Matt Murton Discussion/Rant/Opinion Thread

[Drew Doughty]

why does matt murton not have a spot on a major league team? you're still making baseless claims and hoping they stick.

 

through age 24, Murton also compares to Bobby Abreu and Kirk Gibson, so that argument holds no water.

[DiamondMind]

why does matt murton not have a spot on a major league team? you're still making baseless claims and hoping they stick.

 

through age 24, Murton also compares to Bobby Abreu and Kirk Gibson, so that argument holds no water.

 

1) Because he plays for the Cubs and their parade of marginal OF's. Also, don't put words in my mouth, I'm not hoping anything sticks. It is my opinion that Murton blows, sorry, I don't need anyone else to agree with me for my opinion to stay the same. Yar, she blows matey.

 

2) I'd bet everything I own that Murton's career stats end up more similar to Ryan Church than Bobby Abreu.

[CubinNY]

why does matt murton not have a spot on a major league team? you're still making baseless claims and hoping they stick.

 

through age 24, Murton also compares to Bobby Abreu and Kirk Gibson, so that argument holds no water.

 

1) Because he plays for the Cubs and their parade of marginal OF's

 

2) I'd bet everything I own that Murton's career stats end up more similar to Ryan Church than Bobby Abreu.

I don't think anyone called you clueless, but your posts are mostly full of words strung together nonsensensically the way I'd expect anyone who give little thought to what they say would look like.

 

And I will bet everything I own that you haven't bothered to read any post previouse to your first post in this thread.

[Drew Doughty]

why does matt murton not have a spot on a major league team? you're still making baseless claims and hoping they stick.

 

through age 24, Murton also compares to Bobby Abreu and Kirk Gibson, so that argument holds no water.

 

1) Because he plays for the Cubs and their parade of marginal OF's

 

2) I'd bet everything I own that Murton's career stats end up more similar to Ryan Church than Bobby Abreu.

 

1) that doesn't answer my question. you said he doesn't have a place on any roster as a starting RF. why? Using OPS, he was slightly above average for the length of 2006 among RF, and was well above average in the second half of the year.

 

2) That wasn't the point I was trying to make. He compares to a lot of people, but he's only played one full season. It's almost useless to make any comparisons at this point.

[SouthSideRyan]

[

It also should be noted that the 7th most comparable player ever to Murton is freakin' Ryan Church. Also, since low A ball, he has never posted a SLG% over .425. And this is a corner OF we're talking about. Just sayin.

 

Similiarity scores are pretty weak in general, but using a guy's career similarity scores are worthless when he's still active. Look towards his similar through age 24 if you want something of (nominal) value. The ones that list Kirk Gibson and Bobby Abreu.

 

Also, Murton's had 1 season total where he hasn't slugged over 425. Back in '03. So I really don't know where you're coming from with that.

[DiamondMind]

why does matt murton not have a spot on a major league team? you're still making baseless claims and hoping they stick.

 

through age 24, Murton also compares to Bobby Abreu and Kirk Gibson, so that argument holds no water.

 

1) Because he plays for the Cubs and their parade of marginal OF's

 

2) I'd bet everything I own that Murton's career stats end up more similar to Ryan Church than Bobby Abreu.

I don't think anyone called you clueless, but your posts are mostly full of words strung together nonsensensically the way I'd expect anyone who give little thought to what they say would look like.

 

And I will bet everything I own that you haven't bothered to read any post previouse to your first post in this thread.

 

What do you want, an apology for not being an english major?

 

And yes, I do read threads I post in. I have as few posts as I do because I only post when I feel I want to, even if my opinion is not as well-thought out or phrased as well as others. I feel passionately about it, so I post. Maybe I should post in every thread with 'lmfao' or something, then I'll get more respect? How'd you like it if I called you nonsensical, or clueless?

 

I'd rather be bad with words than knee-jerk insulting.

Edited July 25, 2007 by DiamondMind

[DiamondMind]

Also, Murton's had 1 season total where he hasn't slugged over 425. Back in '03. So I really don't know where you're coming from with that.

 

140 AB's does not make a season, arguably. It was one time. You tell me if it was a fluke or not.

[imb]

Also, Murton's had 1 season total where he hasn't slugged over 425. Back in '03. So I really don't know where you're coming from with that.

 

140 AB's does not make a season, arguably. It was one time. You tell me if it was a fluke or not.

 

And you're judging him based on 119 bad at-bats this season. You're being really, really oblivious (obtuse? are you calling me obtuse, Dufresne?).

[DiamondMind]

Also, Murton's had 1 season total where he hasn't slugged over 425. Back in '03. So I really don't know where you're coming from with that.

 

140 AB's does not make a season, arguably. It was one time. You tell me if it was a fluke or not.

 

And you're judging him based on 119 bad at-bats this season. You're being really, really oblivious (obtuse? are you calling me obtuse, Dufresne?).

 

I'm basing my rational on his entire career, minors included, not just 2007. SS Ryan was, however, basing his on one season.

[Drew Doughty]

you're obviously not basing it on his entire career since he's been, you know, good.

[SouthSideRyan]

Also, Murton's had 1 season total where he hasn't slugged over 425. Back in '03. So I really don't know where you're coming from with that.

 

140 AB's does not make a season, arguably. It was one time. You tell me if it was a fluke or not.

 

And you're judging him based on 119 bad at-bats this season. You're being really, really oblivious (obtuse? are you calling me obtuse, Dufresne?).

 

I'm basing my rational on his entire career, minors included, not just 2007. SS Ryan was, however, basing his on one season.

 

I have no clue where you're getting this one season thing from.

 

You claimed that Murton hasn't posted a 425 SLG% since A ball.

 

I responded to inform you that he hasn't slugged below 425 since low A ball. This over seasons of 455, 487, and 455 ABs.

 

I honest to God have no clue where your numbers are coming from.

 

Ironically enough, you're arguing for me asking if the one time the numbers were different were a fluke. Well the one time the numbers were different was when he didn't slug at an okayish rate.

[Skyballer]

Is diamond dude seriously suggesting Murton is a fourth outfielder, how many fourth outfielders are career .294 hitters with a OBP of .363 along with a slg of .441?

 

Oh and saying that we like him because he's white, are you serioius?

Are you suggesting that we are all biggots on this board?

[Soul]

Is diamond dude seriously suggesting Murton is a fourth outfielder, how many fourth outfielders are career .294 hitters with a OBP of .363 along with a slg of .441?

 

I don't think anyone can say exactly what Murton will wind up being after what? 700 total career ABs?

 

I'd like to see him up here again and playing. Christ Floyd is a joke, if all we can get is Murton then fine lets do it. I'm not going to buy into this Murton is God crap yet though.

 

And this year, we need more than Matt Murton or the Crew is going to pull away, probably sooner rather than later.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'm not going to buy into this Murton is God crap yet though.

 

How many times to people have to say this isn't the case?

[SouthSideRyan]

He is buying into Son of God Floyd though.

[Lockes Eye Scar]

Every time Matt Murton gets on base, an angel gets it's wings

[Soul]

I'm not going to buy into this Murton is God crap yet though.

 

How many times to people have to say this isn't the case?

 

Calm down, it's a figure of speech.

 

"I'm not yet going to buy into the idea that Murton is a lock to be an everyday, productive outfielder for many years until I see more." Happy?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'm not going to buy into this Murton is God crap yet though.

 

How many times to people have to say this isn't the case?

 

Calm down, it's a figure of speech.

 

"I'm not yet going to buy into the idea that Murton is a lock to be an everyday, productive outfielder for many years until I see more." Happy?

 

Not particularly, it's still putting words in a lot of people's mouths. And even then, why go off the deep end when characterizing someone else's argument?

[CoolHandLuke]

I'm not going to buy into this Murton is God crap yet though.

 

How many times to people have to say this isn't the case?

 

Calm down, it's a figure of speech.

 

"I'm not yet going to buy into the idea that Murton is a lock to be an everyday, productive outfielder for many years until I see more." Happy?

 

How many people are saying that though? Everytime somebody makes a post with the thought that there is a chance that Murton could outproduce the crap we are running out there now (because ya know, he did put up very respectable numbers in almost full time duty last year as a 24 year old) someone claims that everyone thinks Murton is the next Barry Bonds and will carry humanity single handedly on his back to Nirvana. And I am sorry but every single one of Diamond's post in this thread is driving me absolutely crazy!

[Soul]

I'm not going to buy into this Murton is God crap yet though.

 

How many times to people have to say this isn't the case?

 

Calm down, it's a figure of speech.

 

"I'm not yet going to buy into the idea that Murton is a lock to be an everyday, productive outfielder for many years until I see more." Happy?

 

Not particularly, it's still putting words in a lot of people's mouths. And even then, why go off the deep end when characterizing someone else's argument?

 

How about because it's 11:30pm and I would like to save a few keystrokes, and I wrongly thought people would get my meaning instead of jumping all over me for every little thing?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

And even then, why go off the deep end when characterizing someone else's argument?

 

How about because it's 11:30pm and I would like to save a few keystrokes, and I wrongly thought people would get my meaning instead of jumping all over me for every little thing?

 

I don't think it's nitpicking, it's the crux of the entire thread. There have been many posts in this thread trying to clarify people's positions(and the misunderstandings of these positions) on Murton and the RF situation. If you're going to try to characterize someone else's position, I'd think a bit of attention isn't too much to ask considering how the thread has gone.

[TruffleShuffle]

 

There's *a few* people complaining about giving up anything with the least bit of value for someone as worthless as Kendall. There was nothing I'd consider close to a "meltdown" in that thread.

 

I fail to see how Matt Murton's career 105 OPS+ doesn't represent an upgrade on the pathetic output we're currently getting from RF/LF. Is it a guarantee Matt puts that up the rest of the season? Of course not, but it's also not a guarantee that Matt hits far worse like it seems many anti-Murtons are assuming.

 

People who want Murton up shouldn't have to add a disclaimer with every post saying they are not opposed to a serious upgrade to RF in place of Murton, but when the alternatives are the present team, or talk of going out and getting Sosa or Bobby Kielty, why bother? Is it your opinion Murton can't be a solid option against lefties even?

 

Nothing I said had anything to do with if Murton was a perceived upgrade in RF or not. You could put a trash can out there and it'd even catch a few fly balls and take a few walks.

 

The point is, is that Murton has no place on this team, or arguably any team, assuming we are talking about him playing a starting RF. His skills are not sufficient for a position that historically demands offense.

 

If he was a 4th OF for us, which he will end up being for someone anyway, I'd be fine with that. We'd be better served to ship him off for relief help or something though.

 

People just love him because he's white, red-haired, seems to be a "good guy", says all the PC things, fulfills your fantasies of a Chicago A's or Chicago Blue Jays team, and generally is just a pet project of 90% of this board.

 

All I have to do is say Murton sucks and I'm called clueless, that says it all to me. No other player on this stupid franchise generates more personal attacks than Murton. It's not even close. Now THATS clueless.

 

It also should be noted that the 7th most comparable player ever to Murton is freakin' Ryan Church. Also, since low A ball, he has never posted a SLG% over .425. And this is a corner OF we're talking about. Just sayin.

 

 

Please, enlighten us with who you'd like in RF most of the time. Assuming the Cubs don't make a trade, who should get most of the playing time in RF?

[Careless]

Cliff Floyd is the posterchild for people that sit at their computers and research stats all day about the Cubs. He's absolutely no different than marginal dime a dozen corner outfielders on other teams. No speed, no huge threat of power, no outstanding defense. Just mediocrity.

 

Better.

 

Sarcasm aside, I just dont *get* the pro Murton crowd. I just don't get it. Hey, he posts an OBP 30 points higher than his AVG, which no other Cub does, and its what Billy Beane said is great, so bla bla lets make obnoxious sigs and pictures about how Murton is getting hosed and hasn't gotten a chance ever but lets forget the 700+ AB's he's had bla bla bla.

 

564 AB's

2006 - OPS+ 103

2007 - OPS+ 74

 

He's a fourth OF.

is saying that someone writes like an untalented troll a personal attack?

[biittner77]

The Cubs themselves could make all of this easier by not chosing again and again the mediocre veteran over the talented but unproven rookie. Last night for example, why did they put Floyd in against a LH starter when they have Fox on the bench? If they brought Fox up for a look see when would they find a better opportunity to see what he could do?

 

I don't pretend for a second that Jake Fox is the answer in RF but if Murton can't play RF because he lacks power well Fox has more power than Floyd, Jones or Pagan. So why is he rotting on the bench?

 

The answer is simple. Cliff Floyd groused about not getting PT and only injuries have kept him out since. Forget Murton, forget Fox. Pagan has outperformed Floyd. Angel fricking Pagan has better numbers than Floyd.

 

The problem is that the Cubs are dumb and they pander to vets even when they don't perform.

[Derwood]

i think we can ALL agree that there was zero reason to sign cliff floyd. none.