A-Rod for 30 million vs Soriano for 18 million

[Mephistopheles]

Did Alex Rodriguez play LF/RF/DH most of his career?

 

I'm pretty sure that he played a little position called shortstop for about nine seasons.

[Yanksfan1523]

IMB.. I don't think that's career numbers.. could be wrong though.. Rocket.. why would I include defense? Both guys are corner position players. Offense is the biggest thing from corner players.

 

Again, I am looking at both career numbers and Manny has Pay-Rod beat in batting average, OBP, slugging and OPS. I am just reciting the numbers that you guys hold dear to your hearts. Using those numbers (and A-Rod's horrible post-season numbers over the last four years while Ramirez has two titles and a WS MVP), how can you say that A-Rod is better??

 

Manny plus 10 M per year? Any day of the week.

[jaxxradio]

Mephis.. with all due respect.. Manny has been anything but a butcher in the last two years. A .989 % in 2006 and a .990% this past year doesn't exactly scream "butcher". I will agree that he won't be mistaken for Bonds in his prime out in left, but he isn't as horrible as you would think. Plus, he has a solid arm.

[Mephistopheles]

Fielding percentage for an outfielder? Are you serious?

 

Manny doesn't get an error when his fat ass can't run down a ball my dead grandmother could run down.

[Derwood]

Fielding percentage for an outfielder? Are you serious?

 

Manny doesn't get an error when his fat ass can't run down a ball my dead grandmother could run down.

 

this. you can't make errors on balls you don't come within 40 feet of. see: cliff floyd

[jaxxradio]

Again.. LF is not a defensive oriented position. It's a corner position and offense is the number one thing your looking for. I agree Manny isn't the fleetest of foot out there, but since when is 37 errors over the last two years considered "good defense" at 3B? And when the heck was he ever "great" defensively at SS? He made fewer than 10 errors in a season just ONE TIME at short. Besides, A-Rod's days of playing SS are long gone. He doesn't have the skills to play there anymore.. (that's not just my opinion, but a ton of other people's opinion within the game).

[Mephistopheles]

LF is traditionally an offensive position because it's the second easiest real position to play. However, it is not the DH. You sucking in LF costs your team runs. Manny costs the Red Sox somewhere around 25-30 runs a year. The difference between Soriano and Ramirez in LF is somewhere around FORTY runs over a season. FORTY!

 

Last season Manny Ramirez was 2 runs better than Soriano. He wasn't even forty runs better than Ryan Theriot last season.

 

Defense matters.....even for a left fielder. Manny Ramirez makes Matt Murton look like Mays.

 

I never said Rodriguez was good at 3B.

 

1. Shut up about errors. They are useless.

2. Rodriguez is fairly average at 3B. The difference between average defense at 3B and -25 defense in LF is about 35 runs or so.

3. Manny Ramirez has not been as good as Rodriguez on offense of late and over their career's they're pretty interchangeable.

 

ARod eqad .350 2 of the last 3 years. Manny hasn't done that in five years. Mannys EqA was 302 this year. ARod hasn't had a season that bad since 1999.

Career EqA: 329 to 323

 

not a big enough difference to account for Mannys brickwork in the OF

[jaxxradio]

Mephis.. please list all 25-30 runs Manny cost his team this season. Can you do that? You can't because that number doesn't exsist.

 

I love how people throw numbers out of thin air like that's the "official" number of runs he gave up. I can recite a number for you.. two. The number of errors Ramirez made this season. I can recite for you another number.. six. The number of errors Soriano made this year. Does that make Manny a better fielder? Of course not, but two errors don't make him horrible.

 

As far as defense in left or right goes, I will gladly take a guy with a career OPS over 1.000 with average at best skills in left over a guy who plays solid defensively but doesn't get on base nearly enough and has horrible pitch recognition skills to be considered a lead-off hitter.

[Tracer Bullet]

LF is traditionally an offensive position because it's the second easiest real position to play. However, it is not the DH. You sucking in LF costs your team runs. Manny costs the Red Sox somewhere around 25-30 runs a year. The difference between Soriano and Ramirez in LF is somewhere around FORTY runs over a season. FORTY!

 

Last season Manny Ramirez was 2 runs better than Soriano. He wasn't even forty runs better than Ryan Theriot last season.

 

Defense matters.....even for a left fielder. Manny Ramirez makes Matt Murton look like Mays.

 

I never said Rodriguez was good at 3B.

 

1. Shut up about errors. They are useless.

2. Rodriguez is fairly average at 3B. The difference between average defense at 3B and -25 defense in LF is about 35 runs or so.

3. Manny Ramirez has not been as good as Rodriguez on offense of late and over their career's they're pretty interchangeable.

 

ARod eqad .350 2 of the last 3 years. Manny hasn't done that in five years. Mannys EqA was 302 this year. ARod hasn't had a season that bad since 1999.

Career EqA: 329 to 323

 

not a big enough difference to account for Mannys brickwork in the OF

 

I agree with you. But I'm interested in your opinion on ARod at $30m v. Manny at $20m (or whatever he's pulling in). Assuming (a) ARod at 3B, and (b) ARod could be an adequate SS.

[Mephistopheles]

Mannys decline scares me. We're also a National League team. We can't hide his aging mobility at DH (neither can Boston though).

[imb]

Mephis.. please list all 25-30 runs Manny cost his team this season. Can you do that? You can't because that number doesn't exsist.

 

I love how people throw numbers out of thin air like that's the "official" number of runs he gave up. I can recite a number for you.. two. The number of errors Ramirez made this season. I can recite for you another number.. six. The number of errors Soriano made this year. Does that make Manny a better fielder? Of course not, but two errors don't make him horrible.

 

As far as defense in left or right goes, I will gladly take a guy with a career OPS over 1.000 with average at best skills in left over a guy who plays solid defensively but doesn't get on base nearly enough and has horrible pitch recognition skills to be considered a lead-off hitter.

 

I'm not taking sides in a Manny vs. Soriano debate (that's not what this thread is about anyway), but Manny isn't a 1.000 ops guy anymore.

[jaxxradio]

Ah yes, who could forget the ever popular eqad numbers? When in doubt (you know when Manny is clearly better in his career in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS), all A-Rod fans have to pull something out there to make their boy look good.

 

Bottom line is Manny has the better numbers and he has two rings and a WS MVP. A-Rod? Great regular season player and he could go on to surpass Manny's career numbers one day, but unless he changes his attitude real quick.. he's a more talented version of Gary Sheffield, a clubhouse cancer who puts up great regular season numbers.

[Derwood]

please link to any references to A-Rod as a bad clubhouse guy.

[Derwood]

Great regular season player and he could go on to surpass Manny's career numbers one day

 

one day would be now, as A-Rod (at 32 vs. Manny at 35) already has more HR, RBI, and runs.

[javy knows my name]

Ah yes, who could forget the ever popular eqad numbers? When in doubt (you know when Manny is clearly better in his career in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS), all A-Rod fans have to pull something out there to make their boy look good.

 

Bottom line is Manny has the better numbers and he has two rings and a WS MVP. A-Rod? Great regular season player and he could go on to surpass Manny's career numbers one day, but unless he changes his attitude real quick.. he's a more talented version of Gary Sheffield, a clubhouse cancer who puts up great regular season numbers.

You really don't want to advertise an affinity for team chemistry or a contempt for metrics here. People will start calling you Joe Morgan.

EDIT: You did say OPS is a meaningful statistic so you are safe from Morgan comparisons.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Castro's Spray Chart

[imb]

Ah yes, who could forget the ever popular eqad numbers? When in doubt (you know when Manny is clearly better in his career in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS), all A-Rod fans have to pull something out there to make their boy look good.

 

Bottom line is Manny has the better numbers and he has two rings and a WS MVP. A-Rod? Great regular season player and he could go on to surpass Manny's career numbers one day, but unless he changes his attitude real quick.. he's a more talented version of Gary Sheffield, a clubhouse cancer who puts up great regular season numbers.

 

Manny has been a slightly better hitter over his career, but he's done it at a much less important defensive position. He's also almost 40 and on the downswing of his career.

 

No way in hell is he a better hitter than ARod at this point in their careers, I'd like to see you try and defend that position.

[Mephistopheles]

Ah yes, who could forget the ever popular eqad numbers? When in doubt (you know when Manny is clearly better in his career in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS), all A-Rod fans have to pull something out there to make their boy look good.

 

The difference between Manny and Rodriguez on offense is a handful of singles a season: TWELVE. Power and walks are pretty much identical. So yes, does the 12 extra singles Ramirez gets in a season make up for the FORTY runs worse he is on defense? You make the call.

 

Bottom line is Manny has the better numbers and he has two rings and a WS MVP. A-Rod? Great regular season player and he could go on to surpass Manny's career numbers one day, but unless he changes his attitude real quick.. he's a more talented version of Gary Sheffield, a clubhouse cancer who puts up great regular season numbers.

 

 

Clubhouse cancer? Are you serious? He's a good guy. He's not Sheffield. It's amazing how the NY Media can cloud someone's mind. I guess if they spew out enough crap it turns our brains to crap. ARod is nothing close to a clubhouse cancer. Would a cancer move away from a position where he won multiple gloves in the middle for his prime while someone takes SS who is reportedly a below average defender? Probably not. ARod did it just well. I've heard nothing but good things about Rodriguez the person.

 

I guess you also think Mark Prior is a clubhouse cancer.

[jaxxradio]

For the record, Manny is 35 and will be 36 in late May. A-Rod is 32 and will be 33 in late July. While it is true that it would appear that Manny is declining, remember that he missed most of September with an injury but was still able to put up good numbers. Of course if you guys watched the post-season, you saw Manny have a monster ALDS and ALCS.. proving that he is nowhere near the end of his career.

 

Are A-Rod's current numbers better than Manny's? Obviously, this past season, A-Rod had a great year and was head and shoulders above Manny. What about 2006? Manny had an OBP of 1.058 compared to A-Rod's .915 Manny also has about 300 less career AB's than A-Rod yet has drawn 210 more walks than A-Rod over his career. He gets on base at a far better clip, something the Cubs desperately need.

 

Mephis, I hate to break it to you but A-Rod isn't a good guy. Fact is, the guy is a prick in the clubhouse not only to the media, but to his teammates. BTW, he had to move to 3B.. otherwise the Yankees weren't going to sign him. A-Rod didn't move over there out of the goodness of his heart, he had no choice because the Yanks already had their man there in Captain Jeter.

 

The original question was would you want A-Rod for $30 million or Soriano for $18 million. I would take Soriano and spend the remaing $12 million on pitching and a RF or a CF. In a perfect world though, I would rather have Manny and his $20 million batting third in the lineup and taking the $10 million and spend it on pitching and a RF or a CF, preferrably a left-handed hitting RF or CF. Could you imagine.. Ramirez, Abreu, Lee and Ramirez hitting 3-6 in the lineup? Now that's BIGTIME...

[BigbadB]

Maybe Jaxx is confused with ARod and ARod's agent. ARod's agent is a cancer.

[Derwood]

yes, they made the better SS (A-Rod) move in favor of Mr. True Yankee. who's the bad guy?

[Derwood]

Maybe Jaxx is confused with ARod and ARod's agent. ARod's agent is a cancer.

 

Arod's agent is the best agent in the world at doing what an agent is paid to do

[BigbadB]

Maybe Jaxx is confused with ARod and ARod's agent. ARod's agent is a cancer.

 

Arod's agent is the best agent in the world at doing what an agent is paid to do

 

You are correct. However, that doesn't change the fact he is the very definition of cancer. :D

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Bottom line is Manny has the better numbers and he has two rings and a WS MVP. .

 

The Chicago Bears went to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman as their QB.

[Derwood]

lenny harris has a WS ring. is he better than sammy sosa?

[javy knows my name]

Mephis, I hate to break it to you but A-Rod isn't a good guy. Fact is, the guy is a prick in the clubhouse not only to the media, but to his teammates. BTW, he had to move to 3B.. otherwise the Yankees weren't going to sign him. A-Rod didn't move over there out of the goodness of his heart, he had no choice because the Yanks already had their man there in Captain Jeter.

 

The original question was would you want A-Rod for $30 million or Soriano for $18 million. I would take Soriano and spend the remaing $12 million on pitching and a RF or a CF. In a perfect world though, I would rather have Manny and his $20 million batting third in the lineup and taking the $10 million and spend it on pitching and a RF or a CF, preferrably a left-handed hitting RF or CF. Could you imagine.. Ramirez, Abreu, Lee and Ramirez hitting 3-6 in the lineup? Now that's BIGTIME...

 

If I were Arod, I'd be a jerk to the media as well. Mostly because they are guys like you who still feel like Arod has something to prove because he doesn't have a ring.