't have THE numbers for the HOF, but the writers gave him the benefit of the doubt because of his career ending prematurely. The same isn't given to Belle. The media absolutely HATED that guy (not saying I blame them), but he was just a beast. I think people have almost forgotten about him. He only played 10 full seasons and his average line was .295/.369/.564, 143 OPS+, 40hr, 130 rbi.

 

I will never forget Albert Belle. He was one of my favorite players in the mid-90's, in part because of his surly attitude.

[fibro]

Do you think this guy gets in

http://images17.fotki.com/v9/photos/4/41654/190291/mcgriff-th.jpg

 

.284 .377 .509 134 and 493 career home runs I think ten years ago those numbers would have got him in now I don't think they will. If McGriff was clean all those years then he might lose out on the HOF. If I were a player who played through this era and was clean I be pissed. Thats why I do not like the everyone was doing it so vote on the best players no matter what because everyone was doing Peds and the guys( even if they were the minority) who were clean get the shaft.

[OleMissCub]

Do you think this guy gets in

http://images17.fotki.com/v9/photos/4/41654/190291/mcgriff-th.jpg

 

.284 .377 .509 134 and 493 career home runs I think ten years ago those numbers would have got him in now I don't think they will. If McGriff was clean all those years then he might lose out on the HOF. If I were a player who played through this era and was clean I be pissed. Thats why I do not like the everyone was doing it so vote on the best players no matter what because everyone was doing Peds and the guys( even if they were the minority) who were clean get the shaft.

 

Pops had about the same numbers as McGriff had and he's in:

 

.282/.360/.529, 147ops+, 475HR, 1540 rbi

 

Fred McGriff, if he never gets in, will probably have the best case for a clean player (assuming he is) getting shafted because of the steroid era.

[Keener98]

Ok maybe Im way off on this, but in my opinion if the Hall is going to allow known steroid users into the Hall, then let Pete Rose in. Pete supposedly didnt "cheat" while playing only as a manager, unlike the steroid group. Ive been in the belief Rose belongs in before all this, but this to me, just backs my opinion.

[cbbryan]

My two cents:

 

Bonds - Obviously the poster boy for most of the media for steriod abuse. You have BALCO, Game of Shadows, and Federal Charges up against him. I don't buy the argument that "He was a HOF before the steriod suspicions" crap. The fact of the matter is, Pete Rose, was a HOF before he bet on baseball too and he's banned for life.

 

Bonds is/was a great player and it's a shame that he thought he needed to use PED, but there seems to be more information available about his abuse of PEDs then anyone else.

 

For that reason, I think he will have a hard time getting into the HOF.

 

Clemens - If it's true that his PED use started when he went to Toronto and you were to discount wins after that time, he would lose approx. 150 wins. That would put him well below the HOF automatic of 300.

 

He's arguably the greatest pitcher of this generation and it's a shame he turned to PEDs. I find it hard to believe that he put up better numbers his last 10 years than he put up in his first 10 years in the league.

 

If no additional information comes out about Clemens that further implicates him I could see him getting in to the HOF after a few years of eligibility, but not in the first couple years.

 

McGwire - He's the first player for this "steriod" era to be available for induction. He clearly has the HR numbers to get into the HOF, but he has the shadow of doubt of PEDs as well.

 

I think he will eventually get into the HOF as well. Fair or not, I think the focus will be on Bonds because he holds the hallowed records in MLB.

 

Sosa - As much as I loved the Sosa years in Chicago, I realize that the likelyhood he used PEDs is great. The funny thing is that he seems to be the one player no one can find any dirt on. He seemingly escapes each investigation, probe, or raid. His names not in any books, online order lists, or BALCO customer logs.

 

So to make a long story short, he gets in on the first ballot.

 

One interesting note: Frank Thomas was the only player (out of 5 requested players) that had spoken publically about PEDs that agreed to talk to Senator Mitchell. I think it says something for the guy that he's been very public about his distain for the use of PEDs in MLB and his denials of ever using PEDs himself. The fact that he came forward and provided information to try to help shed light on the situation in MLB speaks volumes about him, IMO.

 

I believe that he was one of the few "clean" players in MLB, he has his 500 HR, and he'll be voted in on his first year of eligibility.

[snoodmonger]

I doubt Sosa is a first ballot. A lot of writers hate him, and most people think he did PEDs anyway, his absence from all the lists notwithstanding.

[cbbryan]

I doubt Sosa is a first ballot. A lot of writers hate him, and most people think he did PEDs anyway, his absence from all the lists notwithstanding.

 

 

I think he'll be a first ballot IF he's not named in any investigations. If his name comes up, he's toast and he'll be treated like everyone else.

[Abe Frohman]

Ok maybe Im way off on this, but in my opinion if the Hall is going to allow known steroid users into the Hall, then let Pete Rose in. Pete supposedly didnt "cheat" while playing only as a manager, unlike the steroid group. Ive been in the belief Rose belongs in before all this, but this to me, just backs my opinion.

 

Way, way to much sense in that statement. I am TOTALLY with you there. There are lots of schmucks in the HOF, and to me - Rose has more than paid his petty dues.

 

Also, you have to ask yourself - if Sammy Sosa is a HOF player, why can't he get a job with the numbers he had last year. Why couldn't Jose Canseco play for free?

 

This game is corrupt. Plain and simple.

[Guest]

Bonds was a surefire HOFer had he not used steroids. He would have reached 500 home runs and 500 SB's and would have been the only one to reach those marks.

 

Clemens was at 192 wins before the 1997 season and was 34 entering the season. Realistically, he would have ended up with roughly 250 wins (11-12 wins per year for the next 5 years was not out of the question). He also already had 3 Cy Young awards. The other players with 3+ Cy Young awards are Randy Johnson, Steve Carlton, Greg Maddux, Sandy Koufax, Pedro Martinez, Jim Palmer and Tom Seaver. Carlton, Koufax, Palmer and Seaver were all first balloters. Maddux will be and Johnson and Martinez should be. Clemens likely would have been a HOFer anyway. He probably wouldn't have been regarded as the best pitcher of our generation and one of the best of all time, but he would have made the HOF anyway.