Bruce Chimes In

[CaliforniaRaisin]

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=59921

 

Bruce makes a few good points that have been keys around here for a while: a patient approach/high OBP is important and player development being important since it allows for quality league minimum players.

 

Finally, the Cubs get tired of hearing it, but they've got to start developing an offensive philosophy based on high on-base percentage. Manager Lou Piniella knows this.

 

Does Lou really know this? If so, why were guys like Theriot when he was struggling and OBPing .327 at the top of the lineup? Soriano leading off with a .337 OBP? (Yeah, Soriano might be a different situation.)

[Guest]

my guess is bruce talked to lou and lou knows this. maybe that's what he means by more versatile.

[Mephistopheles]

there is and never was nothing wrong with soriano batting leadoff with his subpar onbase percentage. Theriot on the other hand was a disaster.

[rawaction]

On one hand, Theriot was a horrible 2 hitter, but on the other. Lou had to use what he had. Theriot was probably the best option for SS for most of the year. Down the stretch you could argue for Cedeno, but he has never shown the ability to get on base as much as Theriot did. Plus, he had to balance the lineup in some way. Derosa would have been the ideal #2 hitter, but then you have a 6-7-8-9 of Jones, Theriot, Kendall/Hill/Bowen, Pitcher, which is horrible. Soriano's leadoff spot was set in stone. Lee at 3. Ramirez 4-5. Floyd, Ward, Murton were set at 4-5. Derosa, sadly, was the "power" out of the rest of the lineup. It was kinda pick you poison with #2 hitter assuming Lou wanted Derosa 6th to drive in the middle of the order. Would have been nice to have Soto up earlier, but the Cubs lineup was a mess all year.

[Wheelimus]

Yeah, while I don't like Fonzie leading off and it goes against all baseball logic that I've ever known, it isn't the biggest deal to me. His overall OPS makes him sufficient in the spot. Next year when his wheels are better we'll get better use of him being a threat when he does get on base.

 

Theriot, however, shouldn't be batting anywhere but 8th. And while I'd almost give Lou a pass on it since there weren't a lot of better options, I still would have rather seen DeRosa or Murton there more often.

[CubinNY]

there is and never was nothing wrong with soriano batting leadoff with his subpar onbase percentage.

Because of his SLG?

 

I've got to disagree.

[jersey cubs fan]

there is and never was nothing wrong with soriano batting leadoff with his subpar onbase percentage.

Because of his SLG?

 

I've got to disagree.

 

It's a misuse of his skills, and not ideal. But all in all, it's not that big of a deal. If they had some regular .380+ OBP guys around, wasting away in the 7/8 hole, I'd be upset. But given what they had, it didn't matter all that much.

 

Personally I'd rather they keep Soriano there than have Hendry go out and find another leadoff hitter to take his place.

 

What matters most is having the right 8 guys in the lineup, and that's where the Cubs struggle most.

[nilodnayr]

there is and never was nothing wrong with soriano batting leadoff with his subpar onbase percentage.

Because of his SLG?

 

I've got to disagree.

 

Because he was one of the better hitters on the team.

[nilodnayr]

not a random one, such as how a guy hits with runners in scoring position or how many runs he knocks in from third base. Those stats usually vary from year to year.

 

Nice jab there, Bruce.

[Jon]

I enjoyed that.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Bruce is sooo full of it. where does he get off writing this dribble every damn week. baseball is OBVIOUSLY not about walks. they clog bases. and he who spends the most wins the most. duh. Hendry should have him banned from the clubhouse.

 

 

[Mephistopheles]

there is and never was nothing wrong with soriano batting leadoff with his subpar onbase percentage.

Because of his SLG?

 

I've got to disagree.

 

I'll tell you what, you take 05 Freel (.271/ .371..371) and I will take 07 Soriano (.299/.337/.560) as my lead off hitter. Which team will score more runs? Soriano's obviously... So would 30 points of OBP be worth 200 points of slugging? Of course not.

[CubinNY]

there is and never was nothing wrong with soriano batting leadoff with his subpar onbase percentage.

Because of his SLG?

 

I've got to disagree.

 

It's a misuse of his skills, and not ideal. But all in all, it's not that big of a deal. If they had some regular .380+ OBP guys around, wasting away in the 7/8 hole, I'd be upset. But given what they had, it didn't matter all that much.

 

Personally I'd rather they keep Soriano there than have Hendry go out and find another leadoff hitter to take his place.

 

What matters most is having the right 8 guys in the lineup, and that's where the Cubs struggle most.

I agree with your statement given that the Cubs cannot find a better position player to bat higher in the order. I think Murton would be ok there, but he doesn't play. I suppose on the whole it doesn't make much difference one way or the other, but Soriano has to be one of the least productive hitters when he hits a homerun. And before anyone goes bat guano on me, I know that production (i.e., RBI) are related to others getting on base, but it's kind of hard to have that batting in the postion he does.

[CubinNY]

there is and never was nothing wrong with soriano batting leadoff with his subpar onbase percentage.

Because of his SLG?

 

I've got to disagree.

 

I'll tell you what, you take 05 Freel (.271/ .371..371) and I will take 07 Soriano (.299/.337/.560) as my lead off hitter. Which team will score more runs? Soriano's obviously... So would 30 points of OBP be worth 200 points of slugging? Of course not.

Nice false choice.

[NewUserName]

there is and never was nothing wrong with soriano batting leadoff with his subpar onbase percentage.

Because of his SLG?

 

I've got to disagree.

 

I'll tell you what, you take 05 Freel (.271/ .371..371) and I will take 07 Soriano (.299/.337/.560) as my lead off hitter. Which team will score more runs? Soriano's obviously... So would 30 points of OBP be worth 200 points of slugging? Of course not.

 

 

I agree with your arguement here. Wouldnt Soriano and his high Slugging Percentage be better hitting behind DLee and his .400 OBP though?

[Mephistopheles]

Who would you bat lead off? If we had say Jones leading off and moved Soriano to fifth (behind Lee and Ramirez) we would expect him to come up to the plate about 80 less times over the course of the season.

 

Anyways it doesn't matter. Moving Soriano down if it is the problem, is the least of the teams concerns. Right now we play automatic outs at SS, C, CF and RF. That's why the offense stunk. It had nothing to do with Soriano batting leadoff. It's irrelevent (which was my main point). Besides order doesn't matter much if anything. This should be the least of our concerns.

[Mephistopheles]

there is and never was nothing wrong with soriano batting leadoff with his subpar onbase percentage.

Because of his SLG?

 

I've got to disagree.

 

I'll tell you what, you take 05 Freel (.271/ .371..371) and I will take 07 Soriano (.299/.337/.560) as my lead off hitter. Which team will score more runs? Soriano's obviously... So would 30 points of OBP be worth 200 points of slugging? Of course not.

Nice false choice.

 

False choice? I did exactly what you're saying....replacing Soriano with a better OBP but not as high SLG.

 

 

You see if you choose an = (or similar OPS) where the difference in OBP is 30 points you're going to find that their EqA is higher than Sorianos. We have to keep Soriano's EqA higher by 10 or so points, otherwise you're saying we should bat a superior hitter ahead of him which is what we should do. We SHOULD NOT replace him with an inferior overall hitter who has a higher OBP. We'd hurt our run output.

[CubinNY]

Who would you bat lead off? If we had say Jones leading off and moved Soriano to fifth (behind Lee and Ramirez) we would expect him to come up to the plate about 80 less times over the course of the season.

 

Anyways it doesn't matter. Moving Soriano down if it is the problem, is the least of the teams concerns. Right now we play automatic outs at SS, C, CF and RF. That's why the offense stunk. It had nothing to do with Soriano batting leadoff. It's irrelevent (which was my main point). Besides order doesn't matter much if anything. This should be the least of our concerns.

I tottaly agree.

[CubinNY]

What I'd really like to know is if Bruce thinks the Cubs will have the financial wearwithall to increase payroll enough that the Cubs might be able to get/trade for a high dollar CF, RF, or SS.

 

It will be an intersting offseason with the Yankees in flux and the Cubs up for sale.

[rawaction]

Who would you bat lead off? If we had say Jones leading off and moved Soriano to fifth (behind Lee and Ramirez) we would expect him to come up to the plate about 80 less times over the course of the season.

 

Anyways it doesn't matter. Moving Soriano down if it is the problem, is the least of the teams concerns. Right now we play automatic outs at SS, C, CF and RF. That's why the offense stunk. It had nothing to do with Soriano batting leadoff. It's irrelevent (which was my main point). Besides order doesn't matter much if anything. This should be the least of our concerns.

 

Wouldn't the best lineup have Lee leading off, since he was the most productive hitter and therefore would get the most PAs? Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, etc.

[Mephistopheles]

your best hitter should bat second

[jersey cubs fan]

there is and never was nothing wrong with soriano batting leadoff with his subpar onbase percentage.

Because of his SLG?

 

I've got to disagree.

 

I'll tell you what, you take 05 Freel (.271/ .371..371) and I will take 07 Soriano (.299/.337/.560) as my lead off hitter. Which team will score more runs? Soriano's obviously... So would 30 points of OBP be worth 200 points of slugging? Of course not.

Nice false choice.

 

False choice? I did exactly what you're saying....replacing Soriano with a better OBP but not as high SLG.

 

 

You see if you choose an = (or similar OPS) where the difference in OBP is 30 points you're going to find that their EqA is higher than Sorianos. We have to keep Soriano's EqA higher by 10 or so points, otherwise you're saying we should bat a superior hitter ahead of him which is what we should do. We SHOULD NOT replace him with an inferior overall hitter who has a higher OBP. We'd hurt our run output.

 

You are replacing Soriano with Freel. That wasn't the request. It's a false choice.

[jersey cubs fan]

Who would you bat lead off? If we had say Jones leading off and moved Soriano to fifth (behind Lee and Ramirez) we would expect him to come up to the plate about 80 less times over the course of the season.

 

Anyways it doesn't matter. Moving Soriano down if it is the problem, is the least of the teams concerns. Right now we play automatic outs at SS, C, CF and RF. That's why the offense stunk. It had nothing to do with Soriano batting leadoff. It's irrelevent (which was my main point). Besides order doesn't matter much if anything. This should be the least of our concerns.

 

You can't seriously call RF an automatic out this year. Second highest team AVG in the NL, highest team OBP in the NL. RF was lacking, but it was in no way, shape or form an automatic out.

[nilodnayr]

Heres Baseball Musings Lineup Analyzer

 

I already loaded in the 2007 stats for the team (assumed only Murton in RF, Soto @ C hitting 350/420, and Z at pitcher). Have fun.

 

If you took Theriot out of the 2-hole, moved him to 9 and moved everyone up a spot, you increase your r/g by 0.16.

[frostwyrm]

there is and never was nothing wrong with soriano batting leadoff with his subpar onbase percentage.

 

33 home runs, 42 doubles, 5 triples, 173 hits, and a crummy 70 RBI's. Very poor use of Soriano's skills and of $136 million. The fact that he was hobbled with leg injuries for much of the season makes it even more inexcusable.