Levine: Prior, Hudson, Swisher

[CUBZ99]

This whole "Cubs treated Prior like garbage" thing is blown totally out of proportion. The Cubs did about everything they could and Hendry did not treat him any worse than anyone else. The handling by some of the staff could be considered detrimental emotionally and physically but this didn't come from the front office.

 

All of this is incorrect. All of it. Hendry even came out once in 2004 or 2005 and ripped Prior for coming out of a game when "nothing was wrong with him". They waited until 2007 (!) to have his shoulder properly examined and operated on.

 

No, sorry, you're imagining a sentiment that didn't exist. I'm aware you wouldn't be convinced otherwise, especially since Prior is headed out, and I'm not sure what the point would be in debating arbitrary perceptions of a third-party's feelings - however, in all my dealings and with people I've talked to, I've never thought "the front office is sure treating Prior like garbage!" This is just the way some fans interpret the business.

 

In all your dealings? Please share your dealings with the front office of the Cubs in relation Prior. All you have to do is dig up a Paul Sullivan article crica. 2005-2006 regarding Prior. Where would Sullivan and half the radio morons get the "Prior is soft" stuff from if not from Hendry and crew, saying "we can't find anything 'physically' wrong with Mark"?

 

According to Dusty, we still don't know if there was anything physically wrong with Prior.

[Banedon]

"This is just something [Prior's] going to experience from time to time -- tendinitis, bursitis, whatever you want to call it. There's a lot of people in the Hall of Fame who went out 33 times a year and didn't feel the greatest every time out."

[KingCubsFan]

This whole "Cubs treated Prior like garbage" thing is blown totally out of proportion. The Cubs did about everything they could and Hendry did not treat him any worse than anyone else. The handling by some of the staff could be considered detrimental emotionally and physically but this didn't come from the front office.

 

All of this is incorrect. All of it. Hendry even came out once in 2004 or 2005 and ripped Prior for coming out of a game when "nothing was wrong with him". They waited until 2007 (!) to have his shoulder properly examined and operated on.

 

No, sorry, you're imagining a sentiment that didn't exist. I'm aware you wouldn't be convinced otherwise, especially since Prior is headed out, and I'm not sure what the point would be in debating arbitrary perceptions of a third-party's feelings - however, in all my dealings and with people I've talked to, I've never thought "the front office is sure treating Prior like garbage!" This is just the way some fans interpret the business.

 

In all your dealings? Please share your dealings with the front office of the Cubs in relation Prior. All you have to do is dig up a Paul Sullivan article crica. 2005-2006 regarding Prior. Where would Sullivan and half the radio morons get the "Prior is soft" stuff from if not from Hendry and crew, saying "we can't find anything 'physically' wrong with Mark"?

Oh please. Sullivan is bias just like any other sportswriter. He talks bad about someone who doesn't feel like talking to him after a game or doesn't jump at the chance at an interview. It's the same thing with Aramis. And look at how Sam Smith treats Tyrus Thomas because Thomas doesn't like talking to the media. What's Hendry supposed to say when the doctors don't find anything wrong with Prior? Any perception of a player painted by a beat writer is nothing more than a manifestation of the information given to him shaped by his own personal feelings towards the player. Claiming Sullivan just spits out what Hendry tells him, and adopting Hendry's own biases, is ridiculous.

If the Cubs had a history of treating players badly and forcing them to play through injury, I could see how it could be assumed that Prior was treated badly. But treating players well and looking after injuries is about the one thing this management team seems to be good at, with the exception of Prior. So I find it hard to believe this was strictly the Cub's fault.

[KingCubsFan]

"This is just something [Prior's] going to experience from time to time -- tendinitis, bursitis, whatever you want to call it. There's a lot of people in the Hall of Fame who went out 33 times a year and didn't feel the greatest every time out."

You call that throwing him under the bus?

[wilk]

In all your dealings? Please share your dealings with the front office of the Cubs in relation Prior. All you have to do is dig up a Paul Sullivan article crica. 2005-2006 regarding Prior. Where would Sullivan and half the radio morons get the "Prior is soft" stuff from if not from Hendry and crew, saying "we can't find anything 'physically' wrong with Mark"?

 

Ah, your presumptions from a Paul Sullivan article. That really trumps my point of a fan's perception and "evidence" thrown out of proportion. Find this conversation and show me how the front office is treating Prior worse than anyone else. What tells you he says this insincerely? Do you have more than one comment, which may be ignorant or mistaken, on their understanding of his physical health? Again, I don't see how this discussion can go anywhere and I'm not trying to change anyone's (made up) mind but I'm absolutely confident the front office didn't "treat him like garbage." You seem to be mushing an entire organization of people, as well as some media bias, into front office behavior and placing all the credibility of the opinion into a Paul Sullivan article and that's just not very sensible.

[MADD_DOG_31]

This whole "Cubs treated Prior like garbage" thing is blown totally out of proportion. The Cubs did about everything they could and Hendry did not treat him any worse than anyone else. The handling by some of the staff could be considered detrimental emotionally and physically but this didn't come from the front office.

 

I totally agree. I have been a Prior fan for years but I don't see this guy coming back strong anytime soon. When he was good it was hard fastballs and precision control because his fastball was always very straight. He did have an okay curve but it was throwing hard that made that pitch effective.

 

If he would come back this summer, what are the chances of him regaining his 93-94 mph that he needs to be effective, and is their any chance he could regain his control since he hasn't pitched for almost 3 years?

 

If you can't sign this guy for 2 years, do not waist your time and money.

 

 

1st post btw

[YearofDaCubs]

I don't even bother reading Sullivan anymore. Overly negative, and he writes his thoughts in a way to make it seem like these events are really happening. I wouldn't be surprised if no one in the Cubs organization likes him. He's terrible.

[CuseCubFan69]

I can't begin to imaginge the outrage if Prior went to his own doctors, got a diagnosis and told the team he was taking the year off to get his shoulder cleaned up. Pitchforks for everyone!

 

So the Cubs wanted surgery...then get upset when Prior wants it too? Again, it doesn't add up.

 

The Cubs wanted him to tought it out and pitch.

 

 

I'm done with this topic. I don't have the energy to discuss the painfully illogical notion a parting of the ways is somehow best for everybody involved. It's a shame, but it's hardly a fluke that something like this would have to the Cubs organization, and the people who run it.

 

What I'd like is to get him to sign a 1 year deal and then trade him. I agree that just letting him leave and getting nothing out of it stinks. I'm sure his people have been in contact with the Padres as well so imo this would stop them from making a deal unless the Cubs have another team interested.

[jersey cubs fan]

But treating players well and looking after injuries is about the one thing this management team seems to be good at,

 

That is......., I don't know. Laughable I guess.

 

Did you forget trainer-gate? All the issues with timetables for returns and whatnot? The Cubs are awful with health.

[CuseCubFan69]

This whole "Cubs treated Prior like garbage" thing is blown totally out of proportion. The Cubs did about everything they could and Hendry did not treat him any worse than anyone else. The handling by some of the staff could be considered detrimental emotionally and physically but this didn't come from the front office.

 

I totally agree. I have been a Prior fan for years but I don't see this guy coming back strong anytime soon. When he was good it was hard fastballs and precision control because his fastball was always very straight. He did have an okay curve but it was throwing hard that made that pitch effective.

 

If he would come back this summer, what are the chances of him regaining his 93-94 mph that he needs to be effective, and is their any chance he could regain his control since he hasn't pitched for almost 3 years?

 

If you can't sign this guy for 2 years, do not waist your time and money.

 

 

1st post btw

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

I'd like to do a sign and trade if possible.

[KingCubsFan]

But treating players well and looking after injuries is about the one thing this management team seems to be good at,

 

That is......., I don't know. Laughable I guess.

 

Did you forget trainer-gate? All the issues with timetables for returns and whatnot? The Cubs are awful with health.

Those all involved Prior though. The trainer's decision to leave him out there after Giles was horrible, and he was rightfully fired after that. I can't think of another player where the Cubs mishandled his injury though.

[jersey cubs fan]

But treating players well and looking after injuries is about the one thing this management team seems to be good at,

 

That is......., I don't know. Laughable I guess.

 

Did you forget trainer-gate? All the issues with timetables for returns and whatnot? The Cubs are awful with health.

Those all involved Prior though. The trainer's decision to leave him out there after Giles was horrible, and he was rightfully fired after that. I can't think of another player where the Cubs mishandled his injury though.

 

Wood pitching in relief when he had surgery scheduled anyway and the season was over? Wood, Prior and many others pitching 130+ repeatedly and having management thing nothing was wrong with that. Prior and Wood were not the only guys who saw 2-4 weeks turn into 4-6 months. And just because all those things happened to Prior, it doesn't mean they don't count. The Cubs are boobs with health. Hey Lieber, pitch through a 2 hour rain delay would ya, and then do it as many times as possible until you need TJS. Clement, same thing.

 

Scott Eyre, why the Cubs? The Cubs don't make you excercise.

 

This team has been roundly criticized for their ignorance of modern baseball analysis, but they've also maintained an old school, "just tough it out pansy" attitude with pitching injuries, and a rub some dirt on it philosophy with injuries in general.

[Banedon]

"This is just something [Prior's] going to experience from time to time -- tendinitis, bursitis, whatever you want to call it. There's a lot of people in the Hall of Fame who went out 33 times a year and didn't feel the greatest every time out."

You call that throwing him under the bus?

 

Actually I posted it without comment. I didn't call it anything.

 

But I think it shows that Hendry, at least to some extent, wasn't happy with Prior's injuries, and at least on some level, believed his toughness was an issue.

[TBone]

Sorry, but there is no way the Cubs should sign Prior for a year. For one, I don't think they'll be able to get much for him in return for a sign and trade. Two, I don't think Prior will pitch well enough, if at all, prior to the trading deadline next year to get anything for him. Plus, you're assuming a lot of risk in that scenario of throwing 3 mil or whatever out the window. The best option, and it pains me to say this, is to non-tender, and both parties moved on.

 

T

[ottawacubbie]

What time is the deadline for tendering him a contact? Midnight? Just curious.

[YearofDaCubs]

What time is the deadline for tendering him a contact? Midnight? Just curious.

11 pm local time Chicago.

[Banedon]

Sorry, but there is no way the Cubs should sign Prior for a year. For one, I don't think they'll be able to get much for him in return for a sign and trade. Two, I don't think Prior will pitch well enough, if at all, prior to the trading deadline next year to get anything for him. Plus, you're assuming a lot of risk in that scenario of throwing 3 mil or whatever out the window. The best option, and it pains me to say this, is to non-tender, and both parties moved on.

 

T

 

The Cubs spent 2.5/yr on Neifi Perez. The Cubs spent $6 million over 2 years on Glendon Rusch. $3 million isn't much to roll the dice and see what you can get out of someone with the potential of Mark Prior.

[CuseCubFan69]

Sorry, but there is no way the Cubs should sign Prior for a year. For one, I don't think they'll be able to get much for him in return for a sign and trade. Two, I don't think Prior will pitch well enough, if at all, prior to the trading deadline next year to get anything for him. Plus, you're assuming a lot of risk in that scenario of throwing 3 mil or whatever out the window. The best option, and it pains me to say this, is to non-tender, and both parties moved on.

 

T

 

The Cubs spent 2.5/yr on Neifi Perez. The Cubs spent $6 million over 2 years on Glendon Rusch. $3 million isn't much to roll the dice and see what you can get out of someone with the potential of Mark Prior.

 

But he's not staying. Also, wouldn't it be a smart move to not repeat past mistakes? Just because they've made some foolish moves in the past doesn't mean they should continue making them.

[jersey cubs fan]

Sorry, but there is no way the Cubs should sign Prior for a year. For one, I don't think they'll be able to get much for him in return for a sign and trade. Two, I don't think Prior will pitch well enough, if at all, prior to the trading deadline next year to get anything for him. Plus, you're assuming a lot of risk in that scenario of throwing 3 mil or whatever out the window. The best option, and it pains me to say this, is to non-tender, and both parties moved on.

 

T

 

The Cubs spent 2.5/yr on Neifi Perez. The Cubs spent $6 million over 2 years on Glendon Rusch. $3 million isn't much to roll the dice and see what you can get out of someone with the potential of Mark Prior.

 

But he's not staying. Also, wouldn't it be a smart move to not repeat past mistakes? Just because they've made some foolish moves in the past doesn't mean they should continue making them.

 

That's only a good point if you are under the mistaken assumption that keeping Prior would be a mistake. You gamble on potential greatness, or even goodness. Those foolish moves were wasting money on guaranteed crap.

[CuseCubFan69]

Sorry, but there is no way the Cubs should sign Prior for a year. For one, I don't think they'll be able to get much for him in return for a sign and trade. Two, I don't think Prior will pitch well enough, if at all, prior to the trading deadline next year to get anything for him. Plus, you're assuming a lot of risk in that scenario of throwing 3 mil or whatever out the window. The best option, and it pains me to say this, is to non-tender, and both parties moved on.

 

T

 

The Cubs spent 2.5/yr on Neifi Perez. The Cubs spent $6 million over 2 years on Glendon Rusch. $3 million isn't much to roll the dice and see what you can get out of someone with the potential of Mark Prior.

 

But he's not staying. Also, wouldn't it be a smart move to not repeat past mistakes? Just because they've made some foolish moves in the past doesn't mean they should continue making them.

 

That's only a good point if you are under the mistaken assumption that keeping Prior would be a mistake. You gamble on potential greatness, or even goodness. Those foolish moves were wasting money on guaranteed crap.

 

Gamble on what? The Cubs pay for rehab the whole year and then he leaves....what on earth are the Cubs getting out of this great potential?

[Banedon]

Sorry, but there is no way the Cubs should sign Prior for a year. For one, I don't think they'll be able to get much for him in return for a sign and trade. Two, I don't think Prior will pitch well enough, if at all, prior to the trading deadline next year to get anything for him. Plus, you're assuming a lot of risk in that scenario of throwing 3 mil or whatever out the window. The best option, and it pains me to say this, is to non-tender, and both parties moved on.

 

T

 

The Cubs spent 2.5/yr on Neifi Perez. The Cubs spent $6 million over 2 years on Glendon Rusch. $3 million isn't much to roll the dice and see what you can get out of someone with the potential of Mark Prior.

 

But he's not staying. Also, wouldn't it be a smart move to not repeat past mistakes? Just because they've made some foolish moves in the past doesn't mean they should continue making them.

 

Prior is a gamble, and you don't know that he wouldn't stay. Maybe he doesn't. Maybe he does. But after all the time and money that the Cubs have invested, why not find out? What's lost other than $3 million? Which lets be honest, in a $125 million payroll isn't exactly breaking the bank. Perez and Rusch and the like were bad moves. We all knew it from the get go. But Prior has the potential to come back and be the pitcher we've seen before. Maybe he won't do it. But the cost is so small, why not find out? Instead we're gambling that he won't...and what do we win if we're right? $3 million in payroll. Woooo.

 

Signing him for a year is a smaller potential cost ($3 million vs him being great on another team), and bigger potential benefit ($3 million in savings vs him being great for us).

[USSoccer]

Sorry, but there is no way the Cubs should sign Prior for a year. For one, I don't think they'll be able to get much for him in return for a sign and trade. Two, I don't think Prior will pitch well enough, if at all, prior to the trading deadline next year to get anything for him. Plus, you're assuming a lot of risk in that scenario of throwing 3 mil or whatever out the window. The best option, and it pains me to say this, is to non-tender, and both parties moved on.

 

T

 

The Cubs spent 2.5/yr on Neifi Perez. The Cubs spent $6 million over 2 years on Glendon Rusch. $3 million isn't much to roll the dice and see what you can get out of someone with the potential of Mark Prior.

 

But he's not staying. Also, wouldn't it be a smart move to not repeat past mistakes? Just because they've made some foolish moves in the past doesn't mean they should continue making them.

 

That's only a good point if you are under the mistaken assumption that keeping Prior would be a mistake. You gamble on potential greatness, or even goodness. Those foolish moves were wasting money on guaranteed crap.

 

Gamble on what? The Cubs pay for rehab the whole year and then he leaves....what on earth are the Cubs getting out of this great potential?

 

Assuming he could come back in June, he would be able to potentially give them 10-15 starts. It also buys you time to mend fences.

[Banedon]

Gamble on what? The Cubs pay for rehab the whole year and then he leaves....what on earth are the Cubs getting out of this great potential?

 

That's an assumption.

[The Voice of Reason]

http://

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/padres/20071212-9999-1s12padres.html

 

After gathering medical information on Cubs pitcher Mark Prior, who is coming off shoulder surgery, the Padres have cooled somewhat on the former USDHS star, who would become a free agent today if the Cubs do not tender him a contract.

[SouthSideRyan]

Gamble on what? The Cubs pay for rehab the whole year and then he leaves....what on earth are the Cubs getting out of this great potential?

 

That's an assumption.

 

An outrageous one.