Morning after thoughts

[PrimeTime]

As He would would say. YOU PLAY, TO WIN ,THE GAME

 

http://www.aceonsports.com/uploaded_images/herm_edwards-759888.jpg

 

It's not game 4, Lou. It's game 1

[Banedon]

He shut us down. I think it was like 7IP and 0 or 1 runs we did agaisnt him

 

 

:shock: Are you being sarcastic? Honest question. Please say you are.

 

He faced us once this year. He threw 6ip and allowed 1ER. Our lineup that day had Theriot, Kendall, and Monroe, and no Soriano.

[minnesotacubsfan]

He shut us down. I think it was like 7IP and 0 or 1 runs we did agaisnt him

 

 

:shock: Are you being sarcastic? Honest question. Please say you are.

 

no hes not. that was during the "we cant hit no lefty" part of the season. luckily, and hopefully, the cubs have been hitting lefties of late fairly welll

[Banedon]

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. If you were gonna pull Z anyway in the 7th, please PH Ward for him in the 6th with the bases loaded instead.

 

Yes! Lou managed a terrible game last night. He really did.

 

I don't agree with pinch-hitting there. There were 2 outs. Still need a big 2-out hit. Webb had control issues in the inning, but I think it was more of a case of pitching around Derosa and Soto. Granted, I would have thrown Z 1 more inning, but I hate wasting PH w/ 2 outs. Chances to score aren't that great even w/ the bases loaded.

 

What was gained by not PH'ing though? One more inning of Z? To me that's not worth it. If Lou had left Z in for another inning after that, I might feel differently.

[C.C.]

He shut us down. I think it was like 7IP and 0 or 1 runs we did agaisnt him

 

 

:shock: Are you being sarcastic? Honest question. Please say you are.

 

He faced us once this year. He threw 6ip and allowed 1ER. Our lineup that day had Theriot, Kendall, and Monroe, and no Soriano.

 

That and back then any lefty could've shut us down. I think we light this guy up tonight.

[C.C.]

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. If you were gonna pull Z anyway in the 7th, please PH Ward for him in the 6th with the bases loaded instead.

 

Yes! Lou managed a terrible game last night. He really did.

 

I don't agree with pinch-hitting there. There were 2 outs. Still need a big 2-out hit. Webb had control issues in the inning, but I think it was more of a case of pitching around Derosa and Soto. Granted, I would have thrown Z 1 more inning, but I hate wasting PH w/ 2 outs. Chances to score aren't that great even w/ the bases loaded.

 

Chances to score last night were next to 'nil. If you have a chance to score there why wait? You never know if you'll get a chance like that all night. Go For it!

[moorecg]

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. If you were gonna pull Z anyway in the 7th, please PH Ward for him in the 6th with the bases loaded instead.

 

Didn't Z pitch the bottom of the 6th though?

 

Yep...and if you pulled him then it'd have been after 5 and only about 65-70 pitches...that would have been way too soon...

[Banedon]

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. If you were gonna pull Z anyway in the 7th, please PH Ward for him in the 6th with the bases loaded instead.

 

Didn't Z pitch the bottom of the 6th though?

 

Yep...and if you pulled him then it'd have been after 5 and only about 65-70 pitches...that would have been way too soon...

 

But so was pulling him after only one more inning. The point isn't what was too early, the point is did Lou know that Z was only going to be pitching one more inning. All indications are that yes, he knew ahead of time. So if that's the case, then why give up your best scoring opportunity with Z at the plate for one more inning of Z pitching? That's a bad tradeoff, especially when Webb was shutting us down.

[hardcorecubfan]

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. If you were gonna pull Z anyway in the 7th, please PH Ward for him in the 6th with the bases loaded instead.

 

Agreed, seemed everybody new he was going to be pulled. I respect "Z" bat as a pitcher, but a ph mentality was needed, it was a bit of a pressure situation for a pitcher.

[Soul]

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. If you were gonna pull Z anyway in the 7th, please PH Ward for him in the 6th with the bases loaded instead.

 

Agreed, seemed everybody new he was going to be pulled. I respect "Z" bat as a pitcher, but a ph mentality was needed, it was a bit of a pressure situation for a pitcher.

 

I'll go with that. Although Z actually hit the ball fairly well. It's not like he put up a bad AB.

 

Bah, I'm just going to say you score 1 run in 9 innings you aren't going to win many of those games.

[Banedon]

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. If you were gonna pull Z anyway in the 7th, please PH Ward for him in the 6th with the bases loaded instead.

 

Agreed, seemed everybody new he was going to be pulled. I respect "Z" bat as a pitcher, but a ph mentality was needed, it was a bit of a pressure situation for a pitcher.

 

I'll go with that. Although Z actually hit the ball fairly well. It's not like he put up a bad AB.

 

Bah, I'm just going to say you score 1 run in 9 innings you aren't going to win many of those games.

 

I get that Z is a good hitter for a pitcher...and during the regular season, I'd probably not have a lot to say about it. But in the playoffs it's a different story. He's not batting against NL Central guys here...

[Guest]

Every observation about last night's game should start with the offense (or lack thereof). Keeping Zambrano wouldn't have won it, regardless of how many more scoreless innings he'd have pitched.

 

1-19 with RISP overall and 1-20 top 5 hitters with 8 K's. No matter how you slice it, this ain't going to cut it. Marmol blew it, but the lack of offense was the story.

 

Lastly, I think a lot of fans really hopped on the sweep bandwagon. I never really believed it was going to happen. This being the case, I'd rather had a guaranteed Zambrano as the starter in Game 4 - otherwise, we had no chance.

 

I'm so upset I barely slept, however.

 

You can't say that we wouldn't have won it either way if we kept Zambrano in. Perhaps if Z throws 2 more shutout innings, our hitters approaches at the plate change. Perhaps different relievers are put in. But overall you are right, the hitting was poor all night (albeit to great pitchers). Nothing to lose sleep over though...we have the upperhand in matchups the next 3 games. Just win today and all the sudden it is a best of 3.

 

If Z goes one more, that means the Marmol/Howry portion of the pen stays in later into the game (assuming you get good Marmol which obviously we might not have seen even in the 8th inning) giving the Cubs offense more of a chance to scratch one out before guys like Dempster and Weurtz would come in.

[Guest]

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. If you were gonna pull Z anyway in the 7th, please PH Ward for him in the 6th with the bases loaded instead.

 

Didn't Z pitch the bottom of the 6th though?

 

Yep...and if you pulled him then it'd have been after 5 and only about 65-70 pitches...that would have been way too soon...

 

And yet, he was still pulled way too soon..

[kente777]

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. If you were gonna pull Z anyway in the 7th, please PH Ward for him in the 6th with the bases loaded instead.

 

Agreed, seemed everybody new he was going to be pulled. I respect "Z" bat as a pitcher, but a ph mentality was needed, it was a bit of a pressure situation for a pitcher.

 

I'll go with that. Although Z actually hit the ball fairly well. It's not like he put up a bad AB.

 

Bah, I'm just going to say you score 1 run in 9 innings you aren't going to win many of those games.

 

Z had 3 AB's. The first was a double; the second was a line out to the SS with Theriot on 2nd (should have bunted); the third was a strikeout with the bases loaded (top of the 6th).

 

And actually, Z looked pretty bad on that last AB.

[Moonlight Graham]

Why Z was not bunting Theriot to 2B with no outs is baffling to me.

[Soul]

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. If you were gonna pull Z anyway in the 7th, please PH Ward for him in the 6th with the bases loaded instead.

 

Agreed, seemed everybody new he was going to be pulled. I respect "Z" bat as a pitcher, but a ph mentality was needed, it was a bit of a pressure situation for a pitcher.

 

I'll go with that. Although Z actually hit the ball fairly well. It's not like he put up a bad AB.

 

Bah, I'm just going to say you score 1 run in 9 innings you aren't going to win many of those games.

 

Z had 3 AB's. The first was a double; the second was a line out to the SS with Theriot on 2nd (should have bunted); the third was a strikeout with the bases loaded (top of the 6th).

 

And actually, Z looked pretty bad on that last AB.

 

I know, but he did hit the ball pretty hard there. I'm really not arguing that it would have been good to PH.

 

I don't know what I'm saying -- give me a break I'm upset right now :wink:

[SouthSideRyan]

Why Z was not bunting Theriot to 2B with no outs is baffling to me.

 

Soriano's a horrible contact hitter.

[kente777]

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. If you were gonna pull Z anyway in the 7th, please PH Ward for him in the 6th with the bases loaded instead.

 

Agreed, seemed everybody new he was going to be pulled. I respect "Z" bat as a pitcher, but a ph mentality was needed, it was a bit of a pressure situation for a pitcher.

 

I'll go with that. Although Z actually hit the ball fairly well. It's not like he put up a bad AB.

 

Bah, I'm just going to say you score 1 run in 9 innings you aren't going to win many of those games.

 

Z had 3 AB's. The first was a double; the second was a line out to the SS with Theriot on 2nd (should have bunted); the third was a strikeout with the bases loaded (top of the 6th).

 

And actually, Z looked pretty bad on that last AB.

 

I know, but he did hit the ball pretty hard there. I'm really not arguing that it would have been good to PH.

 

I don't know what I'm saying -- give me a break I'm upset right now :wink:

 

I really don't think you go with a PH there. Z had only pitched 5 innings with a low pitch count. However, he probably should have kept him in one more inning.

 

It was a tough call and I'm glad Lou gets paid to make those decisions.

[Moonlight Graham]

Why Z was not bunting Theriot to 2B with no outs is baffling to me.

 

Soriano's a horrible contact hitter.

 

I am well aware of that fact, but you still have to get that runner to 3B with one out in that situation

[Roast]

Why Z was not bunting Theriot to 2B with no outs is baffling to me.

 

Soriano's a horrible contact hitter.

 

Plus Z had just hit a double in his last at bat and looked like he was fairly comfortable in the process. That is, it wasnt some awkward swing that somehow made contact and by pure luck dumped the ball into a gap.

[Soul]

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. If you were gonna pull Z anyway in the 7th, please PH Ward for him in the 6th with the bases loaded instead.

 

Agreed, seemed everybody new he was going to be pulled. I respect "Z" bat as a pitcher, but a ph mentality was needed, it was a bit of a pressure situation for a pitcher.

 

I'll go with that. Although Z actually hit the ball fairly well. It's not like he put up a bad AB.

 

Bah, I'm just going to say you score 1 run in 9 innings you aren't going to win many of those games.

 

Z had 3 AB's. The first was a double; the second was a line out to the SS with Theriot on 2nd (should have bunted); the third was a strikeout with the bases loaded (top of the 6th).

 

And actually, Z looked pretty bad on that last AB.

 

I know, but he did hit the ball pretty hard there. I'm really not arguing that it would have been good to PH.

 

I don't know what I'm saying -- give me a break I'm upset right now :wink:

 

I really don't think you go with a PH there. Z had only pitched 5 innings with a low pitch count. However, he probably should have kept him in one more inning.

 

It was a tough call and I'm glad Lou gets paid to make those decisions.

 

True. If we can just win tonight the sky will look a heck of a lot brighter. I'm kind of in a holding pattern until 9pm tonight.

 

So win tonight, Cubs.

[kente777]

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. If you were gonna pull Z anyway in the 7th, please PH Ward for him in the 6th with the bases loaded instead.

 

Agreed, seemed everybody new he was going to be pulled. I respect "Z" bat as a pitcher, but a ph mentality was needed, it was a bit of a pressure situation for a pitcher.

 

I'll go with that. Although Z actually hit the ball fairly well. It's not like he put up a bad AB.

 

Bah, I'm just going to say you score 1 run in 9 innings you aren't going to win many of those games.

 

Z had 3 AB's. The first was a double; the second was a line out to the SS with Theriot on 2nd (should have bunted); the third was a strikeout with the bases loaded (top of the 6th).

 

And actually, Z looked pretty bad on that last AB.

 

I know, but he did hit the ball pretty hard there. I'm really not arguing that it would have been good to PH.

 

I don't know what I'm saying -- give me a break I'm upset right now :wink:

 

I really don't think you go with a PH there. Z had only pitched 5 innings with a low pitch count. However, he probably should have kept him in one more inning.

 

It was a tough call and I'm glad Lou gets paid to make those decisions.

 

True. If we can just win tonight the sky will look a heck of a lot brighter. I'm kind of in a holding pattern until 9pm tonight.

 

So win tonight, Cubs.

 

Amen!

[MustangMike]

i was pretty pissed off...it took about 7 innings for me to get there though...when they didn't do jack in the 7th...then i punched the couch and yelled some "friendly" words and phrases...

 

strangely though, i was in a pretty chipper mood once the final out was recorded...and i am still in a pretty good mood today...

 

i am still trying to figure out why and how exactly, but i have a good feeling about tonight

 

murton should be in RF tonight correct?

 

What I don't understand is why Lou messed with the lineup. I heard his reason, but why mess with what worked all of septemeber. I feel like he overmanaged that game...although I don't believe its the sole reason they lost, they couldn't string 2 hits together.

[CubmanPi]

I agree with the whole idea that if Z was going to have an early exit and the bullpen is so reliable, pulling Z an inning earlier to have a PH in that spot makes sense. The best argument against it, though, is that Z was making better contact than anyone else in the order, though I'm not shocked at all that Webb adjusted and Z had no chance of keeping up.

 

As for morning after thoughts: If the offense makes an impressive showing tonight, I'll have some mildly restored optimism. Until then, the sky is still falling.

[Moonlight Graham]

Why Z was not bunting Theriot to 2B with no outs is baffling to me.

 

Soriano's a horrible contact hitter.

 

Plus Z had just hit a double in his last at bat and looked like he was fairly comfortable in the process. That is, it wasnt some awkward swing that somehow made contact and by pure luck dumped the ball into a gap.

 

I don't care how hard he hit the ball in his 1st AB. You have to bunt Theriot to 3B and hope Sori can get a ball in the air, like he did in that inning.